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Is Dan24's finals system right or wrong? VOTE NOW!
- Thread starter Grendel
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The Old Dark Navy's
Moderator
- Moderator
- #177
Hey Teddy. You seem to be a bit stressed lately. That "get over it" statement is showing up here and there.
Just cover your ears and sing "ooh aah ooh aah sexy eyes" etc. You won't be able to think of another thing for hours.
Go on Teddy, do it! There is nothing worse than a Teddy that is losing its stuffing.
Just cover your ears and sing "ooh aah ooh aah sexy eyes" etc. You won't be able to think of another thing for hours.
Go on Teddy, do it! There is nothing worse than a Teddy that is losing its stuffing.
I think that if a new format were instated, like Dan's proposal, the grand final would still be pretty important.
I mean I've heard many players from England state that they would rather win a F.A. cup than a League title, even though the F.A cup is "less" prestigious". I think that a grand final win would be kind of the same.
Teams, especially from the lower half of the 8 would love to knock off the "league champion" in the first week of the series, as there would be no double chances.
I mean I've heard many players from England state that they would rather win a F.A. cup than a League title, even though the F.A cup is "less" prestigious". I think that a grand final win would be kind of the same.
Teams, especially from the lower half of the 8 would love to knock off the "league champion" in the first week of the series, as there would be no double chances.
M
Michele
Guest
Dan24,
I have not read through all 11 pages of this post, but in reply to your last post re "Westy Boy", in the AFL or footy, the reason the clubs, the teams we all support, play for the whole season is to play-off in the the Grand Final, not reach the top of the ladder.
Whether there should be MORE recognition of the top team after the H&A is another argument. I noticed Sheedy was vocal on this subject when Essendon finished on top, but not when other teams have finshed 1st.
A couple of years ago, North played WB in the last round for top spot and it was a fantastic game. Both sides could only finish 1 or 2 ensuring a gripping contest. That is not always the case eg. Essendon this year - with 3/4 season over, Essendon couldn't lose top spot. That scenario was good for one lot of supporters - Essendon's; other teams' supporters couldn't care less, the suspense was gone.
Michele
I have not read through all 11 pages of this post, but in reply to your last post re "Westy Boy", in the AFL or footy, the reason the clubs, the teams we all support, play for the whole season is to play-off in the the Grand Final, not reach the top of the ladder.
Whether there should be MORE recognition of the top team after the H&A is another argument. I noticed Sheedy was vocal on this subject when Essendon finished on top, but not when other teams have finshed 1st.
A couple of years ago, North played WB in the last round for top spot and it was a fantastic game. Both sides could only finish 1 or 2 ensuring a gripping contest. That is not always the case eg. Essendon this year - with 3/4 season over, Essendon couldn't lose top spot. That scenario was good for one lot of supporters - Essendon's; other teams' supporters couldn't care less, the suspense was gone.
Michele
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M
Michele
Guest
Dan24,
Have now read some of your earlier posts and their can only be one conclusion.
ESSENDON MUST HAND BACK ALL FLAGS/PREMIERSHIP CUPS WHEN THEY DID'NT FINISH ON TOP.
That solution should make many people happy!
Michele
Have now read some of your earlier posts and their can only be one conclusion.
ESSENDON MUST HAND BACK ALL FLAGS/PREMIERSHIP CUPS WHEN THEY DID'NT FINISH ON TOP.
That solution should make many people happy!
Michele
H
Hawkforce.
Guest
At the risk of feeling like I am putting a needle in my eye I wish to (re)make a couple of points.
1) If your using soccer as an example use the biggest competition : The Champions League! What is the format? A series of Home and Away fixtures leading to a ONE OFF FINAL IE: GRANDFINAL!
2) FINALS FOOTY MEANS SOMETHING!
1) If your using soccer as an example use the biggest competition : The Champions League! What is the format? A series of Home and Away fixtures leading to a ONE OFF FINAL IE: GRANDFINAL!
2) FINALS FOOTY MEANS SOMETHING!
1/Probably- but how about you answer my other points in that post, instead of harping on one thing for a page.
