General Bombers Talk Is the slide on.

[Squeaky]

If we get a wet day the result won't be good for us...
Ball handling was sub par!
Accountability - what is that?

Very ordinary - I hope that isn't IT for us because it's a long way to come to put up this shit!

 

[forwardflanker]

Hibberd - totally dro
Stanton - No impact lately
Crameri - OK he's been injured but it seems like after about round 8 each season he just can't sustain his form.

Opposition teams have worked out how important Hibberd is off half back and are now putting work into limiting his rebound. Things will be even more difficult now that Dempsy has gone down. Top quality sides like Hawthorn and Sydney normally have at least 3 running half backs with quality disposal. I know last season we had all sort of problems when Heath Shaw was being tagged and shut down to the extent that it meant we had to rely on Maxwell and Toovey for our defensive rebound which is pretty horrid. Perhaps Goddard will have to play off half back in the meantime to mitigate the times when one of them gets shut down.

& in fairness to Carlisle I don't think any defender in the AFL beats Cloke when he is given a 1v1 contest so often. He is beaten when Collingwood are so one dimensional in delivering to him that a 2nd defender can peel off and also with his horrendous kicking obv. Today was one of the few times in the last 2 seasons that Collingwood didn't player directly through him and he also got a lot more ball upfield as a result of us wanting to take advantage of Reid v Fletcher.

 

[sacka]

Interesting stat I saw today.
2008-2013 post round 17
7 wins 1 draw 23 losses
14 of the 23 losses by at least 9 goals.
WOW that's worse than a slide.

 

[The Jet]

We have been ordinary the last 5-6weeks....our struggles to beat the minnows was the writing on the wall and true to form we have been slaughtered against good opposition last 2 weeks.

West Coast is no certainty next week! On form we are a bottom 6 side. I actually think barring next week we will lose all remaining games.

3 of the previous losses was without Jobe Watson. No excuses anymore.

If we beat Eagles like we should beat them (by 5+ goals) then I can not see why we can't win the remaining games. When we play Carlton & North, their seasons will be over. As long as the Tigers game isn't in wet weather, I am confident we will beat them again by 5-6 goals.

 

[astrowizzle]

This slide started 10 weeks ago. I think the ASADA shit has slowly been taking its toll. But we are way too guilty of making too many changes each week to the team when we rush players back in.

 

[EBCantona]

The aim is to win a final, that's all i hope for. We won't be making top 4 anyway.

 

[GandalfTheDon]

I still maintain we aren't experiencing a late season fade out. Feels like we're just in a rut, but the difference between this season and other seasons is that I can actually see us playing good footy again. Not sure what happened to the boys today, didn't seem like they wanted it and I'm sure I saw Melksham arguing with hooker or another backman at some point (correct me if I'm wrong). Just hoping we can get it together and actually finish a season with good results!

 

[Costanza Velvet]

Opposition teams have worked out how important Hibberd is off half back and are now putting work into limiting his rebound. Things will be even more difficult now that Dempsy has gone down. Top quality sides like Hawthorn and Sydney normally have at least 3 running half backs with quality disposal. I know last season we had all sort of problems when Heath Shaw was being tagged and shut down to the extent that it meant we had to rely on Maxwell and Toovey for our defensive rebound which is pretty horrid. Perhaps Goddard will have to play off half back in the meantime to mitigate the times when one of them gets shut down.

& in fairness to Carlisle I don't think any defender in the AFL beats Cloke when he is given a 1v1 contest so often. He is beaten when Collingwood are so one dimensional in delivering to him that a 2nd defender can peel off and also with his horrendous kicking obv. Today was one of the few times in the last 2 seasons that Collingwood didn't player directly through him and he also got a lot more ball upfield as a result of us wanting to take advantage of Reid v Fletcher.

Excellent post.
Also well done on resisting the temptation to mock us and drop the ever so tiresome drug cheat comment.

 

[yaco55]

Posted weeks ago that Hibberd would be targetted by the opposition. In theory, this should have allowed Dempsey off the leash, but he got injured, and his form has dropped off. Hibberd is still defensively sound, but he isn't getting possessions outside the defensive fifty - Which is hurting the team.

 

[rines]

Not sure how to approach this other than to just post different thoughts.


1. Whether or not we lose points, which I very much doubt we will, there is a strong possibility that due to factors which are well beyond the control of the players we will finish 2013 not having learned too much about our side for 2 years. The bullshit this year speaks for itself and the toll exacted by the ASADA investigation cannot ever be discounted.

