Science/Environment is mars a distraction from proving god does not exist (or does)?

[Pessimistic]

Trump wants people on mars and the moon.

Its a terrific waste of resources to only increase our knowledge a little.

The same resources continuing to explore the solar system and beyond with new techniques will provide knowledge a hundred fold at least. Its great work at the extreme reaches of the cosmos and our knowledge.

I can think why our leaders would not see this. other high profiles like Musk too. all their arguments why to explore mars are deeply flawed. Its metaphorically like the early explorers wanting to explore some bog in Ireland instead of pushing on to the new world and beyond

Could it be that science is close to disproving god, or at least explaining the phenomena? Is it just a huge distraction?


Just to be clear I'm talking longer timeframaes here, where the accumulation of effort adds up., though it would be nice if science got closer before I get to meet God so to speak

 

[ShanDog]

If you want to colonise new planets, you have to learn how to actually step foot on them and make it work first.

 

[Pessimistic]

If you want to colonise new planets, you have to learn how to actually step foot on them and make it work first.

I don't want to colonise anything. What can you learn not learned from the moon landings? Theres plenty of very good reasons we stopped visiting. the reasons didnt change just cos trump got elected.

And Musk. The guy wants us to have robots drive our cars instead of us, but wants to put humans back in charge of currently autonomous space probes?

AI is a far better exploration proxy than humans, and is getting better every day

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

What if there were mineral resources ON the Moon? On Mars? On asteroids? All them resources on cold dead worlds (terra nullius in space? YYB) with no ecosystems to worry about. They're already drafting shit up in the U.S Congress;

congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/1508

Space Resource Exploration and Utilization Act of 2015

(Sec. 2) Directs the President, acting through appropriate federal agencies, to:

• facilitate the commercial exploration and utilization of space resources to meet national needs;
• discourage government barriers to the development of economically viable, safe, and stable industries for the exploration and utilization of space resources in manners consistent with the existing international obligations of the United States; and
• promote the right of U.S. commercial entities to explore outer space and utilize space resources, in accordance with such obligations, free from harmful interference, and to transfer or sell such resources.

Defines "space resource" as a natural resource of any kind found in place in outer space.

Directs the President to make recommendations to Congress for: (1) the allocation of responsibilities relating to the exploration and utilization of space resources among federal agencies, and (2) any authorities necessary to meet U.S. international obligations with respect to such exploration and resource utilization.

Declares that any asteroid resources obtained in outer space are the property of the entity that obtained them, which shall be entitled to all property rights to them, consistent with applicable federal law and existing international obligations.

States that a U.S. commercial space resource utilization entity:

• shall avoid causing harmful interference in outer space, and
• may bring a civil action in a U.S. district court for any action by another entity subject to U.S. jurisdiction causing harmful interference to its operations with respect to an asteroid resource utilization activity in outer space.

 

[ShanDog]

I don't want to colonise anything. What can you learn not learned from the moon landings? Theres plenty of very good reasons we stopped visiting. the reasons didnt change just cos trump got elected.

And Musk. The guy wants us to have robots drive our cars instead of us, but wants to put humans back in charge of currently autonomous space probes?

AI is a far better exploration proxy than humans, and is getting better every day

As far as tech goes, we may as well have landed on the moon 300 years ago.

 

[Pessimistic]

What if there were mineral resources ON the Moon? On Mars? On asteroids? All them resources on cold dead worlds (terra nullius in space? YYB) with no ecosystems to worry about. They're already drafting shit up in the U.S Congress;

Rare ones I guess. No shortage of iron and silicon here on/in earth

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Rare ones I guess. No shortage of iron and silicon here on/in earth

Zero gravity may have had a hand in producing things we've never even seen before, mineral-wise. Different kinds of gassy atmosphere, pressure differentials, the possibilities are nearly limitless.

Jurisdiction needs to be nutted out before we even leave Earth though. First in, best dressed with the wealthiest nations keeping known space for themselves alone? Joint exploration to benefit mankind as a whole?

 

[Snake_Baker]

Its a terrific waste of resources to only increase our knowledge a little.

Knowledge is the only resource we have.

 

[RupieDupie]

Trump wants people on mars and the moon.

Its a terrific waste of resources to only increase our knowledge a little.

The same resources continuing to explore the solar system and beyond with new techniques will provide knowledge a hundred fold at least. Its great work at the extreme reaches of the cosmos and our knowledge.

I can think why our leaders would not see this. other high profiles like Musk too. all their arguments why to explore mars are deeply flawed. Its metaphorically like the early explorers wanting to explore some bog in Ireland instead of pushing on to the new world and beyond

Could it be that science is close to disproving god, or at least explaining the phenomena? Is it just a huge distraction?


