Is Joel Selwood being unfairly maligned?

[Sttew]

On the AFL board there is yet another thread on the around the neck high free kick 'debate', this week's serving prompted by Lindsay Thomas, on the back of Mathieson the week before. Whether rightly or wrongly our captain is copping the blame for this, with some posters suggesting he introduced the tactic of dropping the knees and raising the shoulder to draw an around the neck free, with others now copying him.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...to-get-a-high-free-how-do-we-stop-it.1134026/

Is Joel being unfairly maligned? Should the AFL impose a blanket ban on around the neck tackles resulting from players dropping their knees? Or should footballers learn how to tackle better?

I am naturally protective of Joel as he is our captain, but his reputation is severely on the line with the likes of Dermott laying the boots into him.

 

[Topper]

People are morons.

Everyone just puts head high free kicks in the same basket. Some players drop the knee, Lindsay, Poppy, Shuey

Joel shrugs his arms to raise the tacklers arm up to become a high tackle, completely different to the above mentioned cheats, yet gets the same result, so the morons put Joel in their category

 

[hbk_aus]

People are morons.

Everyone just puts head high free kicks in the same basket. Some players drop the knee, Lindsay, Poppy, Shuey

Joel shrugs his arms to raise the tacklers arm up to become a high tackle, completely different to the above mentioned cheats, yet gets the same result, so the morons put Joel in their category

In all fairness, Joel does bend at the knees as well. Doesnt do it as obviously as Thomas did on the weekend, or like Bundy does. McLean from the Bulldogs is one who does it a lot as well, and you can see opposition players mouthing off at him when he does it.

 

[PhatBoy]

I have a varied view on this.

I have played both the rugbys, and soccer at senior level.
Never played AFL but have been following it for 27 years.
The three sports I have played are each a bit different in how players approach the idea of getting penalties.
In soccer, players will do anything to earn one. It doesn't just go for EPL - I play local fourth grade and it is chronic.
Not just playing for penalties and appealing to the ref every time players get breathed on either - there is simply an inherent culture of making more out of physical contact than what is realistic.
Even when there is no potential for a free kick, players are, for want of a better word, soft.
There is no emphasis placed on making it look like something DOESN'T hurt - which was the first thing I was taught in rugby league - unless it's serious, pretend you aren't hurt.
The only soccer players I come up against or play with who don't have the "make as big a deal of everything as possible" mantra, are the other guys who've come from other codes.

In rugby, players don't feign for penalties. They do however base game plans around trying to earn them. Force opponents into indiscretions, force them to collapse scrums, recycle the ball for phase after phase to try and get a shot at a penalty goal rather than risk coughing up the ball with expansive movement.
It is f***ing boring, but it isn't really cheating or against the spirit of the game. Tactics more than deception.

In league, it has begun to creep into the game that players will deliberately seek out contact from opponents when they don't have the ball in order to earn penalties for obstructions and the like. It is a stain on the game because 90 per cent of players are doing their best. But players like Gallen and Farah are becoming chronic for trying to earn penalties.
On the flipside, league is the one code where players deliberately GIVE AWAY penalties to slow play down and earn a bit of a rest.
Players in league will try exaggerate the impact of someone laying on them when they're tackled to try and earn a penalty.
They do it either by getting to their feet as quickly as humanly possible to play the ball, knowing that they won't be able to do it properly but probably getting a whistle for the tackler not getting off quick enough.
They also release the ball sometimes when they know an opponent has their own hands on it trying to wrap it up, in the knowledge that they will get a penalty for the tackler 'stripping' the ball.

All the codes have their quirks - are these really any less acceptable than what players are doing in AFL?

Probably not for me to answer.
I will say this though.

To me - and clearly I'm biased - most of the free kicks Joel Selwood wins, are incidental. He is clearly, most of the time, trying to win possession and get clear of his opponents, and he tries to shrug the tackle as best he can.
I've got no doubt he knows that he can win a free kick in doing it, but I don't think that is his aim.
If you want to get technical, forwards who take front position in the knowledge that their opponent will probably make an infringment in trying to spoil the ball, are playing for free kicks.

