Is This Luke Ball All Over Again?

[Squizz]

Next time you flog, put in the WHOLE quote, i said "in hindsight"....

AS for Wellingham, he was offered WITH pick 30 when North wouldnt deal with collingwood for pick 25. Collingwood were trying to get pick 25 from North and then offer that. When North said NO, collingwood offered pick 30 and wellingham.

Post the whole quote - it makes no difference (still full of fail).

And you're making the rest up.

"Lyon said it was a dispute over draft picks that left the deal unresolved. 'We just couldn't get a deal done in the end. It was 25 and 62 on the table, we were unlikely to use 62 (in the draft) and in our view 25 wasn't going to get Luke Ball done - we didn't think that was an equitable trade, so we stood our ground.' "

 

[Squizz]

Alot can change in 6 months.......... As did my opinion of Dawson and i am the first to admit it.....

Why would anyone care when you posted? You think it's OK to bag Lyon and Zac on this board without offering any facts in support? As for being "the first to admit it", a thread was devoted to apologies for Zac - did you miss it? were you away? locked up for your own protection?

 

[StFly]

AS for Wellingham, he was offered WITH pick 30 when North wouldnt deal with collingwood for pick 25. Collingwood were trying to get pick 25 from North and then offer that. When North said NO, collingwood offered pick 30 and wellingham.

There's a rather large difference these days with media reports on information (let alone to do with sport) and factual content, sensationalism sells papers and pushes agendas and this is the primary concern of printed media these days.

Collingwood supporters pushed the line on reporters towing the line that pick 30 (the eventual pick used) and Goldsack / Wellingham were offered, as Squizzy has posted, there's also media reports floating around in which Ross states what was offered (BS or not) which one do you then choose to view as fact?

25 + 62?
30+Goldsack?
30+Wellingham?

Whichever matches your argument of course.

You cannot categorically state as fact, and neither can Squizzy, myself or anyone else on BF that a trade was 100% not done because X+Y did not equal Z.

Because we weren't there, and the two clubs that were have varying views on what was offered to each party.

 

[sr9767]

There's a rather large difference these days with media reports on information (let alone to do with sport) and factual content, sensationalism sells papers and pushes agendas and this is the primary concern of printed media these days.

Collingwood supporters pushed the line on reporters towing the line that pick 30 (the eventual pick used) and Goldsack / Wellingham were offered, as Squizzy has posted, there's also media reports floating around in which Ross states what was offered (BS or not) which one do you then choose to view as fact?

25 + 62?
30+Goldsack?
30+Wellingham?

Whichever matches your argument of course.

You cannot categorically state as fact, and neither can Squizzy, myself or anyone else on BF that a trade was 100% not done because X+Y did not equal Z.

Because we weren't there, and the two clubs that were have varying views on what was offered to each party.

I heard the it was Pick 30 and Wellingham and as i said, in hindsight it would have been a fair trade. And yes, unless you were actually there, you dont know all the facts. I gave my opinion on what i had heard as does everyone else here. Did i "Categorically state as fact" that it was gosple??? NO i did not. As you said, NOBODY apart for those who are there were privy to all the discussions regarding the deal.

 

[Squizz]

Yes i did miss it, i dont get on the computer that often due to WORK. Do you know what WORK (having a job) is??? YOU are a FLOG and insinuating that i was locked, shows how much of a FLOG you really are.... Little Boy

Now tell me, did RL play drop ball???? Did RL sit ball in the bench for most of the 2nd half in the GF last year????

The vast majority of posters on this board have jobs (WORK even!). But because they care about the club, they contribute to the board positively (and occasionally with some constructive criticism).

What's drop ball? Did you see Lyon playing it? Does your WORK condone this activity and your massacring of the english language?

To all the regular posters on the board - why didn't you tell me that I'm a flog? All these years ... I had no idea.

Must say I'm happy with the little boy reference after some Collingfilth poster said I was too old to debate with. If I average the comments of two morons, I must be looking OK. I'm getting a new set of bathroom scales too ... my current one doesn't have me in the "little" category. But I feel slimmer already!

 

[sr9767]

The vast majority of posters on this board have jobs (WORK even!). But because they care about the club, they contribute to the board positively (and occasionally with some constructive criticism).

What's drop ball? Did you see Lyon playing it? Does your WORK condone this activity and your massacring of the english language?

To all the regular posters on the board - why didn't you tell me that I'm a flog? All these years ... I had no idea.

Must say I'm happy with the little boy reference after some Collingfilth poster said I was too old to debate with. If I average the comments of two morons, I must be looking OK. I'm getting a new set of bathroom scales too ... my current one doesn't have me in the "little" category. But I feel slimmer already!

hey flog, did Ross Lyon drop Luke Ball???? Did Ross Lyon sit Luke Ball on the bencdh for most of the 2nd half of last years GF loss to Geelong???

I work 6-7 days most weeks and am doing 12-14 hour days. The last thing i am interested in is using a computer!!!!!!!!!

