Jack Darling

[WCE_phil]

He wouldn't be doing that as our primary forward, that was the point of my post.

Goalless in 2 out of 3 games since Kennedy went down. We've already got plenty of mid-sized forwards who can do that, and who don't embarrass themselves by diving in the process.

Except you know he kicked 50 goals in a season as our number 1 forward with no kennedy in 2012.

 

[Feerits Elf]

Name them then, it should be an easy process since you think the number is so high

Betts, Jenkins, Walker, Daniher, Lynch (GC), Hawkins, Cameron, Garlett, Brown, Dixon, J Riewoldt, Bruce, N Riewoldt, Franklin, Stringer, Kennedy plus I included Hogan (who scored 44 and 41 in 2015 and 2016 and was on track to score 40+ in 2017 until he took time off for cancer treatment) and Greene (who is on track to score 40+ in 2017 and only kicked 39 in the regular season in 2016, but that's still more than Darling is projected to score in 2017).

If you object to the inclusion of Greene I'm happy to settle for 17.

 

[Scotland]

Kicked 44 last year as second banana.

Adelaide had 2 talls do better plus Lynch kick 42. And Betts kick 75. Yeah get ****ed Adelaide.
Brisbane had Walker kick 23.
Carlton Casboult 18.
Collingwood Moore 24.
Essendon Daniher 43.
Freo Pav 31.
Geelong Hawkins 55 then Kersten 22.
GC Lynch 66 then Wright 27.
GWS Cameron 53, Patton 38, Lobb 29.
Hawthorn Gunston 51, Sicily 30.
Melbourne Hogan 41, Watts 38.
North Brown 41, Waite 29.
Port Dixon 30, Westhoff 23.
Richmond Riewoldt 48, Vickery 26.
St Kilda Membrey 44, Riewoldt 41.
Sydney Franklin 81, Tippett 17.
Bulldogs Stringer 42, Dickson 40. Neither are true 'talls'.

Kicked more goals than the best tall of 9 teams and more than the the second best tall of every team except Adelaide.

I still don't like him but he is marked hard.

 

[kane249]

Betts, Jenkins, Walker, Daniher, Lynch (GC), Hawkins, Cameron, Garlett, Brown, Dixon, J Riewoldt, Bruce, N Riewoldt, Franklin, Stringer, Kennedy plus I included Hogan (who scored 44 and 41 in 2015 and 2016 and was on track to score 40+ in 2017 until he took time off for cancer treatment) and Greene (who is on track to score 40+ in 2017 and only kicked 39 in the regular season in 2016, but that's still more than Darling is projected to score in 2017).

If you object to the inclusion of Greene I'm happy to settle for 17.

Season with 40+ or more since 2011 (* is a sides primary key forward)
Franklin 6*
J.Riewoldt 6*
N. Riewoldt 5*
Kennedy 5*
Hawkins 5*
Darling 4
Cameron 3*
Lynch 3*
Jenkins 3
Walker 3*
Hogan 2*
Stringer 2*
Dixon 1*
Daniher 1*
Brown 1
Bruce 1

So of the list you provided (I excluded the small forwards in Betts and Garlett), Darling sits 5th in terms of consistent 40 goals a year performances with the only ones ahead of him being primary key forwards.

BTW 2 you missed out
Gunston 4
Roughead 4

 

[Sando22]

Difficult to comment on him as he was missing on Saturday.

 

[Feerits Elf]

Season with 40+ or more since 2011 (* is a sides primary key forward)
Franklin 6*
N. Riewoldt 5*
Kennedy 5*
Hawkins 5*
Darling 4
Jenkins 3
Walker 3*
Hogan 2*
Stringer 2*
Dixon 1*
Daniher 1*
Brown 1
Bruce 1

So of the list you provided (I excluded the small forwards in Betts and Garlett), Darling sits 4th in terms of consistent 40 goals a year performances with the only ones ahead of him being primary key forwards.

Why have you excluded Jack Riewoldt (6), Tom Lynch (3) and Jeremy Cameron (3)?

 

[kane249]

Why have you excluded Jack Riewoldt (6), Tom Lynch (3) and Jeremy Cameron (3)?

Apologies I missed them, either way Darling still stacks up pretty favourably as all 3 are primary forwards.

Have included them now

 

[Feerits Elf]

Apologies I missed them

No worries.