2/ it is NOT EXACTLY THE SAME! The runaway Essendon, having won the PREMIERSHIP (that's the difference Dan!), earlier in the season, ends the chances of anyone else winning THE "premiership" under your system. From there, all the teams are fighting for spots for a notional finals system, which will not bring them THE premiership, but only a trophy from a four week tournament. The importance of the last matches aren't as significant as they would have been, had the premiership still been up for grabs. That is my point. This could also be the worst thing I've ever written (although I reckon I've done a lot worse
This year for example. Essendon was the best team going around, but because, until the Grand Final the premiership wasn't theirs, all other teams had a CHANCE of gaining the glory. If it had of been your system, the Premiership would have been won.... which, under common psychology, if you have no chance of winning the premiership, you would feel less inclined to go (I would still go BTW). Please don't debate the merits of how unfair this is, just the fact that if your team has NO chance of winning The premiership (not the knockout tournament), interest MAY be reduced. Please acknowledge this. PLEASE!
I mean a team that has no chance of making the finals, generally experience lesser crowds. IMO, I think this would be the same for a top 8 team not having an opportunity to win the premiership, only a four week tournament in 4/5 weeks time.
3/ The Essendon V Carlton match was under THIS system. The premierhip was still "live". It was billed as the "premiership prelude"- These two teams are going to be battling it out the THE PREMIERSHIP! Let's see if Carlton try some new things, as a test for the grandfinal, WHICH incidentaly, WILL DECIDE THE PREMIERS!. Carlton still has a chance, despite Essendon's dominance during H&A. We can only estimate what the crowd/interest would have been under your system.... Essendon are the premiers already, Carlton are gonna try some new things, as a test for the grandfinal, which because of D24, will be a secondary trophy to that awarded to the minor premiers, which has already been awarded to Essendon 2 weeks ago. Do you see the point i'm making?
Australian culture needs the excitement found in the possibility of still winning the premiership, not a finals tournament which is classed as secondary.
Hawkforce,
I know, I know, I have sacrificed myself (once again)
BTW- A literal brick wall sounds good though, ....stopping me from responding to this topic for the upteenth time.
Good point about the Champions League! Premier competition in the world, all coming down to one final.... better get Dan on their back. They're obviously wrong!
Dan,
Now please answer my question.... why would the AFL risk changing a popular recognition system which no-one has any problems with? Especially when considering, that so many knowledgable aussie rules (bigfooty) supporters are so dead against it and can't see your way, despite 1500 posts telling us that we are wrong. Can you see the struggle it will have to get implemented Dan?? You (and probably only you), who feels so strongly about it, have failed to convince many (if any convincingly- people agreeing just to get you off their back don't count) in over A WHOLE F***** YEAR! What chance does the AFL have (who mind you don't feel as stronly about it as you) of convincing the WHOLE population! Who are they going to listen to? .... the fee paying masses who just blasted them for even suggesting it... or a bloke who posts on BigFooty.com ???
[This message has been edited by Westy Boy (edited 26 November 2000).]
1)You cannot compare our competition to the Champions League.
Firstly, the qualification process for the tournament is as follows. It goes on the previous season's standings in each particular countries domestic league. Compare that to the AFL where to qualify for the finals series it goes on the current seasons ladder positioning.
Secondly, it's only in recent years that they changed the way the competition was structured. Before, you had to finish top of the table in your domestic league to qualify.
They changed it because of the pressure of the rich clubs in Europe to allow them into the league. Also more group stage games means more revenue and profits for clubs and UEFA.
2) Don't the other games mean something?
Originally posted by Westy Boy:
2/ it is NOT EXACTLY THE SAME! The runaway Essendon, having won the PREMIERSHIP (that's the difference Dan!), earlier in the season, ends the chances of anyone else winning THE "premiership" under your system. From there, all the teams are fighting for spots for a notional finals system, which will not bring them THE premiership, but only a trophy from a four week tournament. The importance of the last matches aren't as significant as they would have been, had the premiership still been up for grabs. That is my point. This could also be the worst thing I've ever written (although I reckon I've done a lot worse)... but I don't care. It is my opinion. When THE premiership (not the secondary four week tournament trophy) isn't up for grabs, interest will lessen (albeit even slightly).
Well, it's not Essendon's(or any other team for that fact)fault that they were so good during the season. Other teams should have won more games. It's as simiple as that.
