Jarad Waite

[XXX KINGS]

With the impending departure of Thornton, does anyone else agree that it's time for Waite to make the move into the backline? Thornton leaving creates a huge hole and looking at our list, we dont really seem to have a ready made replacement. Hartlett has question marks on him, O'Hailpin needs more time to learn the game, Whitnall simply doesn't have the pace and Bower is too young.

As it also stands, a forward line of Fevola, Kennedy, Waite and Fisher whilst being very talented is way too top heavy. One of those players have to play somewhere else and of those I think Waite is the most versatile. He isn't slow, he can take a good mark and strength isn't an issue. If Silvagni signs with us as an assistant coach it could be the perfect opportunity for Waite to learn the craft of playing at full back. I think this move would solve both these problems in one move although there is a risk involved in that if this doesn't work, Waite's continuing development as a forward will be set back.

Do we take the risk?

 

[murph#3]

i believe we can use waite the way west coast use hunter. waite is 4cm taler and just as athletic, his kicking is probably a lot worse but physically he's capable of doing everythng hunter does so a pinch hit in the backline then in the forward line wehrever we need him could develop into a really good utility and i hope a lot that kennedy can solve the problem at chf though i have my doubts, he's probably too big but now that he's grown out to 198cm but im sure we can work something out with him and waite.

 

[Bluebear]

Agreed. I have suggested this many times. I just don't think his kicking is up to it in the forward line. Could be a Fletcher type backman IMO.

 

[waitey]

With the impending departure of Thornton, does anyone else agree that it's time for Waite to make the move into the backline? Thornton leaving creates a huge hole and looking at our list, we dont really seem to have a ready made replacement. Hartlett has question marks on him, O'Hailpin needs more time to learn the game, Whitnall simply doesn't have the pace and Bower is too young.

As it also stands, a forward line of Fevola, Kennedy, Waite and Fisher whilst being very talented is way too top heavy. One of those players have to play somewhere else and of those I think Waite is the most versatile. He isn't slow, he can take a good mark and strength isn't an issue. If Silvagni signs with us as an assistant coach it could be the perfect opportunity for Waite to learn the craft of playing at full back. I think this move would solve both these problems in one move although there is a risk involved in that if this doesn't work, Waite's continuing development as a forward will be set back.

Do we take the risk?

yeh i agree, if we don't draft someone like Nathan Brown and Hartlett is still risky, waite could be tried down there. We should play him there in every practise match and NAB pre season match next year and let kennedy take CHF. Waite needs to be accountable and close to hes man at all times though, iv seen him play defense before and he tends to zone off.

Iv always used the Hunter comparison, and if Waite can really learn how to be a backman, then he could be a very damaging player. He is actualy quite kick for his size, so he will easily be able to keep up with quick leads, he has a good reach, big long arms, which will be good to spoil, and has natural aggression which is something i like. I would love to see him spoiling in defense and then gathering the ball and bursting off the half back line and kicking a big penetrating kick into the forward 50.

If he can learn how to be a backman, and we also draft a guy like Nathan Brown and Hartlett comes good, then Waite can be a utility like hunter and move from defense to the forward line and be an impact player, this will cause massive match up problems for the opposition. I think waitey is really one of the most talented players on the list, but has been hampered by injuries and is a kind of confidence player. In 2005 and 2003 he was terrific and his confidence was up. 2006 and 2004 he was injured and couldnt string games together to get some confidence.

I am predicting big things from him in the next coming years and hopefully next year without injury, he can really take that next step.

 

[Jeremias]

No!
How quickly we forget! Who remembers what happened last time we moved a forward into defence (before Lance)

Never again

If waite moves anywhere, it will be into the midfield. But NOT to the backline.

 

[XXX KINGS]

No!
How quickly we forget! Who remembers what happened last time we moved a forward into defence (before Lance)

Never again

If waite moves anywhere, it will be into the midfield. But NOT to the backline.

If you're referring to Livingston I think you should consider the fact that injuries have ruined him as well as the notion that maybe he simply was never up to AFL standards. A promising junior career means nothing when push comes to shove, just because he was drafted early doesn't mean he was a certainty to make it. He isn't the only top five pick to not make it and the player who was taken with the selection after him turned out to be a spud as well.

