Intelligent Design or Evolution?

[H2F]

There is a difference between getting relief from a ailment through thinking you are being healed (whether through praying or placebo pills) and gaining regular health benefit simply from believing in the supernatural.

I am a Reiki Channel and use it quite often on people I care about. My hands feel physical pain at times when I am working on someone.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

I am a Reiki Channel and use it quite often on people I care about. My hands feel physical pain at times when I am working on someone.

My eyeballs feel physical pain every time I read one of your posts, any chance you could channel some of that energy in to them?

 

[skipper kelly]

I am a Reiki Channel and use it quite often on people I care about. My hands feel physical pain at times when I am working on someone.

where is your 3rd eye?

 

[H2F]

My eyeballs feel physical pain every time I read one of your posts, any chance you could channel some of that energy in to them?

Maybe you need to try and perform some anuloma viloma breathing or something.

 

[Richo83]

I am a Reiki Channel and use it quite often on people I care about. My hands feel physical pain at times when I am working on someone.

That kinda talk doesn't help the new age ID argument, just paints you and your friends as a bunch of froot loops.

My eyeballs feel physical pain every time I read one of your posts, any chance you could channel some of that energy in to them?

Yeah, and now you know how I feel whenever I read something like: "what if we're god"?

FFS.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

Yeah, and now you know how I feel whenever I read something like: "what if we're god"?

FFS.

Do you do kids parties?

 

[Karl Pilkington]

There is a difference between getting relief from a ailment through thinking you are being healed (whether through praying or placebo pills) and gaining regular health benefit simply from believing in the supernatural.

Ok I've read the article, to paraphrase:

A whole shitload of academics, doctors and psychologists agree faith aids healing. They go into detail about the different lobes in our brain and the non-exact phrase used is:

"Essentially, from a scientific point of view, our bodies are hardwired for faith and religion"

Of course, some disagree with that exact wording, in that if they are hardwired for faith, then someone must have hardwired them. But the general consensus is that faith plays an important role in health, and is beneficial.

But they make the distinction that 'science' doesn't look for evidence or lack of evidence of a creator, and that the two disciplines of religion and science are completely separate, only that its a shame that some devout religionists, and some fans of science are making a war out of it"

I'm sure you'll agree, my point about faith being good for our health is fairly well backed up. I don't think its divinity at work though, necessarily, its just that the positive thinking and calmness that faith brings out in humans is beneficial to our health.

Here's the article:

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1879016,00.html

So like I said before - if we assume that evolution is the sole cause of human existence today - why have we evolved to be hardwired/predisposed towards faith? Judging by this article and the many decorated and certified academics and scientists quoted - faith is not a social construct at all and is in fact a fundamental part of being human.

So, why is that?

 

[Niximus]

Ok I've read the article, to paraphrase:

A whole shitload of academics, doctors and psychologists agree faith aids healing. They go into detail about the different lobes in our brain and the non-exact phrase used is:

"Essentially, from a scientific point of view, our bodies are hardwired for faith and religion"

Of course, some disagree with that exact wording, in that if they are hardwired for faith, then someone must have hardwired them. But the general consensus is that faith plays an important role in health, and is beneficial.

But they make the distinction that 'science' doesn't look for evidence or lack of evidence of a creator, and that the two disciplines of religion and science are completely separate, only that its a shame that some devout religionists, and some fans of science are making a war out of it"

I'm sure you'll agree, my point about faith being good for our health is fairly well backed up. I don't think its divinity at work though, necessarily, its just that the positive thinking and calmness that faith brings out in humans is beneficial to our health.

Here's the article:

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1879016,00.html

So like I said before - if we assume that evolution is the sole cause of human existence today - why have we evolved to be hardwired/predisposed towards faith? Judging by this article and the many decorated and certified academics and scientists quoted - faith is not a social construct at all and is in fact a fundamental part of being human.

So, why is that?

If we're 'hardwired for faith', why are their atheists? Did the I in ID short a circuit?

