Player Watch Jack Crisp

[jackcass]

Right, ok.

I suggested having Pendles off-back and midfield split 50-50, not because it's his best position, but because it's the best for the team, we have very few actually damaging and reliable kicks to set up plays off half-back. We do not fully utilise Pendles' kicking skills at clearances, as it's very hard for inside mids to do anything but bomb it inside 50 these days.

Pendles offensive ability at contests has never been doubted, I think you're missing the point here. It's his tackling and defensive aspect that concerns me, we cannot have both Treloar and Pendles letting opposition mids run free. Treloar can't play another position so by default Pendles goes back as it's theoretically the best for the team.

Crisp doesn't have what it takes to be a capable off half-back. He doesn't break lines, he doesn't have elite footskills, and his kicks don't have depth either. He can be an OK shut-down defender in a pocket, but not at half-back.

Happy to agree to disagree on Pendles. Pointless playing him behind the ball where his lack of pace is exposed for no good reason rather than use him at the coalface.

Ditto Crisp. I think he's currently doing a fair impersonation of someone who's capable off HB or BP. You see an occasional shank and think it's an issue, I see what just about every footballer playing the game does, you see his kicking lacking depth, I see great depth and penetration in his kicking which when coupled with his run and carry is exactly what we need, you see him as a BP rather than a HB, I can't see the delineation in this instance.

 

[jackcass]

Fair enough.

The problem with Crisp is not his speed. He just lacks awareness and seem to get caught way more times than he should, agility ok but not great either, then you have his abysmal kicking.

Compare him to Shaw, Williams, Wilson, Roberton, Laird, Docherty, Tuohy?

What weapon does he have? In what area does he stand-out as a half back?

Compare him with those guys when they'd played the same number of game in that position as Crisp?

 

[BringouttheGimp]

I thought Zachariah Chrisp did well at HBF.. Definitely a much better option than Smith and Ramsay.

 

[mike123]

Compare him with those guys when they'd played the same number of game in that position as Crisp?

Don't really get this argument, changing positions doesn't exactly change anyones attributes. Sinclair didn't become quicker when he moved down back he had his speed for everyone to see. Leon Davis didn't out of the blue become a great kick when moved down back and his one handed pick ups that set up some of our rebounds where also on display before he moved down back. In fact if we were to compare him with Davis at similar games in the role Davis would be well ahead.

I didn't watch too much of Adelaide at the time but I remember when their supporters didn't rate Laird. Wilson was always a long accurate kick with plenty of pace, the question was whether he'd put it all together not if he had enough weapons. Similar Williams both Marley and Zac have always had a great side step out of traffic and took on the game.

Overall I'm fine with Crisp in the backline, one of the coaching staffs best moves this year, he has pace and a long left boot. I'd argue his lack of agility gets hidden in the backline better as there is more space to run in straight lines. In contested situations he'd often try to run through tacklers because he didn't have the agility to get around them. For mine he looks like he can turn into a better kicking less agile Lumumba.

Sure I understand that you'll see some other things with players playing a different role but Crisp has played nearly 70 games the weapons he's showed at this point aren't going to drastically change because of Anne's role.


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[jackcass]

Don't really get this argument, changing positions doesn't exactly change anyones attributes. Sinclair didn't become quicker when he moved down back he had his speed for everyone to see. Leon Davis didn't out of the blue become a great kick when moved down back and his one handed pick ups that set up some of our rebounds where also on display before he moved down back. In fact if we were to compare him with Davis at similar games in the role Davis would be well ahead.

I didn't watch too much of Adelaide at the time but I remember when their supporters didn't rate Laird. Wilson was always a long accurate kick with plenty of pace, the question was whether he'd put it all together not if he had enough weapons. Similar Williams both Marley and Zac have always had a great side step out of traffic and took on the game.

Overall I'm fine with Crisp in the backline, one of the coaching staffs best moves this year, he has pace and a long left boot. I'd argue his lack of agility gets hidden in the backline better as there is more space to run in straight lines. In contested situations he'd often try to run through tacklers because he didn't have the agility to get around them. For mine he looks like he can turn into a better kicking less agile Lumumba.