Thomas to me is someone who clearly feigns interference or foul play, RATHER than trying to play the ball and get it clear, or take possession.
Just before his infamous free kick on Saturday, he entered a bit of a contest, and came reeling out of it with his hands flailing like he just fell off a cliff. Clearly staging for a free, which thankfully went unnoticed by the umpires.

 

[catempire]

There's a great litmus test of footy knowledge, just ask: "does Joel Selwood duck?"

 

[Sttew]

There's a great litmus test of footy knowledge, just ask: "does Joel Selwood duck?"

Depends on the legal definition of "duck". On the AFL board ducking is now equated - at least by some - as dropping the knees and shrugging the arm. That's why Joel has earned the nickname Joel Duckwood

BUT. We know that what he does is NOT ducking, and that is why the AFL declared the action to be legal last year

 

[catempire]

Depends on the legal definition of "duck". On the AFL board ducking is now equated - at least by some - as dropping the knees and shrugging the arm. That's why Joel has earned the nickname Joel Duckwood

BUT. We know that what he does is NOT ducking, and that is why the AFL declared the action to be legal last year

Same same. He doesn't drop at the knees like Thomas and Christensen either. He uses his strength to shrug the tackler's arms up, with the sole purpose of breaking the tackle or at least getting his arms free so he can keep the ball moving. The telltale sign is that he has almost always done so by the time the free is paid.

In contrast to the others, he never ends up on the ground stationary or stops for the free.

 

[Sttew]

Same same. He doesn't drop at the knees like Thomas and Christensen either. He uses his strength to shrug the tackler's arms up, with the sole purpose of breaking the tackle or at least getting his arms free so he can keep the ball moving. The telltale sign is that he has almost always done so by the time the free is paid.

In contrast to the others, he never ends up on the ground stationary or stops for the free.

The only time Joel stops is when the tackle becomes a crude around the neck - how many times has it looked like the opposition guy is trying to yank his head off? And people are suggesting the umpires need to call play on in such scenarios. Gerard Healy said there are 2 ways to tackle - go low or go high. That's is simplistic but to me it highlights this is as much a problem for the tackler as the player who is tackled.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

I see it quite simply and as thus:
What LT does he does to win a free kick.
What Selwood does he does to break free from the tackler and continue on with the ball.
There is the difference.
LT and others of his ilk will put themselves out of a contest by acting on any contact whereas Selwood (and others) create incidental contact by trying to break free/win the ball and will continue on with both should the whistle not go.

 

[StonedCat]

his reputation is severely on the line with the likes of Dermott laying the boots into him.

/Rantmodeon

Therein lies the problem, when The Germ has to say anything good about the Geelong Football Club or its personel he says it through clenched teeth and gleefully sinks the boots in when he can by sounding the sanctimonious hypocrite that he is....

Rantmodeoff\

Sorry nothing to do with the thread too much I know but I hate the pr1ck

 

[bulletproof]

Not technically related to topic at hand, but the quality of Selwood's performances rarely attract negative comment.

If Cotchin had of dished up what Selwood did on the weekend in a loss to Carlton the media would have been all over him.

It was as bad as you get from an A grader.

 

[hbk_aus]

Not technically related to topic at hand, but the quality of Selwood's performances rarely attract negative comment.

If Cotchin had of dished up what Selwood did on the weekend in a loss to Carlton the media would have been all over him.

It was as bad as you get from an A grader.

I am genuinely concerned about his body. His style of play has never been conducive to a long career but his consistency has dropped the last couple of years IMO. His body may be struggling - why else would you start him up forward when we needed to make a statement after a bad loss the previous week? (Save your breath about Chris Scott's decision making, that is for another thread)

 

[dazbroncos]

I see it quite simply and as thus:
What LT does he does to win a free kick.
What Selwood does he does to break free from the tackler and continue on with the ball.
There is the difference.
LT and others of his ilk will put themselves out of a contest by acting on any contact whereas Selwood (and others) create incidental contact by trying to break free/win the ball and will continue on with both should the whistle not go.

Great post.
End of thread.

