Integration at universities

[i_hate_scams]

http://www.theage.com.au/national/backlash-feared-over-uni-students-cultural-divide-20080722-3jck.html

What are people’s experiences here with international students and vice versa?

My brother is doing a course at uni, and he is deliberately avoiding international students in group assignments. he told me they have no practical input into discussions and is often left doing their proportion of the assignment. (because what they produced was crap)

Personally, I had no issues with them at my first go at uni (approx 10 years ago now) The last time I was at uni (approx 5 years ago) I had international students from Turkey and Iraq in my group project. Most of them were ok because they were slightly older and had practical life / work experiences. This is my view what are yours?

 

[And_ROOS]

My friend used to tell me that the foreign students were all different, half worked hard the other half didnt, so people knew who to avoid when getting in groups. But that was also the same for the local contingent in the class.

Half were slackers and the other half not. So it was at the point where the hard workers usually stuck together letting the slack pr*cks bring each other down.

 

[Brad Goodman]

You're going to get as many good or bad workers teaming up with locals or internationals, it doesn't really matter. Only issue I had was the occasional language barrier with those who weren't as good at English as others, but in general my experiences were positive.

 

[ShearMagic9]

As others have said, the language barrier is the difficult part.

Wouldn't say they are slack though, the majority are actually quite the opposite and work hard because of the money their parents are paying etc.

The only slightly dodgy thing is the way some of them express their English, for example I was doing a group assignment with an international student last semester, and whilst proof reading what they had wrote, had to make multiple changes.

 

[Brad Goodman]

That's actually a good way to get out of doing much work, go in a group with interationals and offer to be the one who puts it all together without doing any of the actual research/writing.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

I avoided them when I was at Uni.
As someone said before, they rarely pulled their weight and you spent a lot of time explaining concepts to them & correcting their work.

Had a run in with a lecturer who wanted to break up my group and mix us up with exchange students. I refused, said its not my job to baby sit them, and if they're smart enough to study at this uni they're smart enough to do the assignment without the aid of us locals.

 

[eliiiiza]

He said many overseas students had told the committee: "There's not much international students can learn from Australia in terms of culture or … English. After all, the standard of English of Australian students isn't high."

What a bunch of snobs. I'm Singaporean, but I'm not an international student (have lived here for nearly five years and went to a public high school) and know more Aussies than Asians. The culture over here is definitely different, and they'd see that if they made an effort to actually integrate and go out and see the cities instead of cooping themselves in at uni.

Did anyone notice that the journo's first name is Sushi??? Hahaha.

 

[nokiacasio]

With the international students I worked with, some of them had shyness problems. Otherwise, most seemed fine. Many of them are very smart. There are many domestic students who slack off a lot. Often it's impossible to tell whether a student is international. Half of all Asians when I was at uni were actually domestic students. Many non-Asians are international students e.g. from America.

 

[tandino]

I have had a range of experiences with International students.

I'm in my 3rd year, studying Business.

Some I have worked with have been great, contributed heaps to groupwork, discussions and so on. However, there are many that have been a bitch to work with. Some of it is language difficulties, some of it is cultural issues, and some is attitude.

What I will say is that the culture of University education in Australia is very much different to that of the United States. For a start, half the population of the country lives in three cities. Therefore, there is no requirement for students to travel vast distances to attend University, because for a lot of students pretty much every course they would want to do can be provided in their home city. Therefore, unlike the US, campus is where you study, not necessarly where you live and socialise, probably having a detremential effect on intregration.

 

[nokiacasio]

I suspect that even if international students didn't exist, all the domestic students in university wouldn't integrate with themselves most likely because most students don't care about social activities. Universities like Monash University have about 40,000 students or more, so a walk on a university campus resembles a walk in the CBD.

 

[kimirocks]

I have mixed experiences. First year was thrust into a group with two girls from HK, ended up with one of them by the end of that assignment, so a happy ending. Apart from that I generally steer clear, and do group work with mates who I know are good workers, much less stressful.

 

[Smell The Glove]

What a bunch of snobs. I'm Singaporean, but I'm not an international student (have lived here for nearly five years and went to a public high school) and know more Aussies than Asians. The culture over here is definitely different, and they'd see that if they made an effort to actually integrate and go out and see the cities instead of cooping themselves in at uni.

Did anyone notice that the journo's first name is Sushi??? Hahaha.

The ones I really have no sympathy for are the one who put up housing advertisements at uni solely in Chinese or whatever so the only responses they get are from their own people. Not only is it incredibly disrespectful IMO, it doesnt say much for responses like "There's not much international students can learn from Australia in terms of culture or English."

