Intermittent fasting

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Bazzar said:
Check this out, Peter Attia is a chronic self experimenter who is/was a distance swimmer and current distant bike rider who is into everything like keto, fasting, lchf etc. The bloke is brilliant. http://eatingacademy.com/
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Thanks, there are some cracking articles on his site. I need to train for Ironman instead of Sprint/Olympic!
 

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ablett said:
It breaks the fast but doesn't effect cell autography n stimulates ketone release when MCT oil is added
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In what way is the fast broken?
saj_21 said:
thanks.



From Brad Pilon's Eat Stop Eat

In the morning start your day with a large glass of water. Black coffee and tea are also
allowed during a fast. You may also find diet colas useful, and don’t worry about
having a small amount of artificial sweeteners during your fast, in my opinion the
health benefits of fasting far outweigh any worry about the small and infrequent
intake of artificial sweeteners.

Also, the current buzz about aspartame causing giant insulin spikes is not founded in
science. There have been multiple studies on aspartame and its effect on insulin and
growth hormone and they have all found no negative effects on either hormone.191,192
My personal opinion is that you’re not missing out on anything by avoiding
aspartame, so when possible and within reason, make non-artificially-sweetened
choices (especially when you are not fasting); however, I do not see them as being
detrimental to your fasting.

The other common misconception about coffee, teas and colas is that caffeine causes
giant increases in insulin. While it is true that caffeine can cause an increased insulin
response to large doses of carbohydrates (caffeine + carbs = more insulin release than
carbs alone).193,194 I have never seen any research suggesting that caffeine alone,
without any carbs, causes insulin release.

From a metabolic point of view, these drinks should not interfere with your fasts.

Q: What is your opinion on taking Branched Chain Amino Acids during a fast?
The branched chain amino acids leucine, Isoleucine, and valine are a family of
essential amino acids that are extremely important to muscle physiology – including
growth and repair. The BCAAs (specifically leucine) act through a protein-signaling
pathway regulated by something called mTor to initiate the process of protein
synthesis, which at time can initiate the process of muscle growth. While some people
recommend BCAAs during a fast to prevent muscle growth, I see some issues with
this suggestion.

To start, there is little evidence to suggest muscle loss should be a concern during
short term fasting. Secondly, mTOR is not exclusive to muscle, it is found in almost
every cell in the body, and plays an important role in dozens of processes within the
human body. The main reason I do not recommend BCAA intake during a fast is that
mTOR is a strong negative regulator of autophagy245 (see the chapter on ‘cellular
cleansing), and even small doses of BCAA can increase insulin (another negative
regulator of autophagy) and initiate mTOR driven decreases in autophagy.154 So there
seems to be very little benefit to BCAA supplementation during a fast, considering that
you may be eliminating the health benefits of the fast. Better to keep your BCAAs to
the end of your fast and during the times you are eating.

Small extract from the cellular cleansing chapter

The strong connection between autophagy and fasting is due to the fact that the
principle signal to turn up the autophagy dial is the act of entering the fasted state.
And if fasting is the signal to turn on autophagy, then eating is the signal to turn it
off. Even small amounts of glucose or amino acids are able to inhibit autophagy, as
amino acids together with the hormone insulin are its principle negative regulators.153

And it doesn’t take a feast to negatively affect autophagy. Recent research that was
published in 2010 found a 3 gram dose of the branched chain amino acid Leucine
combined with 7 grams of EAA (10 grams of total amino acids) was enough to
decrease autophagy markers in otherwise fasting humans154. So even a small meal in
the middle of a fast may be enough to blunt the increased autophagic processes
associated with fasting.

The upregulation of autophagy seems to be unique to the fasting state, as well as
possibly the exercised state, and it can easily be undone by even a small ingestion of
food, specifically protein / amino acids.
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I can't see anything in this article that explains how a fat only meals breaks the fast?
 
showdownhero said:
In what way is the fast broken?

I can't see anything in this article that explains how a fat only meals breaks the fast?
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I did say there was no direct reference to fats affect on fasting, but consuming calories will disrupt the fasting process and we all agree the best option as opposed to protein and carbs.
 
For those playing along at home, i emailed Brad Pilon re fats during a fast. I basically sent through what i posted here and a quick summary of our discussion. I asked How would eating 50g of coconut oil affect your fast?

His brief response (but a reply none the less)

It doesn't seem to effect the hormonal profile, but you'd have an additional 50 grams of fat to work through during your fast that you didnt' have before.
 
saj_21 said:
For those playing along at home, i emailed Brad Pilon re fats during a fast. I basically sent through what i posted here and a quick summary of our discussion. I asked How would eating 50g of coconut oil affect your fast?