Sure I understand that you'll see some other things with players playing a different role but Crisp has played nearly 70 games the weapons he's showed at this point aren't going to drastically change because of Anne's role.


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It's not that hard really, even the best have to learn to play a position and learn their role. Most get to do that at junior level or at VFL level. Crispy has only recently been thrown into the role and people throw up elite players by position and lament that he's not as good as them while completely ignoring that even those elite players weren't as good when they first started in those roles. I'd expect gradual improvement every time he plays there.

 

[Prochard123]

Compare him with those guys when they'd played the same number of game in that position as Crisp?

Yes, read the second half of my comment next time. I'm not comparing their current overall ability, I'm asking for an area Crisp is good at in comparison with these guys that makes him a good HBF

 

[TW Sherrin]

Don't really get this argument, changing positions doesn't exactly change anyones attributes. Sinclair didn't become quicker when he moved down back he had his speed for everyone to see. Leon Davis didn't out of the blue become a great kick when moved down back and his one handed pick ups that set up some of our rebounds where also on display before he moved down back. In fact if we were to compare him with Davis at similar games in the role Davis would be well ahead.

I didn't watch too much of Adelaide at the time but I remember when their supporters didn't rate Laird. Wilson was always a long accurate kick with plenty of pace, the question was whether he'd put it all together not if he had enough weapons. Similar Williams both Marley and Zac have always had a great side step out of traffic and took on the game.

Overall I'm fine with Crisp in the backline, one of the coaching staffs best moves this year, he has pace and a long left boot. I'd argue his lack of agility gets hidden in the backline better as there is more space to run in straight lines. In contested situations he'd often try to run through tacklers because he didn't have the agility to get around them. For mine he looks like he can turn into a better kicking less agile Lumumba.

Sure I understand that you'll see some other things with players playing a different role but Crisp has played nearly 70 games the weapons he's showed at this point aren't going to drastically change because of Anne's role.


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its a significant change.

a mid is always around the ball and unless he is tagging he is doing his own thing.

at half back, he is watching a man and waiting for the ball to come to him. he's got to learn when/where forwards run, when to get off his man and when to attack. half back is a crucial position in setting up play so he has a bit to pick up.

 

[jackcass]

Fair enough.

The problem with Crisp is not his speed. He just lacks awareness and seem to get caught way more times than he should, agility ok but not great either, then you have his abysmal kicking.

Compare him to Shaw, Williams, Wilson, Roberton, Laird, Docherty, Tuohy?

What weapon does he have? In what area does he stand-out as a half back?

Here you go, the entire post.

Yes, read the second half of my comment next time. I'm not comparing their current overall ability, I'm asking for an area Crisp is good at in comparison with these guys that makes him a good HBF

You're the 1 who wrote it. Maybe write what you mean if that isn't what you intend.

I think he's generally a good kick, has good length and penetration although predominantly left sided, reasonable to good mark, reasonable 1v1, good tackler, reasonable agility and evasion, great pace for his size, reads the game well, takes the game on and rarely gets caught when he does.

Where is it written that any footballer needs a stand out area to allow him to play a position. I'll happily take a player with a broader range of attributes than 1 stand out attribute.

 

[mike123]

its a significant change.

a mid is always around the ball and unless he is tagging he is doing his own thing.

at half back, he is watching a man and waiting for the ball to come to him. he's got to learn when/where forwards run, when to get off his man and when to attack. half back is a crucial position in setting up play so he has a bit to pick up.

That doesn't change Crisps speed, kicking ability, overhead marking etc


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[surfer1]

I like him there

 

[TW Sherrin]

That doesn't change Crisps speed, kicking ability, overhead marking etc


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My apologies. Misread your post.

 

[Prochard123]

Here you go, the entire post.



You're the 1 who wrote it. Maybe write what you mean if that isn't what you intend.

I think he's generally a good kick, has good length and penetration although predominantly left sided, reasonable to good mark, reasonable 1v1, good tackler, reasonable agility and evasion, great pace for his size, reads the game well, takes the game on and rarely gets caught when he does.