There are a host of players who started their careers in the forward line and ended up as terrific defenders. Chad Cornes and even our full back of the century in Steven Silvagni started their careers there. I'm pretty sure that even Waite's father made a succesful switch there in his playing days. Waite is still relatively young so it's not like he has reached the point where he can no longer learn as a footballer. If we sign Silvagni who is already gaining a reputation as being a terrific defensive coach I think it would be in our best interests to use him in turning Waite into a full back. If he can turn LRT into someone who goes close to winning a Norm Smith then I just wonder what he is capable of doing with someone like Jarad.

I don't think you should use the one experience with Livingston as a factor in this move. The fact that you also mentioned Whitnall in your post who has gone from an AA CHF to almost being an AA CHB further illustrates this point.

 

[murph#3]

If you're referring to Livingston I think you should consider the fact that injuries have ruined him

and they are doing the same thing to waite as well...

 

[mediumsizered]

With the impending departure of Thornton, does anyone else agree that it's time for Waite to make the move into the backline? Thornton leaving creates a huge hole and looking at our list, we dont really seem to have a ready made replacement. Hartlett has question marks on him, O'Hailpin needs more time to learn the game, Whitnall simply doesn't have the pace and Bower is too young.

As it also stands, a forward line of Fevola, Kennedy, Waite and Fisher whilst being very talented is way too top heavy. One of those players have to play somewhere else and of those I think Waite is the most versatile. He isn't slow, he can take a good mark and strength isn't an issue. If Silvagni signs with us as an assistant coach it could be the perfect opportunity for Waite to learn the craft of playing at full back. I think this move would solve both these problems in one move although there is a risk involved in that if this doesn't work, Waite's continuing development as a forward will be set back.

Do we take the risk?

Denis Pagan mentioned late in the season that he would be looking to try Waite in the back half next season. It would seem it is almost a certainty that he will play down back now that T-Bird is wanting to go.

 

[Jeremias]

If you're referring to Livingston I think you should consider the fact that injuries have ruined him as well as the notion that maybe he simply was never up to AFL standards. A promising junior career means nothing when push comes to shove, just because he was drafted early doesn't mean he was a certainty to make it. He isn't the only top five pick to not make it and the player who was taken with the selection after him turned out to be a spud as well.

There are a host of players who started their careers in the forward line and ended up as terrific defenders. Chad Cornes and even our full back of the century in Steven Silvagni started their careers there. I'm pretty sure that even Waite's father made a succesful switch there in his playing days. Waite is still relatively young so it's not like he has reached the point where he can no longer learn as a footballer. If we sign Silvagni who is already gaining a reputation as being a terrific defensive coach I think it would be in our best interests to use him in turning Waite into a full back. If he can turn LRT into someone who goes close to winning a Norm Smith then I just wonder what he is capable of doing with someone like Jarad.

I don't think you should use the one experience with Livingston as a factor in this move. The fact that you also mentioned Whitnall in your post who has gone from an AA CHF to almost being an AA CHB further illustrates this point.

Sure injuries have also ruined him, but we simply cannot underestimate the negative effects of poor player management on his career. Sure he wasn't a certainty to make it, but if he was drafted as a CHF the fact remains that he should have been tried there first. He hasn't been, and as a result his career has effectively been ruined.

Sure, Waite to defense may pay off, just as Livo to defence may have paid off. But what if it doesn't? There are huge potential risks, and they are big enough that, given the current position the club finds itself in, it should not even seriously consider taking. Waite has shown that he can and will be a very good player, injuries permitting, in the forward line and maybe up in the midfield later on in his career. Why would we want to change that? Draft a defender, develop some, but we simply cannot afford to keep robbing Peter to pay Paul. We have deficiencies, and we should fill them up not by taking players out of their current positions, but by drafting and development.

Waite is a vital member of our forward line. Do you not remember in 2005 he carried us basically single handedly when Fev was out? Specifically against the Hawks at TD. Waite has proved that he is dangerous up forward, and could well be our number 2 target behind Fev. We should NOT be moving him back. He is too important to our forward line structure.