Regardless we're not programmed for it at all, just vulnerable to it. We are conscious beings and aware of our own mortality, it is completely understandable that some can't accept the cessation of their consciousness and search for an escape route. That route is through fantasy, into a world beyond death, where they'll see their loved ones once more, where the wrongs of the world are righted. It comforts them. It feels good to them.

We are no more 'hard wired' to have faith than we are 'hard wired' to take drugs.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

]

So like I said before - if we assume that evolution is the sole cause of human existence today - why have we evolved to be hardwired/predisposed towards faith? Judging by this article and the many decorated and certified academics and scientists quoted - faith is not a social construct at all and is in fact a fundamental part of being human.

So, why is that?

I do not disagree that spirituality is probably beneficial to humans, but I do not understand why you think that there is some sort of contradiction in the fact that evolution is the best possible explanation for speciation, adaptation etc. and humans maintaining spirituality. There is no reason why natural forces would not have selected for spirituality if it is beneficial. I do not see the problem.

 

[H2F]

I do not disagree that spirituality is probably beneficial to humans, but I do not understand why you think that there is some sort of contradiction in the fact that evolution is the best possible explanation for speciation, adaptation etc. and humans maintaining spirituality. There is no reason why natural forces would not have selected for spirituality if it is beneficial. I do not see the problem.

I think what Karl is saying is that we may possibly be on a spiritual journey (well that is what I believe) and that having a spiritual awareness, so to speak, is soothing to us.

 

[Fire Storm]

Evolution? Never proven. Ever.

 

[Chief]

There are a number of observed examples. There is hard evidence. You show your ignorance when you state otherwise.

 

[Chief]

So like I said before - if we assume that evolution is the sole cause of human existence today - why have we evolved to be hardwired/predisposed towards faith? Judging by this article and the many decorated and certified academics and scientists quoted - faith is not a social construct at all and is in fact a fundamental part of being human.

So, why is that?

a) We aren't hard wired for faith. We just hang a few quirks and learned behaviours together and call it faith.

b) The fact that more and more people are marking "no religion" on their census forms tells us that people are rejecting at least the organised aspect of faith.

b) Even if we accept the argument that we are - how on Earth does it follow that this could not be an evolved trait? Your logic is flawed.

 

[FOOOOTY]

where is your 3rd eye?

Your minds vision. (its not actually an "eye")

 

[FOOOOTY]

Time is a human construct/perspective.

Exactly.

We exist in 4 dimensions that we can observe, but only have the ability to move in 3 dimensions left/right, up/down, forward/back, is it so hard to beleive that there could be intelligence that has the ability to move through space/time a dimension we can see exists but can't effect ourselves?

That said debating this question is about as productive as a pair of ants crawling over a dictionary and trying to understand where the giants that crush them all day came from.

And those that belittle others for beleiving in God/A Creator well i sure as hell hope you have achieved omnipotence cos your going down the same path religious zealots have in persecuting those that question the certainty in organised religion as heretics.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

a) We aren't hard wired for faith. We just hang a few quirks and learned behaviours together and call it faith.

Incorrect. We are literally wired for it, our brains are physically wired for it. At least according to that article and the plethora of academics it quoted.

b) The fact that more and more people are marking "no religion" on their census forms tells us that people are rejecting at least the organised aspect of faith.

I don't like the organised aspect of faith either. Agree with you on this one.

b) Even if we accept the argument that we are - how on Earth does it follow that this could not be an evolved trait? Your logic is flawed.

I don't really think its a matter of "if" mate, its just a scientific fact.

I'm asking why we would have evolved to be hardwired for it? Obviously, there are great health benefits, scientifically proven ones, associated with faith. So therefore, every science fanatic should realistically have faith in something, to reap the scientifically proven benefits, no?

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Your minds vision. (its not actually an "eye")

Its the pineal gland.

 

[Niximus]

Incorrect. We are literally wired for it, our brains are physically wired for it. At least according to that article and the plethora of academics it quoted.

As I said, we do things that feel good. For the majority of the time that was an evolutionary advantage. It feels good to have sex, thus you reproduce. It feels good to eat, thus you get energy.

Nowadays though not everything that feels good is good for you. The reward system in our brain for food is not a benefit when it's telling us to keep eating fatty food. Drugs induce pleasant feelings in us and so people take them.