It's got nothing to do with culture. The premiership used to be decided with the team that finished on top of the ladder, in the 1880's to the late 1890's.
Dan24 also mentioned months ago that rugby league also had the "top spot" premiership system untill the 1930's.
My two cents worth !!!!
The team that wins most games in the season Logically should be Premiers......
It signifies the best team in the league, the club that has been able to respond for 20 weeks or so to all aspects of physical adversity.
The Grand Final gives the years honours to a club that may not deserve it.
When looking back over historical records from a foreign view point, ask the question as if you had no knowledge of Aussie rules,
Who were the best teams in this game over the last century, most will turn to the grand final page and say the team that won the most Grand Finals !, however the question may have not been answered.
The Premiers should be the best team of the year..
The Grand Final as Dan puts it is an Event that would not lose its lustre at all.
Should we have a situation where Carlton are second best to Essendon all year ,finish second for the Premiership, The GF would give them the ability to win ONE game against their nemesis thereby giving them the GF trophy and bragging rights for that event. The best team of the season would still be Essendon and should be acknowledged for that, Carlton in this example would have been Grand Final winners..
Really we HAVE the system in place, we just dont acknowledge it the way it should be.
PA1870
The team that wins most games in the season Logically should be Premiers......
It signifies the best team in the league, the club that has been able to respond for 20 weeks or so to all aspects of physical adversity.
The Grand Final gives the years honours to a club that may not deserve it.
When looking back over historical records from a foreign view point, ask the question as if you had no knowledge of Aussie rules,
Who were the best teams in this game over the last century, most will turn to the grand final page and say the team that won the most Grand Finals !, however the question may have not been answered.
The Premiers should be the best team of the year..
The Grand Final as Dan puts it is an Event that would not lose its lustre at all.
Should we have a situation where Carlton are second best to Essendon all year ,finish second for the Premiership, The GF would give them the ability to win ONE game against their nemesis thereby giving them the GF trophy and bragging rights for that event. The best team of the season would still be Essendon and should be acknowledged for that, Carlton in this example would have been Grand Final winners..
Really we HAVE the system in place, we just dont acknowledge it the way it should be.
PA1870
1/ With respect, what are you arguing? YOU and Dan, both pointed out that my "less interest in the latter rounds with a runaway leader using D24's system " argument was ridiculous, since it happened this season and crowds still went. I debated this particular argument (rightly or wrongly) based on its merits in the above post which you quoted. I just gave Dan one possible drawback if it was to be implemented. From that argument, you say "well other teams should have won more". C'mon!
2/ Our sport has nothing to do with culture??? The tradition in which it has been played for over 100 years has nothing to do with culture??? Everything has to do with culture. If we were cultureless, we would swap and change as much as we felt like, witout even a hint of debate. It all comes down to what we have become accustomed to, cut-throat grand finals, tradition, entertainment, stability, what the public wants etc. All I'm asking is, why would you change something which is a surefire thing (and part of our culture
- Thread starter
- #188
OI! This isnt the American presidential elections here!
All votes have been counted, Dan you LOST! Sorry about that, but this court (the Grendel law onto himself supreme bench) is now going on holidays.
Continue the debates if you want, but voting is now closed until at least next season after which we may open the polls again.
Wonder where i can get those punch out cards from?? Maybe a quick call to florida may be the go........
All votes have been counted, Dan you LOST! Sorry about that, but this court (the Grendel law onto himself supreme bench) is now going on holidays.
Continue the debates if you want, but voting is now closed until at least next season after which we may open the polls again.
Wonder where i can get those punch out cards from?? Maybe a quick call to florida may be the go........
H
Hawkforce.
Guest
Same Olds...
Re-read your first point that you replied to me with. When you understand its implications you will understand why the point (this thread in fact) is moot.
On your second point, the simple answer is - NOT AS MUCH AS FINALS!!!!!
Ask the players.
Re-read your first point that you replied to me with. When you understand its implications you will understand why the point (this thread in fact) is moot.
On your second point, the simple answer is - NOT AS MUCH AS FINALS!!!!!
Ask the players.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!
Who started this thread up again???
YOU HEARTLESS B@STARD!!!!
Who started this thread up again???
YOU HEARTLESS B@STARD!!!!
Westy Boy,
PA1870 and Same Old's have pretty much summed up want I want to say.