 

[eliiiiza]

The ones I really have no sympathy for are the one who put up housing advertisements at uni solely in Chinese or whatever so the only responses they get are from their own people. Not only is it incredibly disrespectful IMO, it doesnt say much for responses like "There's not much international students can learn from Australia in terms of culture or English."

I'm at Deakin in Geelong - there aren't that many Asians here so I can't say I've ever seen a sign like that. Gosh, that is so incredibly rude and obnoxious.

I hope no one at uni thinks I'm an international student now.

 

[The Sultan]

he had a few "tokens" in our group stuff but most of the time we got little from them as "conveniently" they did not understand english, so we usulaly did the work without them.

I think the huge influx of international students though good for the schools (more money) is hurting the social structure as people tend to stick to there own kind.

 

[soupaman]

I've just been allocated an Asian student (possibly international) who like many of the Asians at Uni is incredibly quiet. I was struggling to hear her from within a metre, and I have to do a presentation to the class with her. Should be interesting.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

I clearly remember them not having a great grasp of English so essays and assignments were usually given a bit of leeway and their starting grade was a distinction, probably because they paid for their course. Some real ******s from overseas getting easy grades.

 

[BomberGal]

Most of the foreign students at Melbourne are Asians, and I had mixed experiences in group work. Sometimes I would have groups where the Asian students completely took over and wanted to do all the work, and in others it was left up to me. Probably the main issue is that they tend to be quiet and stick to themselves, but I don't think there was any trend in terms of how hard they worked in groups.

 

[Scotland]

Interesting topic.

I worked with students from South Africa, India, USA, Norway, Yugoslavia, Kenya, the Middle East and right across South-East Asia while I was at uni. I'm sure there's plenty of countries I've missed, too.

Some international students I got to know well over a 5 year period, others I met in one unit and never saw again. Some were highly competent, some were rubbish. Some had a good grasp of English, some didn't. Funnily enough those who had the best English skills and the most socially active were always the best to work with.

People (me included) get shitty with international students when you are forced to work with them (particularly if you have no relationship with them to that point) and it has a negative affect on your studies. If I couldn't read or write properly or speak in front of a group of people, I'd struggle to even get into uni, let alone pass. Chuck me in a group with 2 or 3 international students in that same boat, and I'm expected to suck it up? Sorry, I don't see the value in that.

The 'you don't get to choose your work colleagues and you'll end up working with people from different cultures' line is PC bullshit. Unless you are a card carrying KKK member, the reason people don't like working with international students is because a lot of the time they aren't up to scratch. In the working world if you aren't up to it chances are you'll be out on your arse. Why should you be carried to get there? Plenty of people go to uni to meet people from all walks of life and develop cultural awareness, and want to devote a lot of their time to helping international students - good for them, but plenty of others go there to get a qualification (& good marks) and don't need PC agendas rammed down their throats.

 

[ashley12]

International students are just like the locals. You will get some that work hard, and some that are lazy. I have had many assignments at Curtin in Perth where they force groups to have mixed backgrounds and I have done a lot of the work, well over my expected workload. However, there have been one or two where I have not done that much, instead just helping as some of these guys really know there stuff. Though I have never been with any internationals that really excel at the oral presentations...

I have no problem with having to work with internationals, whether they be African, Asian, European or American. Provided they do something resembling their fair share, then I am all for them to be in my group.

The key is to find common ground and work from there, because it is far easier to work with friends compared to strangers. Soccer was one subject that was easy to start conversation...

What I wont stand for though are people that speak languages other then English while in Australia around people who arent fluent in that language (exceptions made when Im trying to learn that language). Really annoying to be left out of a conversation, including one where one guy I didnt like was speaking Mandarin and the other guy was answering in English. It was like listening to a telephone call from one side...

Personally if my parents were going to spend mega $$$$ to send me overseas, I wouldnt sit in my room and watch local videos on YouTube, like a lot of people I used to live with on campus did...

 

[jonoman89]

Yeah, im a first year student at Melbourne and i've already learnt that you avoid doing work with international students - it's not a racist or biggotted decision, they are simply too quiet during tutorial and rarely offer any ideas which would be useful in an assignment. There are exceptions though, of course. I have found Indian and other South Asian students to be particularly hard working and quite confident in sharing ideas.

I think there should be a better standard of English needed for these students to obtain a place - it really is hard to get a decent mark when someone who can't hack basic grammar or spelling drags you down. The Uni itself should also be helping these guys get up to scratch a lot more than they are at the moment.