Faith is no different, it is a comfort to some people, it gives them a good feeling. IMO it is not much different to a drug and the religious are just addicts.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

As I said, we do things that feel good. For the majority of the time that was an evolutionary advantage. It feels good to have sex, thus you reproduce. It feels good to eat, thus you get energy.

Nowadays though not everything that feels good is good for you. The reward system in our brain for food is not a benefit when it's telling us to keep eating fatty food. Drugs induce pleasant feelings in us and so people take them.

Faith is no different, it is a comfort to some people, it gives them a good feeling. IMO it is not much different to a drug and the religious are just addicts.

Except faith doesn't hurt you. In fact, quite the opposite. Its much more similar with regular cardio exercise than drugs.

 

[Niximus]

Except faith doesn't hurt you. In fact, quite the opposite. Its much more similar with regular cardio exercise than drugs.

That depends on whether you consider belief in mythological beings as a healthy mental state.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

That depends on whether you consider belief in mythological beings as a healthy mental state.

I don't believe in any particular mythological beings, I'm just open to the idea of them, but I believe in exploration of inner space through meditation, which has scientifically proven health benefits.

The problem with some people is they've drawn a line in the sand between science and faith and act like we have to choose one or the other, as if either is capable of ever explaining everything. The search for knowledge and wisdom is the important thing, not pointing to evidence of relatively minor details and saying "Look! You're all idiots" - both sides are guilty of this.

 

[FIGJAM]

That depends on whether you consider belief in mythological beings as a healthy mental state.

I take exception at drawing the conclusion that belief in an ultimate 'being' is the equivalent of believing in "mythological" or fictional entities.

For example, you and I are simply organised energy, made of atoms. There is some ambiguity over this claim, but it is stated that the human body regenerates every seven years; in that it essentially sheds all of its atoms.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_the_human_body_regenerate_every_7_years

In effect, we are left with the question; what is the you that remains?

In the event that atoms come and go in a transient manner, then we (meaning our being) are (IMHO of course) not affiliated with that matter. The being (IMO) is a non-physical state. But this non-physical state has influence over the dense physical matter that forms us and that we observe.

Extending this outwards, the 'Being' of the All that is is also not affiliated with matter, but it also has influence over this matter.

Comparing this point of view to tooth faries, goblins and Santa Claus is a straw man argument at best.

 

[Niximus]

I take exception at drawing the conclusion that belief in an ultimate 'being' is the equivalent of believing in "mythological" or fictional entities.

For example, you and I are simply organised energy, made of atoms. There is some ambiguity over this claim, but it is stated that the human body regenerates every seven years; in that it essentially sheds all of its atoms.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_the_human_body_regenerate_every_7_years

In effect, we are left with the question; what is the you that remains?

In the event that atoms come and go in a transient manner, then we (meaning our being) are (IMHO of course) not affiliated with that matter. The being (IMO) is a non-physical state. But this non-physical state has influence over the dense physical matter that forms us and that we observe.

Extending this outwards, the 'Being' of the All that is is also not affiliated with matter, but it also has influence over this matter.

Comparing this point of view to tooth faries, goblins and Santa Claus is a straw man argument at best.

Take exception all you like

Mythology

The word mythology (from Greek( mythologia = mythos + logos) ) refers to a body of folklore/myths/legends that a particular culture believes to be true and that often use the supernatural to interpret natural events and to explain the nature of the universe and humanity. ...

Just because it isn't ancient history doesn't stop it from being mythology.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Take exception all you like

Mythology

The word mythology (from Greek( mythologia = mythos + logos) ) refers to a body of folklore/myths/legends that a particular culture believes to be true and that often use the supernatural to interpret natural events and to explain the nature of the universe and humanity. ...

Just because it isn't ancient history doesn't stop it from being mythology.

Meditation, as an example, doesn't fit that description at all though.

 

[Niximus]

Meditation, as an example, doesn't fit that description at all though.

He was offended that belief in an 'ultimate being' was regarded as mythology.

You would have to go deeper with meditation, are you simply relaxing? Are you trying to connect with some supenatural force?