Just to be clear I'm talking longer timeframaes here, where the accumulation of effort adds up., though it would be nice if science got closer before I get to meet God so to speak

In what may be totally unrelated news;
Apparently NASA is going to make some HUUUGE announcement on Thursday, something to do with their planet hunting, if this is just diddly-darn evidence for liquid again, I'm never ever reading anything associated with NASA ever* again. This better be aliens. Not just microbe-sized aliens as well, I'm talking 8 feet tall extraterrestrial life forms who love mothers in what is considered more than platonic.

*Ever = I will give myself 24 hours to forget this promise.

 

[Pessimistic]

Zero gravity may have had a hand in producing things we've never even seen before, mineral-wise. Different kinds of gassy atmosphere, pressure differentials, the possibilities are nearly limitless.

Jurisdiction needs to be nutted out before we even leave Earth though. First in, best dressed with the wealthiest nations keeping known space for themselves alone? Joint exploration to benefit mankind as a whole?

first in, best dressed, but with everything reverting to public domain after 50 years? (2019)

but I guess to be consistent I should count non manned missions

may be a moo point if russians stake a claim

from WIKI
After the unsuccessful attempt by the Luna 1 to land on the moon in 1959, the Soviet Union performed the first hard (unpowered) moon landing later that same year with the Luna 2 spacecraft, a feat the U.S. duplicated in 1962 with Ranger 4. Since then, twelve Soviet and U.S. spacecraft have used braking rockets to make soft landings and perform scientific operations on the lunar surface, between 1966 and 1976. In 1966 the USSR accomplished the first soft landings and took the first pictures from the lunar surface during the Luna 9 and Luna 13 missions. The U.S. followed with five unmanned Surveyor soft landings.

The Soviet Union achieved the first unmanned lunar soil sample return with the Luna 16 probe on 24 September 1970. This was followed by Luna 20 and Luna 24in 1972 and 1976, respectively. Following the failure at launch in 1969 of the first Lunokhod, Luna E-8 No.201, the Luna 17 and Luna 21 were successful unmanned lunar rover missions in 1970 and 1973.

Many missions were failures at launch. In addition, several unmanned landing missions achieved the Lunar surface but were unsuccessful, including: Luna 15, Luna 18, and Luna 23 all crashed on landing; and the U.S. Surveyor 4 lost all radio contact only moments before its landing.

More recently, other nations have crashed spacecraft on the surface of the Moon at speeds of around 8,000 kilometres per hour (5,000 mph), often at precise, planned locations. These have generally been end-of-life lunar orbiters that, because of system degradations, could no longer overcome perturbations from lunar mass concentrations ("masscons") to maintain their orbit. Japan's lunar orbiter Hiten impacted the Moon's surface on 10 April 1993. The European Space Agencyperformed a controlled crash impact with their orbiter SMART-1 on 3 September 2006.

Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) performed a controlled crash impact with its Moon Impact Probe (MIP) on 14 November 2008. The MIP was an ejected probe from the Indian Chandrayaan-1 lunar orbiter and performed remote sensing experiments during its descent to the lunar surface.

The Chinese lunar orbiter Chang'e 1 executed a controlled crash onto the surface of the Moon on 1 March 2009. The rover mission Chang'e 3 was launched on 1 December 2013 and soft-landed on 14 December.

 

[King Brown]

What if there were mineral resources ON the Moon? On Mars? On asteroids? All them resources on cold dead worlds (terra nullius in space? YYB) with no ecosystems to worry about. They're already drafting shit up in the U.S Congress;

Most of our easily accessible and most important resources are the result of biological or weathering processes - iron ore is precipitated from the oxygenation event, coal & petroleum from dead plants and animals, bauxite and other laterites from weathering. Even many deposits that have a primary ore genesis that is hydrothermal / magmatic in origin are made more accessible through secondary processes like supergene enrichment. There was a recent study by CSIRO (I think) that showed many easily accessible gold veins were deposited by an ancient gold-consuming bacteria.

Antarctica is the best proxy for extra planetary resources, and it is thought to have low prospectively because it has had minimal weathering and biological activity for millions of years.

Zero gravity may have had a hand in producing things we've never even seen before, mineral-wise. Different kinds of gassy atmosphere, pressure differentials, the possibilities are nearly limitless.

Jurisdiction needs to be nutted out before we even leave Earth though. First in, best dressed with the wealthiest nations keeping known space for themselves alone? Joint exploration to benefit mankind as a whole?

Unlikely - earth is the most mineral rich body in the solar system. Sure, there are other planets with some minerals, but we have an amazing bounty here. The fact we have free oxygen and water on the surface as well as an active magmatic system means this planet generates an inordinate number of minerals.

It's unlikely we'll find anything on Mars or the Moon.

 

[Frank Bunn]

I can't get excited about a few people going to Mars in my lifetime. Virtual reality is more interesting.

 

[RobbieK]

I have no idea how proving or disproving God fits in with what is happening regarding travel to Mars...

But the scientific method can not prove God exists or not. Science is concerned only with the physical world. It has nothing to say about the metaphysical.

 

[Pessimistic]

I have no idea how proving or disproving God fits in with what is happening regarding travel to Mars...

