Intelligent Design or Evolution?

[evo]

I take exception at drawing the conclusion that belief in an ultimate 'being' is the equivalent of believing in "mythological" or fictional entities.

You don't believe in an 'ultimate being' like the one portrayed in the videolink you posted though do you, Figgy?That was just absurd.

"God is like electricity,but he loves us" "God is all around,but he sent us free will" "God is ineffeble and man can never know his nature, but he gave us souls" etc.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Atheism is good for some aspects of mental health.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=82c88cd709652a9a24d1a902d8106a8f

Sorry, I could not provide a link to the full article.

 

[BomberGal]

you may as well start a poll saying "The Composition of the Moon: Rock or Cheese?"

Yeah, I almost didn't want to dignify the poll with a response.

Still, it's good to see the ignorant ones come out, we know who to steer clear of in future.

 

[FIGJAM]

Mythology

The word mythology (from Greek( mythologia = mythos + logos) ) refers to a body of folklore/myths/legends that a particular culture believes to be true and that often use the supernatural to interpret natural events and to explain the nature of the universe and humanity. ...

Before people get a hold of mythology and either take it literally or take it as a fairy tale, the purpose of it is to convey specific symbolic meanings.

There is a vast chasm between fairy tales and mythology!

 

[BomberGal]

oh is that all it is?

What on Earth is science doing trying to figure out this incredible thing we call the brain, then?

No wonder they haven't been able to work out a thing about this amazing thing after all this time. They just need to stop reading into anything and realise it is ........ as above bold.

If you think a bunch of chemical reactions and electrical impulses is simple, then it's no wonder you don't believe in evolution, and need something simple like a magic creator. These things are incredibly complex, amazing, beautiful.

I am a scientist. I have read and obsessed over it my whole life. This is why I can speak outside of your immature and very low-level scientific knowledge.

I don't mean to be rude, but I can't be bothered dumming my opinions down, so as to spell out university level scientific explanations to you, like you are clearly seeking.

I would give Nick a bit more credit.

If you're a scientist I'm handing back my degree. Which is fine because we all know you're not. I did get a laugh though, cheers.

The irony in all of this is that modern day science is keeping alive the idiots that natural selection would otherwise kill off.

 

[Niximus]

Before people get a hold of mythology and either take it literally or take it as a fairy tale, the purpose of it is to convey specific symbolic meanings.

There is a vast chasm between fairy tales and mythology!

So you agree it's mythology now? You've ceased to take exception?

Just because you take it literally, it doesn't suddenly differentiate it from other myths.

You no doubt write off as mythology and fairy tales beliefs that people hold (or held in past times) just a dearly as you hold yours.

There is no chasm, they are separated only by your belief.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Just thought I would stir the pot a bit. I realise these quotes have been hand picked in order to support the views of the person who made this video, but anyway.

[YOUTUBE]bzHiXZgGJqg[/YOUTUBE]

Note: I posted this video in order to generate some debate and not belittle anybody.

 

[likka]

There is a vast chasm between fairy tales and mythology!

Both are just made up stories.

 

[Sloth]

Who created the advanced beings?

I don't know.

How did you detect a these 'souls'?

I can feel mine.

what does it feel like?

 

[BomberGal]

Exactly.

We exist in 4 dimensions that we can observe, but only have the ability to move in 3 dimensions left/right, up/down, forward/back, is it so hard to beleive that there could be intelligence that has the ability to move through space/time a dimension we can see exists but can't effect ourselves?

I'm no physicist, but most physicists will now tell you we exist in far more than four dimensions.

Anyway all this ****ing talk about the universe has shit all to do with evolution vs ID. Evolution makes no attempt to explain HOW the planet, much less life, got here.

 

[FIGJAM]

You don't believe in an 'ultimate being' like the one portrayed in the videolink you posted though do you, Figgy?That was just absurd.

"God is like electricity,but he loves us" "God is all around,but he sent us free will" "God is ineffeble and man can never know his nature, but he gave us souls" etc.

Yes, I do believe in an ultimate being that is aware. One which we are intimately connected to.

The 'electricty' simile is a reference to what is known as pranic energy. We cannot physically measure it, because it is 'aphysical' (I like inventing words!). It is a simple explanation for our simple heads as to how the zero point energy unfolds into matter, and it works kinda like electricity.

To put things into perspective, the 'zero point' as labelled by today's science (known as a laya centre in Brahmanism) is indeed something worth pondering. The amount of energy contained within 1 cubic centimetre of what may be perceived as empty space can boil dry all of the Earth's water (source Dr Karl from JJJ ). But this has been known for thousands of years long before the materialist dialectic.

There is a obviously well of untapped energy that is the source of everything. Given that we are organised energy, why is it presumed that this energy is not organised?

The current paradigm that everything is random and accidental is one of opinion only.

As for the source of All caring in an emotional level; why wouldn't it? We are an extension of the whole. Do you not want your family to succeed? Do you not want for them to realise their full potential?

