Society/Culture Is bigfooty mature enough to discuss consent?

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Pessimistic

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Make no mistake this law is aimed at men, for obvious reasons. soceity expects men to take the sexual initiative.

If I was a male currently in the dating scene I think I'd approach it something like;

"can I just respectfully say that I wont take any sexual initiative here, and that if that is your expectation, you should ask for that explicitly. I think I would take such a request favourably"
Put a bit of humour in it, but you are being respectful both to the female and the law, opening that conversation, rather than play some outdated seduction game.

The law has actually encouraged you to be direct, and they cant put anything in the law which is gender specific, cos thats discrimination.

 
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Number37

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Make no mistake this law is aimed at men, for obvious reasons. soceity expects men to take the sexual initiative.

If I was a male currently in the dating scene I think I'd approach it something like;

"can I just respectfully say that I wont take any sexual initiative here, and that if that is your expectation, you should ask for that explicitly. I think I would take such a request favourably"
Put a bit of humour in it, but you are being respectful both to the female and the law, opening that conversation, rather than play some outdated seduction game.

The law has actually encouraged you to be direct, and they cant put anything in the law which is gender specific, cos thats discrimination.

Bit of hyperbole OP.

This is aimed squarely at a specific group of neanderthals.
 

Pessimistic

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Bit of hyperbole OP.

This is aimed squarely at a specific group of neanderthals.
a law cannot be ‘targeted’ at a particular group. That’s the point.

predators are very sneaky and resourceful, like habitual speed limit breakers. It’s the others which get caught as collateral damage.
 

mattf83

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Under these laws, if neither party affirms consent then how can one makes accusations of non-consensual sex?

Isn't it incumbent on both parties to affirm?
 

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"can I just respectfully say that I wont take any sexual initiative here, and that if that is your expectation, you should ask for that explicitly. I think I would take such a request favourably"
If that's what the law requires you to do before having sex then we have robots making our laws. This is not how human relations operate.
 

sorted

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I am certainly ok with things like

Circumstances in which consent (free agreement) is not given by a person—Crimes Act, section 36(2)
The person:​
• submits to the act because of force or the fear of force, whether to that person or someone else​
• submits to the act because of the fear of harm of any type, whether to that person or someone else or an animal​
• submits to the act because the person is unlawfully detained​
• is asleep or unconscious​

But then you get to

• is so affected by alcohol or another drug as to be incapable of consenting to the act​

What if both parties are affected by drugs or alcohol to be incapable of consenting to sex but it happens anyway? It's not an uncommon scenario.

And also

• does not say or do anything to indicate consent to the act​

This is a very subjective measure. It requires an indication of consent when these things are complex and often unspoken.
 

Number37

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a law cannot be ‘targeted’ at a particular group. That’s the point.

predators are very sneaky and resourceful, like habitual speed limit breakers. It’s the others which get caught as collateral damage.
A law can't be expressly targeted at a particular group.
 

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Toump Ass

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So what really changes..?
One person says there was affirmative consent, the other says there wasn't, and we're back to where we always are and always will be on this.

Personally I have a legal contract written by my lawyer which I ask all women to sign before I take their clothes off. I also film all the interactions in case there's any suggestion that persuasion was used in my seduction tactics.

As part of the survey I ask women to complete 5 minutes after we finsih, I again confirm that consent was sought and confirmed before love-making.

Feedback has been very good about my diligent and careful approach. You have to be careful these days. Alert, not alarmed.
 

Evolved1

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Dunno about you guys, but I've never been in doubt when my partners have given consent. If you're not sure that consent has been given, don't fu** her. If she's drunk beyond reason, she can't give consent.

Is that the jist of these new laws?
 

The Passenger

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Dunno about you guys, but I've never been in doubt when my partners have given consent. If you're not sure that consent has been given, don't fu** her. If she's drunk beyond reason, she can't give consent.

Is that the jist of these new laws?
Pretty much. Seem the right call but from an enforcement point of view it still falls into the he said she said category.
 

Jibroni

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FMD, exactly how do you police people when you have removed morality. Of course no one is going to lie.
 

Pessimistic

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Dunno about you guys, but I've never been in doubt when my partners have given consent. If you're not sure that consent has been given, don't fu** her. If she's drunk beyond reason, she can't give consent.

Is that the jist of these new laws?
technically, both parties should have actively given consent
 

M Malice

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Before every shag there must be notarized written consent lodged by both/all shaggers with the public trustee.... problem solved.
 
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Harro59

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Pretty much. Seem the right call but from an enforcement point of view it still falls into the he said she said category.
Yes this is where it ends up. This may sound silly but I'm pretty sure you could develop and app for this.

I mean QR codes are all the rage right now.
 

tandino

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I suppose a question is how many cases occur in the gap between the current "she didn't say no" and the future "she didn't say yes" standards of proof.

Gut feel, with nothing to back it up, the vast majority of rapes in the future would be classed as rapes in the eyes of the law as it stands today.
 

Pessimistic

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How does this work for long term relationships? Weekly update with tick boxes for all the various kinks? ‘Half asleep sex’? It’s a can of worms
You can’t exclude established relationships because a lot of abuse happens there

and same sex hook ups? Basically the first complainant wins? Based on inappropriate activity laws.

I’m ironically remembering that hook ups between ‘strangers’ hve been illegal under social distancing for substantial periods of the last two,years

Without trivialising the intent, it’s making a huge amount of currently consenting (or what fair society would consider consenting) activity illegal
 

Pessimistic

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I suppose a question is how many cases occur in the gap between the current "she didn't say no" and the future "she didn't say yes" standards of proof.

Gut feel, with nothing to back it up, the vast majority of rapes in the future would be classed as rapes in the eyes of the law as it stands today.
predators would be the first to find loopholes or using selective targeting as they do now.

an ‘App’? Don’t predators use “Apps’ to find victims now? If for example someone has ‘ I want sex on a regular basis’ in a profile? Isn’t that a form of consent?
 

Geelong_Sicko

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This isn't quite what the original poster was getting at but consent and bodily autonomy are probably the two unbreakable citadels of acceptable discrimination. And employment/recruitment of course where you can discriminate based on ability or skillset. But consent;

"I don't want to sleep with you because you're trans." Acceptable.
"I don't want to sleep with you because you're not from my ethnic group." Acceptable.
"I don't want to sleep with you because you're disabled." Acceptable.

There's no way they can force consent on an individual to break these discriminations. The rejected will obviously be emotionally wounded by rejection, but that's life. Most of us will have felt that hurt at some point. It's part of being human. But forced consent? That would be akin to legalised rape. And how could they police it?

EDIT: As to Pessimistic's original post, I agree that 'stealthing' or removing a condom during sex without the other person's knowledge, should be a crime. Hard to police because it's based on individual testimony but it's just wrong. Only a sh*t human would do such a thing.
 
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