Whether a player is a team's "primary forward" as opposed to a "secondary forward" would seem to be a subjective judgement, but in my view the following 13 are "primary forwards" that meet your criteria:

Walker
Daniher
Lynch (GC)
Hawkins
Cameron
Hogan (for reasons given above)
Brown
Dixon
J Riewoldt
Bruce
Franklin
Stringer
Kennedy

If it's assumed that all other forwards are "secondary forwards" (why split hairs between a tall and a small?) then the following meet your criteria:

Betts
Jenkins
Greene (for reasons given above)
Garlett
N Riewoldt
Darling

You could also make the case for the inclusion of Luke Breust who’s scored 30, 39, 37, 53, 45 and 43 over the past six seasons and should score 30-40 again this year as a secondary forward.

So yeah, there's 13 other players in the AFL that are contributing 40+ goals a season as their side's primary forward and I reckon it's reasonable to say there's a further half a dozen that are contributing 40+ goals a seasons in a role as a secondary forward, five of which (Betts, Greene, Garlett, Nick Riewoldt and Jenkins) are projected to score more this year than Darling.

 

[kane249]

No worries.

Whether a player is a team's "primary forward" as opposed to a "secondary forward" would seem to be a subjective judgement, but in my view the following 13 are "primary forwards" that meet your criteria:

Walker
Daniher
Lynch (GC)
Hawkins
Cameron
Hogan (for reasons given above)
Brown
Dixon
J Riewoldt
Bruce
Franklin
Stringer
Kennedy

If it's assumed that all other forwards are "secondary forwards" (why split hairs between a tall and a small?) then the following meet your criteria:

Betts
Jenkins
Greene (for reasons given above)
Garlett
N Riewoldt
Darling

You could also make the case for the inclusion of Luke Breust who’s scored 30, 39, 37, 53, 45 and 43 over the past six seasons and should score 30-40 again this year as a secondary forward.

So yeah, there's 13 other players in the AFL that are contributing 40+ goals a season as their side's primary forward and I reckon it's reasonable to say there's a further half a dozen that are contributing 40+ goals a seasons in a role as a secondary forward, five of which (Betts, Greene, Garlett, Nick Riewoldt and Jenkins) are projected to score more this year than Darling.

You missed the important word from my original post, consistently.

The stats from 2011 onwards highlight this where Darling's performed as well as a lot of teams key forwards, and has out performed the majority of secondary key forwards.

He gets marked at a standard that a lot of forwards would/have failed to match.

 

[Feerits Elf]

You missed the important word from my original post, consistently.

No, I was responding directly to the your post where you asked how many other players in the AFL were contributing 40+ goals a season as their side's primary forward let alone as their secondary forward and the word consistently was not mentioned.

 

[kane249]

No, I was responding directly to the your post where you asked how many other players in the AFL were contributing 40+ goals a season as their side's primary forward let alone as their secondary forward and the word consistently was not mentioned.

Did you read the rest of that post where I mentioned the stats since 2011 or did you just cherry pick the first sentence?

Either way my point still stands, he's been a consistent goal kicker which a lot of key forwards (primary or secondary) in the AFL can't match.

 

[matt_bas]

Jack Darling would be a best 22 player in any team. The hate on him is unwarrented. Should be a 3rd tall option but is used out of position and still competes. Problem is he started his career with a bang so everyone expects him to be the next Wayne Carey when he's not that player. Kennedy's gone on record before saying how hard Darling works to free up space for him to get the ball. Does his role.

 

[Feerits Elf]

Did you read the rest of that post where I mentioned the stats since 2011 or did you just cherry pick the first sentence?

What do you mean cherry pick?

The first sentence of the post asked how many other players in the entire competition were contributing 40+ goals a season (i.e. had done previously and were on track to do it again this season). The remainder of the post was a comparison of Darling's record since 2011 against three Fremantle players for the benefit of estibador so was irrelevant to the question posed in the first sentence.

For reference, first sentence (which I quoted verbatim and to which I responded directly):

He's contributing 40+ goals or more a season, how many other players in the AFL are doing that as their sides primary forward let alone as their secondary forward like he is?

Remainder of post (which I didn't quote, to which I didn't respond directly and which had no bearing upon my response):

Or to put it in perspective for you, 40+ goals since in a season since 2011

Darling 4 (Had a season of 39 as well just missing out)
Pavlich 3
Ballantyne 1
Walters 2

If you don't think having him in your forward line would have improved Fremantle, than your delusion / Eagles bias runs a lot deeper than first thought.

