News It's "Us against Them" in 2012

[Blessed]

Wasn't aware the Pies were a part of that.

The whole theme of the News Ltd Empire is conspiracy.

They were found out in England..

But their stain is here as well.

Think of the big picture Lenny.

 

[Lensen]

The whole theme of the News Ltd Empire is conspiracy.

They were found out in England..

But their stain is here as well.

Think of the big picture Lenny.

I give up.

 

[Shellz]

Just another slow AFL news day, so the Herlad Sun use it as another chance to sell newspapers and create an agenda by putting a disharmony article about Collingwood in their newspapers. Just give us another whack to the head cause they can.

This is exactly what I mean and it isn't even in-season...

Where is an article about Andrew Walker wanting a slice of the Pie from images of his great mark.

The media belts us to death whenever it can. All publicity is not good publicity.

And the rest of the AFL world and supporters lap it up.

That is why it is Us v Them.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...rom-massive-mark/story-e6frf9jf-1226190700437

lol Beamer must cringe every time he sees that photo

 

[Blessed]

That is what they want you to do Lenny.........Give Up.

That is why it is so important for all Collingwood fans to stick together, under the banner of Us v Them.

It takes a whole city of non-Collingwod supporters 24/7 worth of vile hate to try and compete with us. What they want you to do is give up.

But a Collingwod supporter never gives up. He fights and fights.

For he knows; it is always Us v Them.

Them being every non-Collingwod supporter full of hate.

 

[DermiesLuvChild]

I would not be surprised to see the umpire 'air brushed' out of the campaign images (similar to the Blair hand signal at the NAB cup presentation).
Other than that, I think the campaign is an accurate reflection of the actual football landscape in general.
The objective of the campaign is to 'play' on this situation & garner more support & desire to join the collingwood army to boost the 'us' numbers against 'them'.

 

[sirene]

To some (most) extent I agree with Blessed.
I was disappointed when I saw the headline today re: Krak; I think the headline and some of the article suggests more animosity towards Collingwood from Krak, rather than at the whole system (which I think is actually his managers point).

How hard would it have been to have the headline, "Cats floundering, lost old blood and now no leader"....or something to that effect. (DISCLAIMER: I do not believe this, I simply am agreeing with Blessed, it would be just as easy to sensationalise Geelong’s article as it was to Collingwood’s.) If it is Collingwood, then it is news, now lets make it as SENSATIONAL as possible! (media viewpoint)

For the record.....I LOVE THE SLOGAN! EVERY MORNING WHEN I SEE THAT ON MY DESKTOP, I FEEL THE LOVE.....

And as far as the umpire, I feel all footy fans feel it is their team against the umps....check out the MRVP threads before you disagree....

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

My boss is a Melbourne supporter. I reckon he goes to about 2 games a year maximum. But every meeting we have, he spends the first half hour on a diatribe of how much he hates Collingwood and Collingwood supporters. Every second day. Like it is original and no one has heard it before...and he thinks he is funny.

If African Americans or Chinese people coped that much abuse, they would call it racial vilification. Just look at the minimum stuff said about Tiger Woods by his former caddie and how the press is all over that.

Yet Collingwood and Collingwood supporters can be abused - left, right and centre...without any form of censure.

Sometimes we don't even get to the topic of the meeting..

Prime example of how this hatred, which I am not even sure where it comes from? The 1950s probably. Drives his every thought about football.

He doesn’t really support his own team, he watches the AFL to hate Collingwood.

It is like being the villain at the Wrestling!

Wow that is really offensive and shows how you obviously have no sensitivity towards racial discrimination. When legislation permits Collingwood supporters to sit at the back of the bus or a genocide against Collingwood supporters by Australians or even Collingwood supporters being slaves to the rest of Australia then you can compare it to discrimination.

Lenny has also beaten you on every point in this one sided debate so I'll just reiderate his arguments.

Collingwood sell the most papers and so you will get the most both negative AND positive articles. While I take your point that some non AFL people hate Collingwood because that's the going thing but I think glorifying guys like Joffa within your cheer squad only heightens the hate for Collingwood. Collingwood also give themselves a bully like reputation with arguments like clash guernseys against North Melbourne. Many people would disagree with you that Collingwood get a bad rap from the AFL because of issues such as that. And umpires are umpires, all supporters think they're against their team so get over yourself.

FWIW I don't think it's a good slogan or picture. The picture makes you look weak because from what I can tell the entire AFL world is overunning the insignificant Collingwood players (the only other interpretation I had was that they were going for a 300 spartans thing?)