In 2012 it was injuries which ripped the heart our of the season (Robinson, you ******* idiot, the injuries were the reason we had to stop training, Dr Wilicourt provided us with his analysis of the players' blood which confirmed as much).

2. Leading on from 1 is that we may be treading water in terms of list management/development. We've brought in a number of mature guys who have not looked close to being the sorts of players needed to continue the development and positive evolution of the list and the theory was that we needed cover this year because we weren't confident that the players' bodies would hold up this year.

3. We need to more closely consider the relationship between fadeouts and coaching.

I have little faith in the tactical preparation of the side. For all of the criticism of Knights, and North and other sides, for attacking game plans when we lose we get absolutely belted. 2.5 years into the Hird reign in which defence is supposed to be king, we are shithouse at defending the ground and controlling the tempo of play in order to conserve energy. The only reasponse our coaching panel seem to have is to ask the players to play on quicker, run harder and faster through the corridor.

Lack of tactical nous is also highlighted in team selections, positioning of players and questionable match ups. Today was the lightest side we have selected. We were packed with outside runners and small forwards for wet whether footy against the side with probably the deepest running midfield in the competition who was also playing for its pride.

4. Leading on from 3 is that I think we are simply being found out. Collingwood answered our switching of the play and attempts to transition through the corridor every time. When the heat was on early they were simply able to sweat on us to turn the ball over as we approached out own 50m arc.


I think that ultimately if we are going to be reliant on supreme conditioning in order to be competitive we are going to lose a battle that is impossible to win.

Not often we agree Bruno.. but top post mate. I think you pretty much summed it up perfectly and I hope TRB will take it as a manifesto.

Some of our selections have been baffling and I too have serious questions about the long term sustainability of our game plan and style over the course of a season. I am also very very concerned at the fact that we haven't seemed to get much development out of our midfield stocks this year.. Kav/Browne etc etc haven't really come on. Merrett has played some games but hardly set the comp on fire. Seems that we have stalled a little bit and we are STILL short on quality mids.

The early season form of Howlett and mates gave false hope that we were deeper and probably more developed than we actually are. Need to recruit MORE MIDFIELDERS.. or trade to get them.

 

[table tennis]

Well it's been fun.

 

[Bombers36]

Slide is definitely on. The last week or so I think is the first time this whole ASADA thing has affected the players, and it's certainly affecting the coach:

Hird: Some of the coaching decisions yesterday were very questionable, if he was REALLY focused on game day it would be fine- but in light of eveything that's going on I don't think he can be, so why not let Bomber take the reigns until this shit is sorted out...

Gumby: Can't remember the last time he had an impact at AFL level. Sadly he's just not up to it and will be gone at the end of the year

Jetta/Colyer: Downhill skiers who really need to lift before even being considered best 22

Fletch: Hate to say it mate but this has to be your last year - hasn't looked good for a while now

Zakka/Crameri: What's going on with these guys? Their best is great but are both becoming frustratingly inconsistent

Hurley/Winders/Dempsey: This perennially injured trio need to stay on the park coz we desperately need them fit and firing. Winders has only played 11 games from 19, and Hurley not much better with 14 (and 2 or 3 of those hes sat on the bench injured), and Dempsey with 14 from 19 also but going down injured again yesterday and unlikely to add to that tally any time soon....

Kommer/Merrett: Started well and have tried hard but have both tired and neither able to have an impact for the past month. at least we have something to work with with these guys and they'll be OK after another pre-season.

I hate to say it but it's looking very similar to last year, and unless we can turn things around very quickly against and eagles side who will be desperate to win to make the 8 we are finished. All in all very bloody disappointing.....

 

[The Prosecutor]

Yeah I think they are pretty solid suggestions. I'd really like us to poach a conditioning coach from a team that doesn't fade out through the season, like the Swans or someone.

It seemed to be mental just as much, if not more, than physical.

 

[Despair]

Probably going to cop it for this but I have to get it off my chest.

We aren't experiencing as dramatic a slide right now as people are thinking, we just quite arent "there" yet.

We lost all our games to the "yardstick" teams (SYD/HAW/GEE) and somehow even dropped a game to Brisbane.

I agree that the ASADA investigation is definitely taking it's toll, but you can only rely on "heart" for so long to get you over the line (CAR/WCE/FRE games) before structural inefficiencies are exposed.

Problems

• Genuine ball-winners, who are they? Watson can't be a one-man army every week
• Tackling... We have a serious problem with sticking tackles, I'm not sure whether it is our ferocity or our technique, but they arent sticking. If you are losing the possession game and losing the tackling game, what exactly are you doing?
• Forward line - Injuries happen, they're a part of the game and cannot be avoided, but out of all top 8 sides, we probably have the least synergistic forward-line. It has had no continuity and just doesnt operate like a winning forward-line should.