 

[Jeremias]

Denis Pagan mentioned late in the season that he would be looking to try Waite in the back half next season. It would seem it is almost a certainty that he will play down back now that T-Bird is wanting to go.

Please no! Draft Nathan Brown, develop Harts, keep Setanta and Bower back there. But for the love of god, Denis, please don't move Jarrad back. He is too important up forward for us to even consider that.

 

[XXX KINGS]

and they are doing the same thing to waite as well...

The bad luck that Livo has had with injuries is incomparable to that of Waite.

 

[mediumsizered]

Please no! Draft Nathan Brown, develop Harts, keep Setanta and Bower back there. But for the love of god, Denis, please don't move Jarrad back. He is too important up forward for us to even consider that.

With the loss of Thornton we are most likely going to have to play Setanta at full back, with Lance continuing at centre half back. Bower would probably play as a running half back leaving either Harts or Brown (should we draft him) to play on the 3rd tall. I don't think either of those 2 will be ready for that role next year, so Jarrad could well be the man.

 

[mushda]

Agree, if Thornton is gone we should be trying this pre-season. I still think he should probably remain a forward as he has shown he can be very good there like that hawthorn game last year, but without Thornton we are going to be seriously stretched down back and it wouldn't hurt giving it a go pre season.

I think I can remember Waite playing on Pavlich last year and getting 9 kicked on him so he's not exactly a ready made defender.

 

[Jeremias]

With the loss of Thornton we are most likely going to have to play Setanta at full back, with Lance continuing at centre half back. Bower would probably play as a running half back leaving either Harts or Brown (should we draft him) to play on the 3rd tall. I don't think either of those 2 will be ready for that role next year, so Jarrad could well be the man.

Disagree. Get Harts ready via NAB and practice matches. He needs to be fast tracked. He is big enough to take the number 1 forward. He should get the job, Whitts on number 2 and Setanta number 3. Bower, Scotland and hopefully O'Brien the other 3 down there.

If we play Setanta on the oppositions best forward every week, we will be well and truly ****ed. At least Hartlett may be able to match them with footy smarts and strength. He has been playing the game for a hell of a lot longer than Setanta. Just hope to god that his body holds up-otherwise we may as well just concede every game

We REALLY need Thornton he leaves an enormous hole. Looking at these discussions, he would just about have to be our 2nd most important player.

 

[XXX KINGS]

Sure injuries have also ruined him, but we simply cannot underestimate the negative effects of poor player management on his career. Sure he wasn't a certainty to make it, but if he was drafted as a CHF the fact remains that he should have been tried there first. He hasn't been, and as a result his career has effectively been ruined.

Sure, Waite to defense may pay off, just as Livo to defence may have paid off. But what if it doesn't? There are huge potential risks, and they are big enough that, given the current position the club finds itself in, it should not even seriously consider taking. Waite has shown that he can and will be a very good player, injuries permitting, in the forward line and maybe up in the midfield later on in his career. Why would we want to change that? Draft a defender, develop some, but we simply cannot afford to keep robbing Peter to pay Paul. We have deficiencies, and we should fill them up not by taking players out of their current positions, but by drafting and development.

Waite is a vital member of our forward line. Do you not remember in 2005 he carried us basically single handedly when Fev was out? Specifically against the Hawks at TD. Waite has proved that he is dangerous up forward, and could well be our number 2 target behind Fev. We should NOT be moving him back. He is too important to our forward line structure.

I agree there is a risk involved, but Waite has shown that he is an extremely versatile player. Much more than Livingston anyway. Also consider the fact that Cornes was having a more or less similar effect in Port's forward line to what Waite has with us, probably even more. I think Kennedy's rise will be more rapid than what people think. The guy is just clearly a class above VFL level already, he is going to be a very good player for us.

One of our forwards have to be moved, we are simply too top heavy. Even if we draft some one like Nathan Brown we are still going to have to wait at least 2-3 years before he is capable of taking on the gorrilas. Waite has all the physical features required to become a terrific backman, its just about how well he can adapt.

Risky? Yes

Worth taking the risk? IMO yes, too great a potential upside to ignore.

 

[zoofest43]

with the likely departure of Thornton I think the Jarrad waite to CHB is by far the best move although i would have loved to see him tryed on a wing a lot more. he has all the qualities a Key defender needs if he can put on a few kilos over summer.