Collingwood has the largest supporter base. It should celebrate that fact. "70,000 and counting" or something like that. Playing victim only comes across as annoying. Look powerful instead of looking determined.

 

[Swooop]

That'a a pretty well constructed point of view Filthy Sanchez.

However, i do think there's room for both sides to have a decent argument and there's plenty of middle ground for you and Lenny to share with Blessed's views, even though you may not see it.

I didn't much like it initially, but it's growing on me a bit.

Overall, like you say, something like, " The Army; 70,000 and growing - Side by Side" would be a more positive spin to put on it.

 

[Blessed]

Wow that is really offensive and shows how you obviously have no sensitivity towards racial discrimination. When legislation permits Collingwood supporters to sit at the back of the bus or a genocide against Collingwood supporters by Australians or even Collingwood supporters being slaves to the rest of Australia then you can compare it to discrimination.

Lenny has also beaten you on every point in this one sided debate so I'll just reiderate his arguments.

Collingwood sell the most papers and so you will get the most both negative AND positive articles. While I take your point that some non AFL people hate Collingwood because that's the going thing but I think glorifying guys like Joffa within your cheer squad only heightens the hate for Collingwood. Collingwood also give themselves a bully like reputation with arguments like clash guernseys against North Melbourne. Many people would disagree with you that Collingwood get a bad rap from the AFL because of issues such as that. And umpires are umpires, all supporters think they're against their team so get over yourself.

FWIW I don't think it's a good slogan or picture. The picture makes you look weak because from what I can tell the entire AFL world is overunning the insignificant Collingwood players (the only other interpretation I had was that they were going for a 300 spartans thing?)

Collingwood has the largest supporter base. It should celebrate that fact. "70,000 and counting" or something like that. Playing victim only comes across as annoying. Look powerful instead of looking determined.

Mate you obviously were not around the week after the Grand Final in Melbourne, because Collingwood supporters were vilified all day, every day.

On one hand you reckon other people are allowed to play the victim mentality, yet Collingwood supporters aren't.

How is that fair mate?!??!

Everyone's allowed to be able to walk down the street without being shat on by people who think it is a joke.

Yet you have one rule for one and another rule for another.

Double standards mate.

That is what you allude to.


Collingwood are bullies are they?!?!?

That is crap. We give more money to North Melbourne than any team in the AFL. But you seem to forget that Fact, mate. North wore their jumper this year and lost by over 10 goals so it didn't help them. But still we gave them money.

Joffa does more for the poor and the needy than 5,000 other blokes. You know nothing of Joffa mate.

Yet you generalise.

Just like you accuse Collingwood supporters of doing.

Facts don't seem to be your strength.

I have more sensitivity to racial issues in my little finger than you have in your whole body. I have had to deal with them my whole life.

But you don't know me mate.

You just generalsie because I am a Collingwood supporter. Like you did with poor Joffa..

Which is exactly my argument mate.

Thanks for proving me right.

 

[eddiebankbalance]

What EVER is popular will always fight against those trying to bring it DOWN. Why fight it? How about our players do their thing on the ground, and the rest is history!

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

What I was saying was I don't think you should compare football teams to racial discrimination or anything of that sort. Just remember we are one of the lucky sports in the world where fans can sit side by side and leave the game together. You won't see riots after a team loses or melees between fans, altercations at an AFL match only occurs when involving alcohol in which case the team of support doesn't particularly matter.

You really should put football into perspective mate. While football may be mine and your number one passion like many others in Australia, at the end of the day it is just a game, the "discrimination" as you call it is nothing compared to race prejudices that exist throughout the world.

As for Joffa I was talking about the way he is perceived and conducts himself at matches. I'm not saying other cheer squads don't have less than desirable members, I just think the way he has been given a cult like status at the club with movies etc. is pretty ridiculous. From a neutral perspective it's pretty easy to see why it annoys people.

In regards to North Melbourne, reputation isn't built over one year, I was simply trying to show you how the AFL isn't out to get Collingwood like you seem to think with your little conspiracy theories. AFL will do whatever brings in the $$$ and most of the time that benefits Collingwood with big Friday night blockbusters etc. because let's face it, nobody stirs a reaction and interest like Collingwood.

And I'm sorry that you thought losing a grand final would be an enjoyable experience, do you think Geelong fans were given a friendly handshake of goodwill by Hawthorn supporters after 08? Come on mate, it's all part of it.

And if barracking for Collingwood really does cause you such social trauma of which you consider to be on the same level of racial discrimination then I have two questions for you.

1. Why do you choose to be a public Collingwood supporter when you would apparently suffer much less socially as a Melbourne supporter for example?