I still buy a club Membership even though i dont attend games, that is what a real supporter does, parts with their money to assist the club they support regardless of actually going to games to watch. Squizzy, you are a FLOG so give up, or do you work at Inghams with some other flogs that i know??????

 

[Squizz]

I work 6-7 days most weeks and am doing 12-14 hour days. The last thing i am interested in is using a computer!!!!!!!!!

So why are you still here? Get back to WORK!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The collingflog supporter said that it was our fault that bally left and he is right. Bally was quite clearly annoyed by Ross Lyon after he was dropped twice (i think during the year) and the way he was shafted in the GF was a joke. I was pissed off that Ross Lyon and co didnt do more to keep him here. And i also think (with the help of hindsight) that pick 30 and Sharrod Wellingham were fair composation for loosing bally seeing as though we got nothing for him in the end. Aslo, as the collingflog supporter stated, Ross Lyon didnt think that Bally was in our best 22 do what do you want him to do????? Play at Sandringham?????

Pull your head out of your rectum as if i remember right, both players are PREMIERSHIP players, and what did we get from it, the same result as the GF you flog, absolutely NOTHING

Yeah Ball was underperforming and got dropped. In fact his games prior to getting dropped were absolute crap. It's happened to others DalSanto and Milne. While they made a clear effort to meet the coaches requirments, ( the Coach is the one whe decides what they all should be doing remember ), precious little Bally cracked the sads and left.

You are just an abusive piece of faeces. If we still had Ball in the squad and lost you would be carrying on about how Ross hadnt played the youngsters. You are not constructive at all. Piss off

 

[The Panther]

I've never seen a supporter base remain as bitter & of the feeling to rehash the Luke Ball "trade" as I've seen by St. Kilda here. I'm not even sure Luke would give last years trading period a passing glance.

You rolled the dice with Ball & lost. Accepting it is the first sign your club has moved on.

 

[Squizz]

I've never seen a supporter base remain as bitter & of the feeling to rehash the Luke Ball "trade" as I've seen by St. Kilda here. I'm not even sure Luke would give last years trading period a passing glance.

You rolled the dice with Ball & lost. Accepting it is the first sign your club has moved on.

So Luke's moved on - but Collingwooooood posters keep re-appearing on the St Kilda board about it?

Filth supporters _ucking off would be an equally good sign. Probably equally as likely to occur.

 

[Kildonan]

This thread remains off topic.

While it may have Luke Ball's name in the title, the thread is actually about Collingwood's behavior in the last two trade periods (and there may be other examples before this). The Luke Ball trade was clearly under a cloud of suspicion because he was a player who would have been drafted by almost any other club had they been able to re-arrange their contracts to provide adequate funds to accommodate him, had they been able to interview him and had they been able to do a fitness test on him.

The very next year - enter Chris Tarrant - after being traded through a complex deal which I think involved Tarrant leaving to Fremantle in exchange for Pick #7 and Paul Medhurst. Now Collingwood value Tarrant as essentially pick #55* when recruiting him back. Tarrant basically made himself unavailable to any other club by stating that he would retire if recruited by any club other than Collingwood.

In both years Collingwood get to pay either no cost or seriously under the actual market price. As I have stated there are more examples in the past as well, but the tendency is now towards a serious loss of trade regulation. Basically Collingwood are getting away with highway robbery and the club is thumbing their nose at the victim clubs by getting away with it again and again and again and again and again.

*Collingwood gain Chris Tarrant and pick #44
Fremantle gain #43 and #55

 

[HoldenMCaulfield]

To all the regular posters on the board - why didn't you tell me that I'm a flog? All these years ... I had no idea.

Well, now that you ask for it - you little teenage flog, Squizzy.

Just kidding - this board would be boring without you.

Other than maybe the smell of napalm in the morning, there's nothing like watching Squizzy deal with the Collingwoood morons thinking anyone here cares about them or whatever they try to say (Dave86 being one of the very few exceptions).

 

[jerry springer]

This thread is about Collingwood cheating / bending the rules repeatedly. This time it is Fremantle who are getting bent over.

Collingwood supporters will blame Tarrant and Ball, but both players needed to be provided with serious numbers and confirmation of club intententions before being able to proceed along the respective paths they chose. In other words collusion ---> draft tampering.

Was Fraser Gehrig and St kilda draft tampering when he said he would retire if any club other than St Kilda drafted him?St Kilda then drafted him at pick number 57

awaiting your reply with interest.

 

[thomas_m18]

Was Fraser Gehrig and St kilda draft tampering when he said he would retire if any club other than St Kilda drafted him?St Kilda then drafted him at pick number 57

awaiting your reply with interest.

Different scenario. Gehrig was trying to return to our club, not leave. No other club had anything to lose by us drafting him, and few clubs would have drafted him anyway, considering how old and beaten he was. From memory, we were the only club interested. Even clubs like Adelaide and the Dogs who were crying out for key forwards said no.

he said he would retire if any club other than St Kilda drafted him

He said that?

 

[jerry springer]

He said that?

Yes he said that.is that draft tampering or not?

 

[thomas_m18]

Yes he said that.is that draft tampering or not?