But the scientific method can not prove God exists or not. Science is concerned only with the physical world. It has nothing to say about the metaphysical.

Physical world? I’m talking cosmos and not a yankee soccer team

 

[RobbieK]

Physical world? I’m talking cosmos and not a yankee soccer team

The cosmos is still the realm of the physical, not the metaphysical.

 

[Total Power]

I thought moon landing was fake?

 

[Pessimistic]

I thought moon landing was fake?

Theres a few variations on the conspiracy

 

[Pessimistic]

The cosmos is still the realm of the physical, not the metaphysical.

Except as time goes on stuff moves from one to the other

Genetics for example

 

[Admiral Byng]

I have no idea how proving or disproving God fits in with what is happening regarding travel to Mars...

But the scientific method can not prove God exists or not. Science is concerned only with the physical world. It has nothing to say about the metaphysical.

This.

If you want to get into proving or disproving the God of the Bible then there is plenty here to look at on Earth, like genomics for starters.

 

[RobbieK]

Except as time goes on stuff moves from one to the other

Genetics for example

Genetics is an example of us deepening our knowledge or the physical, not the metaphysical moving to the physical.

 

[Pessimistic]

Genetics is an example of us deepening our knowledge or the physical, not the metaphysical moving to the physical.

By today’s definition.

 

[Pessimistic]

Our cosmic horizon is now detecting things much older than earth, and is rapidly reaching the time of the alleged Big Bang birth

Who knows what’s beyond the cosmic horizon

It blows my mind that most of the cosmos is emptiness in terms of matter, yet it’s full of energy emitted from stars etc. Stars which take up very little in terms of matter

Very clumsy post

 

[RupieDupie]

I have no idea how proving or disproving God fits in with what is happening regarding travel to Mars...

But the scientific method can not prove God exists or not. Science is concerned only with the physical world. It has nothing to say about the metaphysical.

Depends if a person makes a statement on God. If a person goes straight to a statement on God which ensures no one can scientifically disprove the God, they automatically have also created a God who cannot provide a dogma. That is, a God that cannot be used to form an organised religion.

Conversely if a person makes a statement on God whereby the God can provide a dogma (objective to all followers) the God can also be scientifically probed.


Incidentally, “they” have found a large cigar shaped object ~85x the distance from the Earth to the moon. I hope it is the aliens, not just a rock.

 

[Total Power]

By today’s definition.

True but I think that science has an oversupply of mechanistic minded folk, and that those who have a different tangent like Bohm, Bohr, Schrodinger, Heisenberg, Planck etc among others are quickly dismissed as tending toward psuedo-science (or because of their contributions to science are more kindly regarded as 'slightly eccentric').

Case in point being scientists talking about our universe and "we" being simulations controlled by a higher intelligence. Replace that higher intelligence with "god" and see the atheist freak out. Someone proposes a multiverse hypothesis, no worries all good, a mystic proposes "higher conscious" is immediately a liar.

I keep telling the same thing here, We are not only made up of the bits of energy that we can observe scientifically, we are made up of the bits of energy that we don't even know exist yet! It stands to reason that the only instrument capable of observing all aspects of energy are the ones that we're currently sitting in.

 

[RupieDupie]

True but I think that science has an oversupply of mechanistic minded folk, and that those who have a different tangent like Bohm, Bohr, Schrodinger, Heisenberg, Planck etc among others are quickly dismissed as tending toward psuedo-science (or because of their contributions to science are more kindly regarded as 'slightly eccentric').

Case in point being scientists talking about our universe and "we" being simulations controlled by a higher intelligence. Replace that higher intelligence with "god" and see the atheist freak out. Someone proposes a multiverse hypothesis, no worries all good, a mystic proposes "higher conscious" is immediately a liar.

I keep telling the same thing here, We are not only made up of the bits of energy that we can observe scientifically, we are made up of the bits of energy that we don't even know exist yet! It stands to reason that the only instrument capable of observing all aspects of energy are the ones that we're currently sitting in.

But I don't think that Bohm, Bohr, Schrodinger, Heisenberg, Planck etc are dismissed as pseudo-scientists and are in fact, quite oppositely, are considered giants in their fields.

I think an issue arises from the question of God, if we just state that God is a currently hitherto unknown energy, this gives us no further reason or knowledge. Should anyone behave differently based on this knowledge? Similarly if we state that God has created a simulation - what should a person do with this knowledge? The problem is that when a person asserts this kind of God exists, they have exactly the same amount of evidence and reason for this God as a person who does not believe in any Gods. It is an empty statement.

The converse God, is a God created by people which tells other people they ought do this, and they ought do that, and yet, if God is anything like you have described, it cannot possibly do so. Therefore, the reality of the situation is, just like in the emperor's new clothes, the person proclaiming this God, is telling other people they ought do this, and they ought do that, yet pretending and lying that this originates from a divine being. This latter point is profound, especially in any society where lying and villainy is considered morally repugnant.