His brief response (but a reply none the less)

It doesn't seem to effect the hormonal profile, but you'd have an additional 50 grams of fat to work through during your fast that you didnt' have before.
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So what I take from that is fat only meals can be viewed as a negative or positive depending on your goals. If autophagy is your goal then any meal even fat only is not beneficial but if you're using IF for aesthetics then it actually improves fat loss.
 
showdownhero said:
So what I take from that is fat only meals can be viewed as a negative or positive depending on your goals. If autophagy is your goal then any meal even fat only is not beneficial but if you're using IF for aesthetics then it actually improves fat loss.
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What i take from it, if you are really looking to use IF to burn through body fat and drop weight then eating fat only meals during a fast is extra calories you will have to burn off. If you use IF for the health benefits then consuming fats will stop the autography process (the cell clean up). I'd say do what works for you, for some that will include fat only meals for others it may not work.
 
saj_21 said:
What i take from it, if you are really looking to use IF to burn through body fat and drop weight then eating fat only meals during a fast is extra calories you will have to burn off. If you use IF for the health benefits then consuming fats will stop the autography process (the cell clean up). I'd say do what works for you, for some that will include fat only meals for others it may not work.
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Protein effects Autography , not fat, that's one of the benefits of a bulletproof coffee in the morning is it doesn't effect Autography yets provides fullness n energy to get you thru the day.
 
saj_21 said:
What i take from it, if you are really looking to use IF to burn through body fat and drop weight then eating fat only meals during a fast is extra calories you will have to burn off. If you use IF for the health benefits then consuming fats will stop the autography process (the cell clean up). I'd say do what works for you, for some that will include fat only meals for others it may not work.
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Fat only meals improve the burning of body fat.
 

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Bazzar said:
Some people think celery and watermelon does.
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Some claim that isn't strictly true.

Theoretically, the more negative-calorie foods I eat, the more weight I lose! How great is that? Now all I need is a job that pays me more the less I do and a bank account that gets bigger the more I spend!

Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that way. Here’s why: When nutritionists estimate how many calories you should eat, we’re already taking into consideration how many calories you burn chewing and digesting your food. The “negative-calorie diet” essentially subtracts those calories twice. That’s the kind of accounting that will make you bounce checks (or, get you a really good job on Wall Street).
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http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/he...g/negative-calorie-foods#sthash.fUYoF9dO.dpuf
 
Bazzar said:
Some people think celery and watermelon does.
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Even if that was the case, they aren't 100% fat.

Bottom line is to burn more net calories don't eat during a fast, particularly if its a short fast. Longer fasts 36 hours plus then consuming fats could be advantageous to induce more fat burning.
 
middy said:
Hey guys,

Would a serve of Amino Energy be considered breaking the fast?
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10 grams BCAA before a workout and 10 grams post workout would be fine. Try not to ingest them if you aren't weight training whilst fasted.
 
saj_21 said:
It's not the be all and end all, but its a very key factor.
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It is near impossible to accurate count calories & there is many factors/variables that cause inconsistencies each time you eat/consume food.
When you read a label you presume it's accurate but how did our ancestors read a apple or hunk of beef?

If it was as easy as burning more calories than you injest then wouldn't one be able to loose weight til you are just bones?
Cos that's what should happen based on cals in V cals out.

Once you start eating real clean food you'll be surprised the amount you can eat before gaining weight, & in calorie terms it would add up way over your recommended daily maintenance calorie amount.

Eat junk food & even if the amount is considerably less than your rec daily maintenance level you can still put on fat.

Calories is a good reference for food scientists when working in labs but virtually useless for the general public.

Just a good tool for dieters on weight watchers or Jenny Craig.

Eat to satiety, if your putting on weight then your choice of foods to reach satiety are wrong,
relying on activity to keep lean or loose weight is a big mistake.

Fatloss from exercise is a side effect from eating correct, you will never out exercise bad eating.
 
ablett said:
It is near impossible to accurate count calories & there is many factors/variables that cause inconsistencies each time you eat/consume food.
When you read a label you presume it's accurate but how did our ancestors read a apple or hunk of beef?

If it was as easy as burning more calories than you injest then wouldn't one be able to loose weight til you are just bones?
Cos that's what should happen based on cals in V cals out.

Once you start eating real clean food you'll be surprised the amount you can eat before gaining weight, & in calorie terms it would add up way over your recommended daily maintenance calorie amount.

Eat junk food & even if the amount is considerably less than your rec daily maintenance level you can still put on fat.

Calories is a good reference for food scientists when working in labs but virtually useless for the general public.

Just a good tool for dieters on weight watchers or Jenny Craig.

Eat to satiety, if your putting on weight then your choice of foods to reach satiety are wrong,
relying on activity to keep lean or loose weight is a big mistake.

Fatloss from exercise is a side effect from eating correct, you will never out exercise bad eating.
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I completely agree, 3 years ago i was overweight and out of shape, not that bad but i'd always had visible abs but t much drinking and junk food i had developed a bit of a gut. Long story short got back into the gym, cleaned up my diet and i've really immersed myself in all things diet and nutrition. Currently now i am 3.5 weeks out from my first physique, during this time of dieting i've been OCD with calories and doing my diet plan i have noticde how much food nutrition labels differ, even the macros on the labels don't equal the calories.

Agreed Jenny Craig, 8 week challenges etc are all short term "fixes" that don't. Keeping up regular exercise eating healthy most of the time will keep most people in reasonable shape. I will say for some people they can look at a piece of cake and put on weight and we all have a friend that can eat endless amounts of junk food and stay slim (not that they are necessarily healthy). You need to find out what works for you and stick with it, and it's not a simple as calories in as calories out but that will be a key part along with eating right the majority of the time.
 
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