As PA1870 said, we already have the system in place. It's just a matter of "tweaking". You still act as though it's a major change - It's NOT. All we are doing is declaring the top team the years best. Don't you like fairness, or something?
It's almost as if you WANT the system to remain unfair. If it's unfair, then it gives everyone a chance of securing the prize, so to speak (according to you). This attitude is so wrong. This is not some Mickey Mouse competition. It's the AFL. The best team should be rewarded, end of story. A different team still has the opportunity for "Grand Final glory", anyway, so what's the problem ???
As I have seem to have said many times, the teams that didn't win the "top spot" premiership, still get a chance for FA CUP style glory by winning the Grand Final. Do you think that Chlesea (who won the FA CUP), didn't appreciate it much, because they failed to finish on top ? I'm sure Chelsea -and their supporters - were rapped to win the FA CUP and get the "Glory".
I might also add, that traditionally, "top spot" was the method of deciding the champions in Australian Football. Did you know this ? In the SANFL, WAFL and the VFA, the teams that finished top were the champions. In the VFL in 1897, they began the "finals series". No where else in the world used this. No where. If it was so good, why didn't anywhere else use it ?Various other competitions (eg the NFL) it appears may have used this model for their own competitions.
What the VFL didn't realise, is that they still could have had this Grand Final, but it didn't need to override 95% of the season (the H&A season) The VFL could have still had the Grand Final, as omething to win and to aspire to in it's own right, separate to the "proper stuff". But did they do this ? NO.
Westy, if you like the current system so much, why don't we shorten the H&A so that such a large percentage of the season isn't deemed irrelevant. I can't believe someone can like something, where you fight for 6 months to get something (top spot), and then, all that good work is useless. Apparently, this is "Australian Culture" and we can't change. Bullshit. People aren't stupid, Westy. Do you honestly think that the public enjoy seeing 22 weeks of good footy deemed worthless. No one wants that.
I'll give you an example. In 1897, the VFL introduced the final series. This was untraditional. It had never been done before. Despite this, the public accepted it STRAIGHT AWAY. The public will respond to whatever is given recognition. If top spot was given recognition in 2001, the public will respond. They responded to an "untraditional change" 100 years ago. THE PUBLIC WILL ACCEPT WHATEVER IS GIVEN RECOGNITION.
I REPEAT : THE PUBLIC WILL ACCEPT WHATEVER IS GIVEN RECOGNITION.
As for the Round 20 Essendon-Carlton match, I can guarantee that if ManU played Arsenal, with two weeks to go, and ManU had already secured top spot, the match, would be a sell-out and it would generate huge publicity. Why did so many people go yo watch Ess-Carl? Don't give me this crap about the premeirship still being up for grabs. In the 22 round season, you are really only playing for the McClelland troophy. You can't actually win the premeirship until the finals start, so why did everyone go to see a meaningless "home and away" match. Why not wait until they meet in the finals, where the premiership is actually decided ? People aren't stupid Westy. They came to see the best two teams. They knew who the best two teams were, even though they might not play in the Grand Final.
Anyway, let's suppose you're right. Let's suppose that the Grand Final lacked something under my proposal. I guarantee this wouldn't happen, but lets "pretend" it did. All it would mean, is that the Home and away seaosn would get more kudos and prestige. Now given that this Home and away season comprises 95% of the season, isn't it far moe important to give this 95% more prestige ? After all, why give somethign that only occupies 5% of the season more prestige ? Surely it is better business practice to put more meaning into the part of the season (the home and away) where the best team is found (nt to mention the fact that it occupies 95% of the season, also)
But as I've said, don't fear. The Grand Final wouldn't lack anything anyway. It's already an event, and it doesn't need to override 22 weeks of hard work ( lik it does now) for it to be huge. It will be huge anyway. The FA CUP is huge, because it is ther last match of the season and it's an "event". It doesn't decide the season champion, but does this detract from it ? NO ! Fortunately, or GF is already an event and it will always be huge. However it should NOT override 22 weeks of hard work. That is not good.
PA1870 and Same Old's have pretty much summed up want I want to say.
As PA1870 said, we already have the system in place. It's just a matter of "tweaking". You still act as though it's a major change - It's NOT. All we are doing is declaring the top team the years best. Don't you like fairness, or something?