Where is it written that any footballer needs a stand out area to allow him to play a position. I'll happily take a player with a broader range of attributes than 1 stand out attribute.

I know what I wrote, I'm merely stating that you comprehended the passage wrongly.

 

[jackcass]

I know what I wrote, I'm merely stating that you comprehended the passage wrongly.

Understood what you were implying in your response. I comprehended as written. There isn't much ambiguity in a single sentence "compare him with.... ". If you meant the question in a specific context then include it rather than expect us to guess correctly. And then don't try to suggest the error lies in the reading or comprehension of others with antagonistic read it properly next time style comments.

 

[jackcass]

That doesn't change Crisps speed, kicking ability, overhead marking etc


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No it doesn't, but equally it doesn't change those attributes for those elite HBFers Crisp is being compared to and doesn't alter the fact they weren't elite when they started at HBF.

 

[Prochard123]

Understood what you were implying in your response. I comprehended as written. There isn't much ambiguity in a single sentence "compare him with.... ". If you meant the question in a specific context then include it rather than expect us to guess correctly. And then don't try to suggest the error lies in the reading or comprehension of others with antagonistic read it properly next time style comments.

If it was free from ambiguity then there shouldn't be a problem.

Antagonism is the word you're looking for here. Or with AN antagonistic read. Wasn't going to point it out but you kind of forced my hand.

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

Was very good after quarter time.

Worst in ground in the first twenty minutes. Those two turnovers in the corridor were horrendous.

 

[jackcass]

If it was free from ambiguity then there shouldn't be a problem.

Antagonism is the word you're looking for here. Or with AN antagonistic read. Wasn't going to point it out but you kind of forced my hand.

Exactly, free from ambiguity and I responded approprietly and in context. Your the one struggling to see the clear correlation.

Nothing wrong with my use of antagonistic as written. I'll pass on your English lessons thanks. I rely on my writing skills for my job and it'd be a shame to put that at risk.

 

[Prochard123]

Exactly, free from ambiguity and I responded approprietly and in context. Your the one struggling to see the clear correlation.

Nothing wrong with my use of antagonistic as written. I'll pass on your English lessons thanks. I rely on my writing skills for my job and it'd be a shame to put that at risk.

Right ok this is getting nowhere, let's put an end to this.

 

[mike123]

No it doesn't, but equally it doesn't change those attributes for those elite HBFers Crisp is being compared to and doesn't alter the fact they weren't elite when they started at HBF.

No but they showed attributes that could make them elite in that role.


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[jackcass]

No but they showed attributes that could make them elite in that role.


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And exactly how many elite rebound defenders are there in the league? And exactly how many defenders play each week? I'm not sure why there is an obsession with "elite" or comparing players with some who are at that level when very few players make that grade. I'll settle for good or better, consistent, and rarely beaten in my defenders as a baseline. Crisp shows that he's capable of at least that. It's nothing more than a bonus if an occasional 1 goes on to be any better than that.

 

[Finnishpie]

I thought Zachariah Chrisp did well at HBF.. Definitely a much better option than Smith and Ramsay.

He is better at running off his opponent. He has pace and some height too. I liked it.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

He is better at running off his opponent. He has pace and some height too. I liked it.

Been calling for it all yr mate.

 

[ash84]

Pendles rates him.

 

[mike123]

And exactly how many elite rebound defenders are there in the league? And exactly how many defenders play each week? I'm not sure why there is an obsession with "elite" or comparing players with some who are at that level when very few players make that grade. I'll settle for good or better, consistent, and rarely beaten in my defenders as a baseline. Crisp shows that he's capable of at least that. It's nothing more than a bonus if an occasional 1 goes on to be any better than that.

To win premierships you need elite players all over the ground. The obsession is pretty simple. But I'm fine with Crisp in this role anyways as I've mentioned previously I think he a decent ceiling in this role.


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[Finnishpie]

Been calling for it all yr mate.

Good one Gimp. Considering the bizarre decisions on from the match committee, you should get a gig next year!