I'm hopeful that come finals time we can get a favorable match-up, maybe first game against Port, and snag a win and see where we go from there, as for next year - our list needs a good combing over. If we can pick up a goal-kicking midfielder that will go very far to putting us in a good position (I'd sell my unborn children to acquire someone like Wingard)

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Gumby: Can't remember the last time he had an impact at AFL level.

...round 4?

 

[fishardansin]

Should easily beat Eagles. Carlton are pretty much now finished. Should beat them. By the time we play Kangaroos, their season clearly done with also. That's the next 3 wins. Depending on form at the time & currently injury list, if we play to our normal game plan and it's not raining, we should beat tigers.

5th spot would be nice, as we'd probably play Port at Etihad week 1 in the finals.

We should finish top 6 at worst. Pies have a very hard run home. We have it a bit easier but we still got to win though.

I don't want to pick on you dude, and much of what you write is true ..... but ...

I don't want to have to approach games relying on their season being finished or if the weather is of a certain type. Through the first half of the season we were out performing these teams so unless they improve massively I EXPECT Essendon to have a fitness team and plan that also makes sure we're out performing them at this stage of the season.

Also if the this really is a slide and not just a couple of weeks where outs combined with a dip in form and two quality opponents playing some of their best footy for the season then the footy department as a whole needs to reassess how it goes about things.

I think we will need to play more players with leg speed through the middle and we need to rotate players more so that anyone with a niggle gets a week or two to get over it. This can also mean that more endurance training occurs much later in the season because I am sick to death of seeing Essendon outnumbered at contest after contest.

I also think that there is something to say about vitamin D and how that makes you feel. I think the team as a whole should go away for most of the two weeks around the bye to get some sun on the skin and for some intensive training and bonding. There would be facilities that are professional enough in cairns or Darwin. If not build them up on some where.

I'd also like to see players who will be rested given similar breaks in the season.

 

[raskolnikov]

At least, unlike last year, we can't miss the finals, which may or may not be a good thing but yeah stick a fork in us. Really the slide probably began against the Bulldogs.

 

[lamaros]

Too many players behind the ball when we gain it.

To many players in front of the ball when we turn it over.

Not a lot of smart structure.

 

[Tassieboy]

Actually, lately the amount of Essendon players failing to get goal side in forward 50 contests/stoppages has been infuriating. Somewhere along the line these structures are just falling down.

 

[Bennett.]

I'd just like our guys to keep our feet...

 

[lamaros]

Actually, lately the amount of Essendon players failing to get goal side in forward 50 contests/stoppages has been infuriating. Somewhere along the line these structures are just falling down.

Yeah, I misarticualted. Too many players who have let their man go to space easily when we turn it over, I meant.

When we get it we have nothing. When they get it it's a stroll.

 

[bacon buster]

Too many players behind the ball when we gain it.

To many players in front of the ball when we turn it over.

Not a lot of smart structure.

that's pretty much it in a nutshell to be honest. was so obvious yesterday. was like a reversal of Anzac Day

 

[Lord Nicholson]

It's surely a product of the blind run-and-gun style of play. They'll dish it off to anyone running past, they never scythe through the opposition in the way that a really good side should and could. That's what I mean about tempo - they've been playing the "roll the dice" style from the opening bounce from about two months now. That's how you play when things aren't going your way, it's not how you dictate terms. And it's obvious that they do want to dictate terms when folks like Admiral PCness O'Brien is running rampant on his Pat Malone.

 

[fishardansin]

There is a bit of run and gun when we get the ball, but it wasn't all about that early on. Our mids won more of the ball than the opposition and when they didn't win it their pressure was good. All teams struggled to move the ball quickly against Essendon and this meant that they butted up against our zone and when we did managage to turn it over we had loose men every where and we could cut them up the other way.

The offence isn't an issue, it isn't like Knights or North are now. It is just about moving the ball quickly. In fact hitting up short targets isn't exactly run and gun. It requires skill and smarts. The aim is to stretch the defense so that forwards have space and if the opposition fold back to fill that space mids and half backs can get free and take running shots from 50m.

The issue is midfield pressure both offensive and defensive. This stems from not getting it enough, not using it well, not spreading hard enough. When the opposition get the ball their spread isn't covered. The lack of run through the middle needs to be addressed. If there are sore players then bring in O'Brien or Browne.

However, the run starts from behind and we need to rejig our defense. The run is completed with a lead up half forward and half forwards who work into the midfield to run and carry and deliver long.