It's almost as if you WANT the system to remain unfair. If it's unfair, then it gives everyone a chance of securing the prize, so to speak (according to you). This attitude is so wrong. This is not some Mickey Mouse competition. It's the AFL. The best team should be rewarded, end of story. A different team still has the opportunity for "Grand Final glory", anyway, so what's the problem ???
As I have seem to have said many times, the teams that didn't win the "top spot" premiership, still get a chance for FA CUP style glory by winning the Grand Final. Do you think that Chlesea (who won the FA CUP), didn't appreciate it much, because they failed to finish on top ? I'm sure Chelsea -and their supporters - were rapped to win the FA CUP and get the "Glory".
I might also add, that traditionally, "top spot" was the method of deciding the champions in Australian Football. Did you know this ? In the SANFL, WAFL and the VFA, the teams that finished top were the champions. In the VFL in 1897, they began the "finals series". No where else in the world used this. No where. If it was so good, why didn't anywhere else use it ?Various other competitions (eg the NFL) it appears may have used this model for their own competitions.
What the VFL didn't realise, is that they still could have had this Grand Final, but it didn't need to override 95% of the season (the H&A season) The VFL could have still had the Grand Final, as omething to win and to aspire to in it's own right, separate to the "proper stuff". But did they do this ? NO.
Westy, if you like the current system so much, why don't we shorten the H&A so that such a large percentage of the season isn't deemed irrelevant. I can't believe someone can like something, where you fight for 6 months to get something (top spot), and then, all that good work is useless. Apparently, this is "Australian Culture" and we can't change. Bullshit. People aren't stupid, Westy. Do you honestly think that the public enjoy seeing 22 weeks of good footy deemed worthless. No one wants that.
I'll give you an example. In 1897, the VFL introduced the final series. This was untraditional. It had never been done before. Despite this, the public accepted it STRAIGHT AWAY. The public will respond to whatever is given recognition. If top spot was given recognition in 2001, the public will respond. They responded to an "untraditional change" 100 years ago. THE PUBLIC WILL ACCEPT WHATEVER IS GIVEN RECOGNITION.
I REPEAT : THE PUBLIC WILL ACCEPT WHATEVER IS GIVEN RECOGNITION.
As for the Round 20 Essendon-Carlton match, I can guarantee that if ManU played Arsenal, with two weeks to go, and ManU had already secured top spot, the match, would be a sell-out and it would generate huge publicity. Why did so many people go yo watch Ess-Carl? Don't give me this crap about the premeirship still being up for grabs. In the 22 round season, you are really only playing for the McClelland troophy. You can't actually win the premeirship until the finals start, so why did everyone go to see a meaningless "home and away" match. Why not wait until they meet in the finals, where the premiership is actually decided ? People aren't stupid Westy. They came to see the best two teams. They knew who the best two teams were, even though they might not play in the Grand Final.
Anyway, let's suppose you're right. Let's suppose that the Grand Final lacked something under my proposal. I guarantee this wouldn't happen, but lets "pretend" it did. All it would mean, is that the Home and away seaosn would get more kudos and prestige. Now given that this Home and away season comprises 95% of the season, isn't it far moe important to give this 95% more prestige ? After all, why give somethign that only occupies 5% of the season more prestige ? Surely it is better business practice to put more meaning into the part of the season (the home and away) where the best team is found (nt to mention the fact that it occupies 95% of the season, also)
But as I've said, don't fear. The Grand Final wouldn't lack anything anyway. It's already an event, and it doesn't need to override 22 weeks of hard work ( lik it does now) for it to be huge. It will be huge anyway. The FA CUP is huge, because it is ther last match of the season and it's an "event". It doesn't decide the season champion, but does this detract from it ? NO ! Fortunately, or GF is already an event and it will always be huge. However it should NOT override 22 weeks of hard work. That is not good.
YES YES YES YES !!!!
Exactly!!
I might also ad, that if you look in a dictionary to define premiers it says : "Best. Above all others"
The Grand Final winner isn't necessarily the best. They should not be called premiers. They should be called "Grand Final champions", or "Final series champions"
The team on top of the ladder should be called "Home and away premiers". If you use the word premiers, it should only go to the best team; the team that won more games and finished above every other team over 22 weeks.