After 6 months at uni, i am still yet to hear an international North Asian student talk on their own free will. I honestly don't know how they pass their tute requirements.

Nothing will happen about it though, the uni's want their $$$ so they sure aint' rocking the boat.

 

[Smell The Glove]

Yeah, im a first year student at Melbourne and i've already learnt that you avoid doing work with international students - it's not a racist or biggotted decision, they are simply too quiet during tutorial and rarely offer any ideas which would be useful in an assignment. There are exceptions though, of course. I have found Indian and other South Asian students to be particularly hard working and quite confident in sharing ideas.

I think there should be a better standard of English needed for these students to obtain a place - it really is hard to get a decent mark when someone who can't hack basic grammar or spelling drags you down. The Uni itself should also be helping these guys get up to scratch a lot more than they are at the moment.

After 6 months at uni, i am still yet to hear an international North Asian student talk on their own free will. I honestly don't know how they pass their tute requirements.

Nothing will happen about it though, the uni's want their $$$ so they sure aint' rocking the boat.

Unfortunately, many universities treat them much differently than domestic students and are instructed as such. I have been in more than one course in which lecturers have openly stated that international students from a non-English speaking background are not to be held to the same assessment requirements as native English speaking students. It makes me sick. Particularly because you always also have the foreign students who actually bother to work hard on their English language and writing skills. It isnt fair on them, or on the rest of the class.

 

[BomberGal]

Yeah, im a first year student at Melbourne and i've already learnt that you avoid doing work with international students - it's not a racist or biggotted decision, they are simply too quiet during tutorial and rarely offer any ideas which would be useful in an assignment. There are exceptions though, of course. I have found Indian and other South Asian students to be particularly hard working and quite confident in sharing ideas.

I think there should be a better standard of English needed for these students to obtain a place - it really is hard to get a decent mark when someone who can't hack basic grammar or spelling drags you down. The Uni itself should also be helping these guys get up to scratch a lot more than they are at the moment.

After 6 months at uni, i am still yet to hear an international North Asian student talk on their own free will. I honestly don't know how they pass their tute requirements.

Nothing will happen about it though, the uni's want their $$$ so they sure aint' rocking the boat.

Four years at Melbourne and I don't think I met a foreign student who couldn't speak English properly.

As for speaking in tutes, who cares? At least they go - I rarely did! (Many courses don't have a requirement.) Tutes are pointless anyway. And the ones I did go to, it was always the Asians with all the answers...the white kids thought they were too cool for school!

I suggest you spend a bit longer at Melbourne than one semester to get a proper grasp of the way it works.

 

[fairdinkum]

Four years at Melbourne and I don't think I met a foreign student who couldn't speak English properly.

As for speaking in tutes, who cares? At least they go - I rarely did! (Many courses don't have a requirement.) Tutes are pointless anyway. And the ones I did go to, it was always the Asians with all the answers...the white kids thought they were too cool for school!

I suggest you spend a bit longer at Melbourne than one semester to get a proper grasp of the way it works.

No tute requirements? Why the hell would anyone bother turning up?
My lectures are recorded, so I never go to any past week 1. If I didn't have to go to tutes, I'd be enjoying 7-day weekends from week 2 through to exams.

 

[BomberGal]

No tute requirements? Why the hell would anyone bother turning up?
My lectures are recorded, so I never go to any past week 1. If I didn't have to go to tutes, I'd be enjoying 7-day weekends from week 2 through to exams.

In my course - science - attendance at some tutes in 1st year is recorded, but it's only used if your mark at the end of the year is, say, 49, then they check your attendance. And 2nd year tutes are not even every week, and they're generally just problem solving. And there were no tutes past second year.

My lectures were not recorded, and you'd miss a hell of a lot of information if you didn't go - I tried it for some time and found it nearly impossible to understand fairly complex information. Not to mention the classes where lecture notes weren't provided and there's no set reading, but a lecturer just presenting things and explaining as he goes.

Science students don't get the luxury of not going to uni anyway - if you miss even one prac (at least two a week) without a med cert, you fail the subject.

 

[Smell The Glove]

Four years at Melbourne and I don't think I met a foreign student who couldn't speak English properly.

As for speaking in tutes, who cares? At least they go - I rarely did! (Many courses don't have a requirement.) Tutes are pointless anyway. And the ones I did go to, it was always the Asians with all the answers...the white kids thought they were too cool for school!

I suggest you spend a bit longer at Melbourne than one semester to get a proper grasp of the way it works.

And everywhere else it works exactly as jonoman89 said.