2. How could promoting social barriers be a good marketing message? How are you supposed to bring new supporters to your club with the tag "come to Collingwood, everyone hates you...but join anyway!" Surely it would be better to have the potential buyer thinking "70,000+ members!? Holy shit they must be good!" more likely to attract new followers don't you think?

Swooop, I thought "Collingwood Domination, the envy of the nation" was a terrific mix of positivity yet arrogance to the rest of the competition. Something similar to that would've been good is all I'm trying to say.

 

[sirene]

Wow, just wow!

I have so many other things to do right now, but, I just can not help responding to you. I could argue nearly everyone of your points but, I am really only going to respond to two.

FWIW I don't think it's a good slogan or picture. The picture makes you look weak because from what I can tell the entire AFL world is overunning the insignificant Collingwood players (the only other interpretation I had was that they were going for a 300 spartans thing?)

Collingwood has the largest supporter base. It should celebrate that fact. "70,000 and counting" or something like that. Playing victim only comes across as annoying. Look powerful instead of looking determined.

To me this comes from a supporter of a victim mentality supporter/team. As a Collingwood supporter, born and bred, I find strength in the fact it does not matter if we have one member or 100,000 members we are on the side together; bottom of the ladder, middle or top, does not stop my blood running black and white!

1. Why do you choose to be a public Collingwood supporter when you would apparently suffer much less socially as a Melbourne supporter for example?

Secondly, I do not CHOOSE to be a Collingwood supporter….I WAS BORN ONE. NOTHING WILL CHANGE THAT EVER! Maybe that is the difference between being US as opposed to THEM???

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

Secondly, I do not CHOOSE to be a Collingwood supporter….I WAS BORN ONE. NOTHING WILL CHANGE THAT EVER! Maybe that is the difference between being US as opposed to THEM???

That question was targeted solely at Blessed because he is claiming that barracking for Collingwood has subjected him to prejudices the equivalent of racial discrimination that he apparently struggles to cope with.

And keep in mind when Collingwood are setting up their membership campaign there aim shouldn't be the diehard fans. You guys will buy your memberships regardless of whether the slogan is Us vs them or something as simple as "Collingwood 2012: just sign up"

Therefore the marketing team is targeting people who are yet to decide a football team, or are unsure whether buying a membership is worthwhile. Personally I don't think glorifying notoriety really does much for that audience.

It's great that you don't care how many members you have, but I can tell you it makes a difference to kids who are starting to get into football and people picking teams. Marketing Daisy, Swan, Pendlebury and Cloke would be much more eye catching and suitable for the audience whose decisions are influenced by marketing campaigns.

 

[Blessed]

What I was saying was I don't think you should compare football teams to racial discrimination or anything of that sort. Just remember we are one of the lucky sports in the world where fans can sit side by side and leave the game together. You won't see riots after a team loses or melees between fans, altercations at an AFL match only occurs when involving alcohol in which case the team of support doesn't particularly matter.

You really should put football into perspective mate. While football may be mine and your number one passion like many others in Australia, at the end of the day it is just a game, the "discrimination" as you call it is nothing compared to race prejudices that exist throughout the world.

As for Joffa I was talking about the way he is perceived and conducts himself at matches. I'm not saying other cheer squads don't have less than desirable members, I just think the way he has been given a cult like status at the club with movies etc. is pretty ridiculous. From a neutral perspective it's pretty easy to see why it annoys people.

In regards to North Melbourne, reputation isn't built over one year, I was simply trying to show you how the AFL isn't out to get Collingwood like you seem to think with your little conspiracy theories. AFL will do whatever brings in the $$$ and most of the time that benefits Collingwood with big Friday night blockbusters etc. because let's face it, nobody stirs a reaction and interest like Collingwood.

And I'm sorry that you thought losing a grand final would be an enjoyable experience, do you think Geelong fans were given a friendly handshake of goodwill by Hawthorn supporters after 08? Come on mate, it's all part of it.

And if barracking for Collingwood really does cause you such social trauma of which you consider to be on the same level of racial discrimination then I have two questions for you.

1. Why do you choose to be a public Collingwood supporter when you would apparently suffer much less socially as a Melbourne supporter for example?

2. How could promoting social barriers be a good marketing message? How are you supposed to bring new supporters to your club with the tag "come to Collingwood, everyone hates you...but join anyway!" Surely it would be better to have the potential buyer thinking "70,000+ members!? Holy shit they must be good!" more likely to attract new followers don't you think?

Swooop, I thought "Collingwood Domination, the envy of the nation" was a terrific mix of positivity yet arrogance to the rest of the competition. Something similar to that would've been good is all I'm trying to say.