And the fact, that the Grand Final is an "event" means it wouldn't lose anything (FA CUP style). I cann't see ANY negatives in introducing this system, especially given that the "structure" of having 22 weeks plus 4 weeks of finals remains intact.
H
Hawkforce.
Guest
Dan24 & PA1870 - what unholy alliance is this?
Make some space on that wall, WestyPiraecles, I'm gonna need it!
Make some space on that wall, WestyPiraecles, I'm gonna need it!
🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.
Hawkforce
The unholy alliance is probably some evil footy-masonic lodge.....note the usernames that are part name, part serial number. Yes folks, I have a theory, and the theory is that the milkshake kid and the Port boy with the attention deficit syndrome are in fact, computer generations created by bigfooty. It must be true....after all...surely God could not contemplate creating such sad, lonely and pathetic creatures as part of humanity....could he?
Best call Mulder and Scully......
The unholy alliance is probably some evil footy-masonic lodge.....note the usernames that are part name, part serial number. Yes folks, I have a theory, and the theory is that the milkshake kid and the Port boy with the attention deficit syndrome are in fact, computer generations created by bigfooty. It must be true....after all...surely God could not contemplate creating such sad, lonely and pathetic creatures as part of humanity....could he?
Best call Mulder and Scully......
.
All I was trying to get at in the first point was that it doesn't matter, in my opinion, that a team has won the premiership with three or four rounds to go in the season. They should be rewarded for there consistancy.
I understand what you are saying by the argument can be turned the other way.
Say the "new" system was impemented and say that the season is close between teams, especially say the top 4 or 5, every game would count for something. It would be important for clubs not to lose games, weather their opponent was high on the ladder or not.
It would build a lot of interest especcially for the bottom clubs knowing that if the beat a top team they could be responsible for that particular club not winning the title.
Yeah the player's don't seem to "value" the H&A season because it is not recognised. If it were, I sure it would mean something to them then. That six months of hard work would be rewarded not like it currently is. Even now some H&A games are special, such as Anzac day games, derbies, etc.
[This message has been edited by Same Old's (edited 27 November 2000).]
Same Old's,
Good point. That's the point I am trying to get across to everyone. It's easy for people to claim that players/suporters don't care about something, when there is no recognition given to it.
If more recognition was given to something, then people would care. I stated below that the "traditional" way of deciding the premiership was by finishing on top. When this was stupidly changed 100 years ago, the public accepted the brand new system, because the "new" system was given all the recognition.
The public will accept whatever is given recognition.
Like I said, I've got no problems with having the Grand Final. It's a great event to end the season. But it doesn't need to render the 22 weeks beforehand useless. The Grand Final will be big in it's own right anyway, because it's "the GRAND FINAL". It should be separate to the home and away. Having them "linked" is just ludicrous.
Good point. That's the point I am trying to get across to everyone. It's easy for people to claim that players/suporters don't care about something, when there is no recognition given to it.
If more recognition was given to something, then people would care. I stated below that the "traditional" way of deciding the premiership was by finishing on top. When this was stupidly changed 100 years ago, the public accepted the brand new system, because the "new" system was given all the recognition.
The public will accept whatever is given recognition.
Like I said, I've got no problems with having the Grand Final. It's a great event to end the season. But it doesn't need to render the 22 weeks beforehand useless. The Grand Final will be big in it's own right anyway, because it's "the GRAND FINAL". It should be separate to the home and away. Having them "linked" is just ludicrous.
The Old Dark Navy's
Moderator
- Moderator
- #199
Try in vain, blasphemers!!!!!
Rugby League and Australian Rules changed the way they awarded their premiership many many moons ago. Why did they do this? On a whim???? To confuse the fans?? Maybe, just maybe they weren't as stupid as we seem to be giving them credit for and they did just as every other organisation would do. They researched, they planned, they consulted. Somehow, some way this is the method they come up with.
I will say again, the FA cup is a totally different comp to the premiership season. It also consists of teams from lower divisions given the chance to compete with the top teams. It takes place during the regular season with the final played at the end of the season. This finals season is more akin to the old Ansett cup format except we would only have the top 8 teams instead of the whole 16.
If you want to state that the champions cup is different in your arguments, you need to acknowledge that so is the FA cup.