Not really, because we didn't pledge to pick up Gehrig. There was no agreement between the two parties and we simply picked him, like we would any other player, because we thought he would be the best option at that spot. There was no interest from any other club so when Pick 57 came around and he was still there, we picked him.

Besides, we had no idea he'd nominate. Completely out of left field. There was interest from other clubs, so I'd assume that meant he was open to a career at another club, but it just so happened that St Kilda had the urge to pick him up.

Then again, you'll argue that there was no agreement between Tarrant and Collingwood either.

http://www.afl.com.au/Default.aspx?tabid=208&newsId=53852

“My heart’s at St Kilda, my heart’s not anywhere else,” Gehrig said.

“This is the only club I wanted to play for, and I dare say, if any other club had of been silly enough to have picked me up then they would have been wasting a pick.”

If that's the quote you're referring to, Gehrig didn't say he'd retire if he didn't get to St Kilda. He said that they'd be wasting a pick. Subtle difference, but still difference.

 

[StFly]

Was Fraser Gehrig and St kilda draft tampering when he said he would retire if any club other than St Kilda drafted him?St Kilda then drafted him at pick number 57

awaiting your reply with interest.

Check your source material for the actual quote and the context because your loaded questioning does wonders for how little you actually know about the material.

1) Gehrig had retired as of 1st September 2007 denoting that his playing contract was T-E-R-M-I-N-A-T-E-D with the AFL once it was lodged.

2) As per AFL instruction he then nominated for both the ND & PSD whereby taking up a new contract (2 year) if picked up.

He could not be traded.
He did not designate that no one could pick him up.
He did not place a specific contract upon himself as was his right.

He stated that since his retirement was presumptuous (and in hindsight proved to be the right time to go) that he would remain in retirement unless the Saints wanted him back.

This is different to a player threatening action if a club does not do as he wishes, which is the claim leveled against both Ball and Tarrant;

"Trade me to Collingwood or I walk / retire" does not translate to the Gehrig situation.

Collusion requires that the parties get together beforehand, which tends to happen with trade scenario's, gestures of "Grace" tend to happen when other clubs bequeath opportunity to allow a player to get to their destination unhindered, which tends to happen with past players who place a desire to go back to X club.

Unless of course, you're going to make the same claim to Salmon as well?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Maybe it was a plot by Gehrig to rip off StKilda to the benefit of StKilda (rolls eyes).

 

[Squizz]

Gehrig had retired

"Awaiting his response with interest"

Actually, no I'm not.

What a typically woeful analogy from a Collingfilth poster, with a lie thrown in for good measure. Even Jerry Springer would not be amused with that rubbish - and he is easily amused.

 

[premiers06]

*Deleted*

 

[SaintsSeptember]

*Deleted*

Please take note of exhibit a, demonstrating that the average IQ of a Collingwood supporter is somewhere between that of an adolescent Rabbit and one of the lesser primates.

 

[Squizz]

Please take note of exhibit a, demonstrating that the average IQ of a Collingwood supporter is somewhere between that of an adolescent Rabbit and one of the lesser primates.

David Attenborough continues:

"The Collingwood supporter in it's natural habitat, whilst usually content to roll in it's own filth, occasionally ventures into unfamiliar territory to exchange wits with a rival. However, quickly realising it is not a particularly intelligent animal, the Collingwood supporter resorts to throwing faeces at the rival before calling for assistance from others - often being able to combine their minds to form half a brain. Typically, they eventually concede and find another member of the family to fornicate with. A disgusting sight, even for an experienced observer such as myself."

 

[jerry springer]

If that's the quote you're referring to, Gehrig didn't say he'd retire if he didn't get to St Kilda. He said that they'd be wasting a pick. Subtle difference, but still difference.

Dont be so naive.Love to have a intelligent conversation but the hypocrisy on this thread is amazing

Adios

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Dont be so naive.Love to have a intelligent conversation but the hypocrisy on this thread is amazing

Adios

Well who do you claim was the victim, ( re Tarrant / Fremantle ) in the case of Gehrig.
I'm sure you would love to have an intelligent conversation but you seem to be missing the vital ingrediant. ( Though credit where it's due, you do know the word hypocrisy which is one of those big four syllable jobs ).

 

[jerry springer]

Well who do you claim was the victim, ( re Tarrant / Fremantle ) in the case of Gehrig.
I'm sure you would love to have an intelligent conversation but you seem to be missing the vital ingrediant. ( Though credit where it's due, you do know the word hypocrisy which is one of those big four syllable jobs ).

Its quite apparent that what Tarrant's manager said and did, through his actions in the media constituted a form of draft tampering.Ball as well.They scared of potential clients through their comments and actions(or lack of actions in Ball's case).Simple as that

Gehrig's comments also were along these lines.The "victim" for your interest is unknown and will stay unknown because he scared off any potential suitors.

Its been happening for years and will continue until a more flexible free-agency comes in(not in the format it is coming in,in 2012 as that is still too rigid).Until then Players,managers and all clubs will manipulate the draft anyway they can to get a edge(or a cheap player at a bargain price)