Go Catters

 

[PhatBoy]

Not technically related to topic at hand, but the quality of Selwood's performances rarely attract negative comment.

If Cotchin had of dished up what Selwood did on the weekend in a loss to Carlton the media would have been all over him.

It was as bad as you get from an A grader.

Probably true but also worth remembering that Cotchin has never in his career reached, consistently at least, the sort of level that Selwood has for periods of months and months on end.

 

[Boxhead_31]

There's a great litmus test of footy knowledge, just ask: "does Joel Selwood duck?"

There is only one correct answer to that question:

 

[Boxhead_31]

All the people going on about this method need to watch how Geelong tackled Shuey one of the very best of doing this when we played the West Coast. Shuey didn't get one free from a tackle going high that game for a reason

 

[fpm84]

From The Age:

Troubling for Geelong was that captain Joel Selwood (just three first-term touches) was again subdued. He began the game as a forward which appears to be a concession to a leg injury that might have seen him miss. He is not covering the ground, so once Ed Curnow worked him over at the stoppage, the tagger would roll off and stretch Selwood with run.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ma...elong-cats-20160529-gp6i6f.html#ixzz4A6vjiNKy

 

[Go Hoops]

It's the tacklers responsibility to apply the tackle correctly. If you attempt to tackle around the shoulder area to prevent a player lifting his arms to dispose of the ball - which players are taught to do - you risk a high tackle. Go for the waist and you are not likely to infringe.

The day the rules favour the tackler over the ball player is the day I chuck in following the game.

 

[Bobby_]

Forget the free kicks or ducking. He can't break free of tags. A lot of top players are this way. Unfortunately for Selwood, he's not the tallest mid in the game and he's often up against taggers who stand 6ft'1 or 6ft'2 so that makes it even tougher.
Teams are starting to focus more on Selwood than Dangerfield now because they know Dangerfield's disposal is not as damaging as Selwood's.

When I say we are soft team, this is a part of it. In the past, when Ablett was getting tagged, Rooke, Ling and Bartel would always make it uncomfortable for the tagger. They would scrag and bump off the ball to allow Junior a free run at it. Blicavs isn't doing this because he's not a physical footballer. It's not in his make-up.
Of course we won't get it from Duncan or Guthrie either. Perhaps Caddy can be the one that sacrifices more of his game to help his skipper. Put his big body in between himself and the tagger as often as possible.

 

[Sttew]

There is only one correct answer to that question:
View attachment 252020

That is brilliant!!

 

[schmuttt]

I am a huge critic of players that duck, but as a neutral Selwood isn't as bad as some of the others. He generally tries to keep running and continue play, rather than literally backing into the taggers.

As a neutral I don't think he gets protected by your other mids enough. When you had guys like Ling/Corey/Rooke running through the middle it was very hard to tag someone like GAJ because the tagger would continually get bumped and pushed around off the ball.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

I'm not sure why one continues to listen to the views of an opposition supporter on the main board.

Isn't that the place school kids go to display their limited football knowledge.

 

[James1970]

Forget the free kicks or ducking. He can't break free of tags. A lot of top players are this way. Unfortunately for Selwood, he's not the tallest mid in the game and he's often up against taggers who stand 6ft'1 or 6ft'2 so that makes it even tougher.
Teams are starting to focus more on Selwood than Dangerfield now because they know Dangerfield's disposal is not as damaging as Selwood's.

When I say we are soft team, this is a part of it. In the past, when Ablett was getting tagged, Rooke, Ling and Bartel would always make it uncomfortable for the tagger. They would scrag and bump off the ball to allow Junior a free run at it. Blicavs isn't doing this because he's not a physical footballer. It's not in his make-up.
Of course we won't get it from Duncan or Guthrie either. Perhaps Caddy can be the one that sacrifices more of his game to help his skipper. Put his big body in between himself and the tagger as often as possible.

With a couple more pre-seasons, I'm thinking Gregson, though short, could fit this role due to his core strength. But by then, Selwood could be finished anyway. A pity his brother isn't match fit yet.

 

[Gelooong]

Joel is a gun

 

[Turbocat]

Yes