Mate; racial vilification is only one form of abuse. What about the others you so conveniently forget. What about calling people a *******, a ******, ....or a feral, no teeth, no hoper..

It is all the same to me.

It is abuse.

Race issues are one thing. But basically it is a bully mentality towards another group of pepole and that is exactly what happened in Melbourne post the Grand Final to Collingwood fans through the media and in the streets.

So you can call it whatever. It doesn't matter.

Racial, mental, whatever type of vilification it is.

It is the same thing!!!!

Abuse!

I never said the AFL was out to get Collingwood mate. The AFL look after Collingwood cause they make more money for them than any of the other franchises. Probably 4 times as much tbh.

As for Joffa. He is the consummate supporter. Treats others fantastically. Other teams supporters come and have their photo with him.

You have fallen for the television and media stereotype again mate.

You have fallen for the 3 card trick!!!!!

You haven't read my posts very closely

1. I answer that by saying, why don't black people decide to colour their skin white to stop the abuse!?!?! Because they are proud of who they are and shouldn't have to face abuse. I should be able to be proud of being a Collingwood supporter without being abused. It should be a free world...

2. Mate. Read the thread again. They aren't promoting social barriers. They are saying the rest hate us....they abuse us....we can't control them and as much as we hate it...we need to accept..it is US v Them!!

We didn't start it...but it is the only way it can be.

Mate, re read every post in this thread.

You have missed the point of it completely!!!

 

[Blessed]

And keep in mind when Collingwood are setting up their membership campaign there aim shouldn't be the diehard fans. You guys will buy your memberships regardless of whether the slogan is Us vs them or something as simple as "Collingwood 2012: just sign up"

Therefore the marketing team is targeting people who are yet to decide a football team, or are unsure whether buying a membership is worthwhile. Personally I don't think glorifying notoriety really does much for that audience.

Wrong again Mate. They are targeting Collingwood supporters they want to be members and current members they want to renew their membership.

People make up their mind who they support themselves.

The Collngwood Football Club is trying to make supporters become members.

 

[sirene]

That question was targeted solely at Blessed because he is claiming that barracking for Collingwood has subjected him to prejudices the equivalent of racial discrimination that he apparently struggles to cope with.

How do you know that he/she is not just like me? How do you know if either of us has been subjected to racial/sexual, etc predjudice beyond being Collingwood supporters?

And keep in mind when Collingwood are setting up their membership campaign there aim shouldn't be the diehard fans. You guys will buy your memberships regardless of whether the slogan is Us vs them or something as simple as "Collingwood 2012: just sign up"Therefore the marketing team is targeting people who are yet to decide a football team, or are unsure whether buying a membership is worthwhile. Personally I don't think glorifying notoriety really does much for that audience.

While being a diehard fan, this coming year is actually the first year in a very long time that I will be a member (personal reasons, not relevant to this thread are the reason), and truthfully the “us vs them” slogan has increased my desire.

It's great that you don't care how many members you have, but I can tell you it makes a difference to kids who are starting to get into football and people picking teams. Marketing Daisy, Swan, Pendlebury and Cloke would be much more eye catching and suitable for the audience whose decisions are influenced by marketing campaigns.

My kids range between under 1 and under 6, and I can tell you they are already B&W, 3 of them can sing the song, when they see anyone in a Collingwood Guernsey they shout out “Collingwood” AND when we went to the zoo last weekend and they saw a magpie (the real bird), they started singing the song…..sorry, not all kids wait to “get into football”!

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

Quite frankly I find it insulting that you think a lame joke about all Collingwood supporters having no teeth is to be put on the same levels as I gave earlier such as racial vilification. When Collingwood supporters start getting bashed due to pre meditated attacks outside the MCG or during everyday life then you'll have a case.
I just think your getting carried away with it all a bit.

I don't think somebody being called a name that makes fun of metal impairment is ever acceptable but if you think that type of name calling only happens to Collingwood supporters then that's just ridiculous.

Now back on topic. At the end of the day it comes back to marketing. You've failed to point out how "US vs them" promotes new supporters to buy memberships. Not everybody will come from a Collingwood household, and these potential new customers are unlikely to be sold on the fact that the other 17 clubs don't like them.

You say I've fallen for the media trick but isn't that the point of marketing? I'll stick to what I've been saying the entire time of which you conveniently ignored in answering question 2, Collingwood have so many positives at the moment that could attract new buyers, instead they've chosen to pump up a small sector of Collingwood supporters who would've bought memberships regardless of the slogan. I'm sure Collingwood will have very strong membership numbers anyway but I don't think this particular tool will be responsible for any new signings.