I recognise that you're going in to bat for your boy but you keep moving the goalposts (same thing keeps happening to Darling, it seems ).

 

[Happy Mastenator]

What a pea heart.
Looked for him Saturday night, shame he wasn't selected.

Difficult to comment on him as he was missing on Saturday.

No one liked it the first time round so stop trying to make this happen.....

 

[kane249]

What do you mean cherry pick?

The first sentence of the post asked how many other players in the entire competition were contributing 40+ goals a season (i.e. had done previously and were on track to do it again this season). The remainder of the post was a comparison of Darling's record since 2011 against three Fremantle players for the benefit of estibador so was irrelevant to the question posed in the first sentence.

For reference, first sentence (which I quoted verbatim and to which I responded directly):


Remainder of post (which I didn't quote, to which I didn't respond directly and which had no bearing upon my response):


I recognise that you're going in to bat for your boy but you keep moving the goalposts (same thing keeps happening to Darling, it seems ).

Are you going to debate the point or try to argue semantics to try and change the goal posts to suit you?

In terms of consistency, he's putting up 40+ a year which a lot of key forwards in the league can't match.

 

[Feerits Elf]

Are you going to debate the point or try to argue semantics to try and change the goal posts to suit you?

It's not a semantic argument to explain that I didn't incorporate consideration of the irrelevant portions of your post into my response to your direct question.

You asked a stats question, I answered it. If anything, you should be thanking me.

I'll leave the debate about how shit Darling is or isn't to others in the thread.

 

[Scotland]

So he's being compared to smalls now as well? Cool.

LeCras has kicked 47, 30, 30, 45, 38 playing with Darling. Hill 40 in 2015, Cripps 34. Even Nicoski kicked 41 in 2011. Is Darling supposed to kick all of the goals?

Since the start of 2011 he's kicked 249 goals.

Breust, Gunston (1 in 2010) and Cameron (debuted 2012) are the only ones who've kicked more from debut. Tex, Hawkins, Petrie, Cloke, Kennedy, Roughead, both Riewoldts and Franklin with 250+ in the same period having debuted earlier.

So out all players of all shapes and sizes from 2011 to present he is 13th for goals kicked. You'd think he was 113th.​

 

[Bender571]

The guy you drafted instead contributed about zero.

Darling would've played 2011-2014 at least alongside Pavlich so he wouldn't have been the forward saviour. Freo went into the 2013 GF with Pav, Mayne and Zac Clarke. Hard to argue Darling wouldn't have been a better second tall in that group.

In 2013 he was in the top 5 for pressure acts of any forward above 190cm.

Game plans of course suit some players perfectly and alienate others completely but I'd suggest a 2013 Jack Darling would've been more useful to the Dockers than 2013 Chris Mayne.

Yes, he shat his pants in 2015 GF etc etc *insert gif of ball bouncing off his chest here*

Mayne was in the 2013 All Australian squad, Darling was not. Not saying either was better, just that it's not clear cut.

 

[Sando22]

No one liked it the first time round so stop trying to make this happen.....

Found him yet?
Could be swimming around in one of those salty salty lakes forming over in that part of the world

 

[Kakkle]

I think he is marked harshly because of how well he did when he came first came into the league. Has certainly peaked, and I'd be surprised if he reached another level, but you'd still take 35-40 goals a season from him for the next 5 seasons.

 

[Forward Press]

Jack Darling - 3 goals, 4 goal assists, 18 touches (11 of them contested), 7 marks (5 inside 50).

On track for a 40 goal season.

Maybe this is the best he can do but I'll take it every time.

 

[Lolbert]

Deserves criticism but showed up today. Getting some confidence back.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

He and Gaff fighting for BOG today

I agree with some sentiments above - as a second key forward - he goes OK

His issue was at 19 - he looked like being an absolute jet - and has plateaued (and staged)

The one thing he has always had though is intent to tackle

 

[Altum Volantes]

Hardest marked player in the league I think - reminds me of Chris Tarrant or Jack Gunston though - he's not a true KPF and would likely play better as a tall half forward.

 

[Scotland]

Played a key forward's game today. Brought a lot of balls to ground and created goals for the smalls.

In one contest he was tackled and ducked under the tackler/threw him off and handballed to Cripps who kicked an arsey goal. That's what you want to see from Darling, would've been easy for him to try and milk a high contact free or settle for a ball up.