I have previously mentioned that I wouldn't like to see titles and pennants won for everything but it is helpful to look at how other countries run their sports. American football, baseball and basketball teams all win pennants or titles for finishing on top of their respective divisions and conferences. But as prestigious as these titles are they certainly don't compare to the NBA Championship, the World Series or the Superbowl. Occasionally, the best performed team all year loses but do you think the fans would change it for anything???
------------------
mens sana in corpore sano - a sound mind in a sound body
Rugby League and Australian Rules changed the way they awarded their premiership many many moons ago. Why did they do this? On a whim???? To confuse the fans?? Maybe, just maybe they weren't as stupid as we seem to be giving them credit for and they did just as every other organisation would do. They researched, they planned, they consulted. Somehow, some way this is the method they come up with.
I will say again, the FA cup is a totally different comp to the premiership season. It also consists of teams from lower divisions given the chance to compete with the top teams. It takes place during the regular season with the final played at the end of the season. This finals season is more akin to the old Ansett cup format except we would only have the top 8 teams instead of the whole 16.
If you want to state that the champions cup is different in your arguments, you need to acknowledge that so is the FA cup.
I have previously mentioned that I wouldn't like to see titles and pennants won for everything but it is helpful to look at how other countries run their sports. American football, baseball and basketball teams all win pennants or titles for finishing on top of their respective divisions and conferences. But as prestigious as these titles are they certainly don't compare to the NBA Championship, the World Series or the Superbowl. Occasionally, the best performed team all year loses but do you think the fans would change it for anything???
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mens sana in corpore sano - a sound mind in a sound body
ODN's.
I know the FA CUP and our finals series are different, but in many ways they are similar. The "final" is held as the last match of the season. The "event status" of the FA CUP and our "Grand Final" are pretty much identical.
As for the change to a finals series back in 1897, I know what happened.
In 1896, Collingwood and South were equal on wins after the season. To decide the premeirship, they played a one-off match. This match was well recieved and the VFL used it from 1898 onwards.
There wasn't much in the way of resarch. In fact, if South and Collingwod were NOT equal on wins at the end on 1896 in the VFA we probably wouldn't have a Grand Final today.
What the VFL didn't realsie, is that they could still have this "event style" one-off match at the end of the season BUT it doesn't need to override the H&A season. For some stupid reason, they decided that this match would render all the matches before it meaningless - double or nothing style. However, they "COULD" have easily had the premiership winner on top of the ladder, and awarded the Grand Final champion a separate prize. But this would have been too logical.
Heaven forbid we actually reward the top team and declare them premiers (which means best, after all)
Currently, the Grand Final overrides the H&A season and deems it irrelevant. That sucks. it sucks bad. You can still have the Grand Final as something to aspire to in it's own right.Back in 1897, they should have had this Grand Final. I love the Grand Final; it's a great event. But the winner of this Grand Final (or finals series), to conclude the season would just be "finals series champions"
I know the FA CUP and our finals series are different, but in many ways they are similar. The "final" is held as the last match of the season. The "event status" of the FA CUP and our "Grand Final" are pretty much identical.
As for the change to a finals series back in 1897, I know what happened.
In 1896, Collingwood and South were equal on wins after the season. To decide the premeirship, they played a one-off match. This match was well recieved and the VFL used it from 1898 onwards.
There wasn't much in the way of resarch. In fact, if South and Collingwod were NOT equal on wins at the end on 1896 in the VFA we probably wouldn't have a Grand Final today.
What the VFL didn't realsie, is that they could still have this "event style" one-off match at the end of the season BUT it doesn't need to override the H&A season. For some stupid reason, they decided that this match would render all the matches before it meaningless - double or nothing style. However, they "COULD" have easily had the premiership winner on top of the ladder, and awarded the Grand Final champion a separate prize. But this would have been too logical.
Heaven forbid we actually reward the top team and declare them premiers (which means best, after all)
Currently, the Grand Final overrides the H&A season and deems it irrelevant. That sucks. it sucks bad. You can still have the Grand Final as something to aspire to in it's own right.Back in 1897, they should have had this Grand Final. I love the Grand Final; it's a great event. But the winner of this Grand Final (or finals series), to conclude the season would just be "finals series champions"