 

[sirene]

Really, you think there will be NO new signings with this campaign? You can not acknowledge that for someone who is sitting on the fence, they may think, "wow, that will make me part of the biggest supporter group in the AFL"....while I am willing to admit it may not attract all fence sitters, I sure as sh*t believe there will be one or two swayed.

And maybe, mmmmm, just maybe, as a Richmond supporter you do not see the allure....mmmm, maybe!!!!

 

[Old Spice]

Now back on topic. At the end of the day it comes back to marketing. You've failed to point out how "US vs them" promotes new supporters to buy memberships. Not everybody will come from a Collingwood household, and these potential new customers are unlikely to be sold on the fact that the other 17 clubs don't like them.

You say I've fallen for the media trick but isn't that the point of marketing? I'll stick to what I've been saying the entire time of which you conveniently ignored in answering question 2, Collingwood have so many positives at the moment that could attract new buyers, instead they've chosen to pump up a small sector of Collingwood supporters who would've bought memberships regardless of the slogan. I'm sure Collingwood will have very strong membership numbers anyway but I don't think this particular tool will be responsible for any new signings.

Anyone who is timid about other people's opinions will hardly be attracted to Collingwood, well not for long. The slogan is hardly an earth shattering revelation to anyone who has professed to be a Pies supporter and has the minutest interest in football.

Those looking for a soft ride have plenty of other options.

The slogan doesn't appeal just to a minute vanguard just as it wont appeal to those on the very outer periphery. What it does do is coalesce an outer core who like / love Collingwood and don't want to be on the outer and suffer the slings as an individual, but stick it up all the gob-shites by joining an army.

 

[sirene]

but stick it up all the gob-shites by joining an army.

EXACTLY....it is the further extension of "Side by Side", it is the natural embodiment of the Collingwood Army! Look at Adelaide's slogan this year, " we play better with a 19th man"....this is in a way acknowledging the power of Collingwoods Army.

 

[Ed D]

Quite frankly I find it insulting that you think a lame joke about all Collingwood supporters having no teeth is to be put on the same levels as I gave earlier such as racial vilification. When Collingwood supporters start getting bashed due to pre meditated attacks outside the MCG or during everyday life then you'll have a case.
I just think your getting carried away with it all a bit.

I think you're the one getting carried away with it. All that was mentioned was the the amount of abuse that the average Collingwood supports gets would not be acceptable if it was about a race instead. If you're insulted by that remark then you're jumping to conclusions and/or reading between the lines.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

I am one of the the people who agreed with the similarities between being a Collingwood supporter and racial vilification and I, by no means, were describing it to the extent of extreme segregation or physical violence.

What you see are people judging a person by the fact that he or she is a Collingwood supporter. Now it's not as extreme as needing to preach about it, but it does make you wonder how in a time, where any kind of segregation is now looked down upon, that people are still allowed to have an unjustified hatred/dislike towards someone because they support Collingwood

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

While we may disagree on the level of oppression placed on Collingwood my basic premise still hold firm regardless of how much you think the rest of the AFL is out to get Collingwood.

Marketing works best when promoting the positive aspects of the organization of which there are plenty of at Collingwood. As I said earlier the picture makes you look weak because your totally outnumbered by the rest of the AFL. Which in reality is not true because the other 17 clubs aren't one united front, they're all out trying to do the same thing as Collingwood.

For example if Richmond have the slogan "It's time to prove everyone wrong" or "It's been long enough" while it resonates with our supporter base, it would be totally stupid because people don't want to be reminded of the negative aspects of the football club and will detract more than it would encourage. Bucks really should've been the centerpiece of the entire campaign like Hird was last year for Essendon.

I think I've overstayed my welcome. It's been an interesting debate and I'm sure Collingwood will smash membership numbers in 2012 regardless of slogans.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

As I said earlier the picture makes you look weak because your totally outnumbered by the rest of the AFL. Which in reality is not true because the other 17 clubs aren't one united front, they're all out trying to do the same thing as Collingwood.

I'd disagree by the amount of facebook groups that are created in the past two years, heading into and after October.

 

[Blessed]

You say I've fallen for the media trick but isn't that the point of marketing? I'll stick to what I've been saying the entire time.

So you have dabbled in the gruesome and grotesque. You have come across the board to look at the freaks in the freak show.

Collingwood supporters.

We are not much different from other teams supporters; my friend. The hyperbole and the bad mouthing of us isn’t true. We are a cross section of the community just like any other set of people. We have passion and pride. But we are informed and we care.

Go back to your Richmond buddies and spread the word. Collingwood supporters are good fun to talk to.

Come back again, anytime.

We are always happy to debate and listen.