BACKLINE:
Hurley is the most like a beast we have in the team. Let him make life hell for number 1 forwards. The best mark in our team is Carlilse, let him play the roll that Hooker has been playing and that Reid played at Collingwood back when they were good. Pears has been fantastic offensively in the last month. You can really see he has his confidence back. Playing him down back means that we have more options than Hibberd to carry the ball forward which allows us to play Hibberd purely as defensive when they are running a tag for him. Also Hurley can really hurt with his kicking so spreading Hurley, Demspey (when he returns), Hibberd and Pears means that the opposition wont be able to put too much work into any of them. Perhaps it is time to now play the last defensive spot as part of the midfield rotation with Myers, Heppell and Goddard playing 33% of the game their each, and perhaps being flexible with either Goddard or Heppell playing more than 50% if the opposition have decided to tag them.

Apologies Hooker and Baguely who have been great for much of the year, but that is the way I'd go. And to Fletch, love you bro but I wrote about this in your thread

Forwardline:
Gumby struggles in the wet ... oh well September will be dry! He is the best tall/lead/mark we've got. Lets play him as that and he can work hard to stretch the opposition by making searching leads that give mids and half backs something to kick to. Davey is our best goal sneak and is tackling like a demon in VFL, bring him in. Colyer has cleaned up his disposal. I want him and Winderlich helping the midfield to provide run and carry options FORWARD of a stoppage and Winderlich can also provide a lead up option and leading back towards the hot spot when play is wide. Crameri and resting ruck to play deep, with Davey. Crameri to have tackles added to his KPIs!!

Midfield:
Watson, we're still shit without him! Heppell is being tagged now, Stanton has struggled for a few weeks as has Goddard. Hocking coming back from injury and Howlett struggling enough to get dropped. Zaka also not in great form. Myers has had great patches but then disapeard for most of the game. It is a massive concern, that goes a lot deeper than Watson being out. Melksham has been the only positive over the last month, not that he's taking the game by storm but he's improving.

Apart from Zaka, who in that bunch breaks lines? Maybe Howlet, but only on the end of a chain of handballs. This is why having Pears run added to the back takes a lot of pressure off Dempsey and Hibberd. Then add the disposal of Myers, Goddard and Heppell rotating through there and we have a lot of offensive power, that will break lines. Colyer and Winderlich will assist to the run by pushing up, as will the options provided by Winderlich and Gumby.

With one of the defensive spots taken by a mid then we currently have Watson, Stanton, Howlet, 2 of the other three, Hocking, Melksham and Zaka. That is a decent midfield if Hocking and Howlet are playing their role well and there is enough form between Watson, Stanton, Heppell, Zaka and Goddard that at least one will get off the leash.

Players not it 21(and have played a game):
Hooker, Jetta, Kav, O'Brien, Hams, NLM, Browne, Merret, Daniher, Dell and Kommer.

O'Brien has to be considered for his defensive run, to me this is pressure on Howlett and Hocking. He would also be a good choice as sub.

Kav, Hams, Merret and Daniher ... come back next year!

NLM, has to be considered as sub for finals.

Jetta maybe as sub but his lack of intesity in any senior game this year has been sad to watch. It must be hard to be picked every week for a few years then get pushed to the fringes, but if they're playing Merrett and Kommer ahead of him surely he'd play with passion knowing that on talent and experience he has more to offer right now so it'd just be attitude, which should be easy to adjust with a pay packet over 200k and glory on the line!

Kommer, has played with intensity and it has been a fantastic first season. Still lacking in enough class that I'd play Colyer and Davey ahead of him for the rest of the season.

Dell, has improved a bit, but I'd still rate Davey ahead of him.

With that in mind my best 22 for the rest of this season is:

B: Pears Carlisle Dempsey
HB: Heppell Hurley Hibberd (intention Hs)
C: Stanton Watson Goddard
R:Ryder Hocking Zaka
HF: Colyer Gumby Winderlich
F: Crameri TBell Davey
I: Howlett Myers Melksham
S: NLM

KPIs
Tackles and uncontested marks, both our and oppositions.

 

[BrunoV]

How in the name of god can you justify omitting Hooker for Pears? Hooker would be on verge of top 5 in best and fairest and was one of the few winners we had yesterday. Pears has hardly broken even as a key defender/third tall all year since 2009.

I'm also not sure that I appreciate the distinction drawn between the attacking game plans and what is happening under Hird. When the sides are shit enough flooding the midfield with a static zone seems to keep the scoring low. When we play against good sides they have routinely carved us up.