 

[H2F]

If you think a bunch of chemical reactions and electrical impulses is simple, then it's no wonder you don't believe in evolution, and need something simple like a magic creator. These things are incredibly complex, amazing, beautiful.

bwahahaha i was saying how amazingly complex the brain is and how we know nothing about it you retread.

i also have said a dozen times over that I strongly believe in evolution, but that it is not the entire picture.

you must be ugly for sure, because the only women who do not bow to me are ugly ones.

 

[FIGJAM]

So you agree it's mythology now? You've ceased to take exception?

I originally took exception to your presumption that a "belief" in a higher force necessarily resulted from a blind acceptance of mythology. It's not true in many instances.

My second post was merely educating you about mythology and its historical purpose. They didn't have Wiki 3000 years ago!

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Yeah, I almost didn't want to dignify the poll with a response.

Still, it's good to see the ignorant ones come out, we know who to steer clear of in future.

The question is pretty stupid actually, because evolution and ID aren't mutually exclusive.

It is akin to asking:

Which is a dog: Kelpie or Labrador?

 

[Niximus]

I originally took exception to your presumption that a "belief" in a higher force necessarily resulted from a blind acceptance of mythology. It's not true in many instances.

My second post was merely educating you about mythology and its historical purpose. They didn't have Wiki 3000 years ago!

When someone is talking about faith (in the context it is used for this thread), they are talking about belief in a mythology. Whether that is an organised mythology taken from a text or whether it's bits and pieces from all over like a couple of posters here seem to have faith in.

 

[FIGJAM]

When someone is talking about faith (in the context it is used for this thread), they are talking about belief in a mythology. Whether that is an organised mythology taken from a text or whether it's bits and pieces from all over like a couple of posters here seem to have faith in.

Fine, but you are using it as a broad brush to label anyone who is 'higher power' minded as a crackpot.

There are plenty of blind believers, both at a theological and scientific level.

 

[BomberGal]

The question is pretty stupid actually, because evolution and ID aren't mutually exclusive.

It is akin to asking:

Which is a dog: Kelpie or Labrador?

It's been said about fifty million times in this thread that ID requires a creator, evolution does not. ID also requires that gaps be filled by this creator. There are not 'gaps' in evolution.

 

[Niximus]

Fine, but you are using it as a broad brush to label anyone who is 'higher power' minded as a crackpot.

There are plenty of blind believers, both at a theological and scientific level.

Now you're putting words into my mouth.

I simply stated that whether or not faith is harmful depends on whether you consider belief in mythological beings to be a mentally healthy state.

We seem to agree on a higher power being a mythological being and so the rest is up to your discretion.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

It's been said about fifty million times in this thread that ID requires a creator, evolution does not. ID also requires that gaps be filled by this creator. There are not 'gaps' in evolution.

They aren't mutually exclusive though - the point is, neither is capable of cancelling the other out. They are not even a part of the same argument.

It isn't an either/or sitution, they are separate questions.

 

[BomberGal]

bwahahaha i was saying how amazingly complex the brain is and how we know nothing about it you retread.

Actually, you seem to be giving off the impression that chemical reactions and electrical impulses are what is simple and that therefore there must be something more to the brain.

 

[BomberGal]

They aren't mutually exclusive though - the point is, neither is capable of cancelling the other out. They are not even a part of the same argument.

It isn't an either/or sitution, they are separate questions.

No, they're not.

ID says there are gaps. (Which require the creator to fill in.)

There are no gaps.

 

[evo]

There is a obviously well of untapped energy that is the source of everything. Given that we are organised energy, why is it presumed that this energy is not organised?

"The mind" of Brahman is supposed to be poetic rather than literal (IMO of course)

The current paradigm that everything is random and accidental is one of opinion only.

Seems to me that is a small subsection of the paradigm. The majority of humans appear to believe something akin to what you do ie "design" "a higher purpose" a "watchful supreme being" etc.

As for the source of All caring in an emotional level; why wouldn't it?

Ummm,because 'electricity' doesn't care? "Energy" doesn't care? 'Nature' doesn't care? (These are his analogies from the video,not mine)

We are an extension of the whole. Do you not want your family to succeed? Do you not want for them to realise their full potential?

Could you make this "energy" any more anthropomorphisized if you tried?

But then you complain if anyone makes charicture of it.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

No, they're not.

ID says there are gaps. (Which require the creator to fill in.)

There are no gaps.

Hmm, you're very close-minded on the question and I don't think I'll get anything out of continuing this with you.

No offense intended.

But just think about this for a minute:

Taking two separate questions, one of which has gaps and the other which doesn't (according to you) and asking people to choose one or the other, does not mean the questions are mutually exclusive.

 

[evo]

Its the pineal gland.

Descartes board.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

The question is pretty stupid actually, because evolution and ID aren't mutually exclusive.

It is akin to asking:

Which is a dog: Kelpie or Labrador?

I would say you are both right and wrong. Those who support ID do allow for microevolution, but they are steadfastly against macroevolution.