 

[XXX KINGS]

Disagree. Get Harts ready via NAB and practice matches. He needs to be fast tracked. He is big enough to take the number 1 forward. He should get the job, Whitts on number 2 and Setanta number 3. Bower, Scotland and hopefully O'Brien the other 3 down there.

If we play Setanta on the oppositions best forward every week, we will be well and truly ****ed. At least Hartlett may be able to match them with footy smarts and strength. He has been playing the game for a hell of a lot longer than Setanta. Just hope to god that his body holds up-otherwise we may as well just concede every game

We REALLY need Thornton he leaves an enormous hole. Looking at these discussions, he would just about have to be our 2nd most important player.

I think you are really clutching at straws with Hartlett. I really hope he can become the player we want him to be, however so far injuries have stopped him from showing us anything of substance. In the VFL games he has played he really didn't do much. Any good form shown by Hartlett next year should simply be considered a bonus as he hasn't done anything for us to be putting such high expectations on him. We need to go into next season with a proper plan put in place with a player who has proven that he is up to AFL standards. I think Waite is our man for this.

 

[Jeremias]

I agree there is a risk involved, but Waite has shown that he is an extremely versatile player. Much more than Livingston anyway. Also consider the fact that Cornes was having a more or less similar effect in Port's forward line to what Waite has with us, probably even more. I think Kennedy's rise will be more rapid than what people think. The guy is just clearly a class above VFL level already, he is going to be a very good player for us.

One of our forwards have to be moved, we are simply too top heavy. Even if we draft some one like Nathan Brown we are still going to have to wait at least 2-3 years before he is capable of taking on the gorrilas. Waite has all the physical features required to become a terrific backman, its just about how well he can adapt.

Risky? Yes

Worth taking the risk? IMO yes, too great a potential upside to ignore.

Not only is there a huge risk involved, but it will take heaps of time. Do you remember how Pav KILLED him a few years back. We cannot afford to have him learn in the top flight, and he is far too valuable to drop to the Bullants. That was just 1 week. If Waite is moved back, we may see that every single week

We will not be too top heavy up forward. Fev will play FF, Kennedy CHF, Waite in a pocket and Fish on a flank. That is 2 genuine talls, and 2 that can play smaller and are also able to push up the ground. Not too heavy at all.

The risks are far too high to move Waite back, and the time it will take for him to learn is enormous. We cannot afford to make the move. Put Harts or Brown there, at least they have learned back there and immediately know what they are doing.

 

[Jeremias]

I think you are really clutching at straws with Hartlett. I really hope he can become the player we want him to be, however so far injuries have stopped him from showing us anything of substance. In the VFL games he has played he really didn't do much. Any good form shown by Hartlett next year should simply be considered a bonus as he hasn't done anything for us to be putting such high expectations on him. We need to go into next season with a proper plan put in place with a player who has proven that he is up to AFL standards. I think Waite is our man for this.

Hartlett is capable of playing a key defensive role, and that is one of the reasons he was drafted to the club. Of course injuries have held him back, but with another big preseason, and if he stays injury free, he should be able to slot into our defense reasonably early on in the season. As long as injuries stay away, he will make it, and will be our FB.

 

[AlecDuncan]

With the impending departure of Thornton, does anyone else agree that it's time for Waite to make the move into the backline? Thornton leaving creates a huge hole and looking at our list, we dont really seem to have a ready made replacement. Hartlett has question marks on him, O'Hailpin needs more time to learn the game, Whitnall simply doesn't have the pace and Bower is too young.

Jarrad doesn't have a defensive bone in his body. He's a forward/winger. Get used to it.

Not that there's anyone else who can do the job.

 

[blues4flag]

Won't hurt to try, if he shows he's capable of playing there. If the club feels he can make it, than why not give it a shot? Without Thornton, we lack quality mature players, while our youngsters might not make it, so Waite, although risky, seems like a good choice.

 

[Jeremias]

Won't hurt to try, if he shows he's capable of playing there. If the club feels he can make it, than why not give it a shot? Without Thornton, we lack quality mature players, while our youngsters might not make it, so Waite, although risky, seems like a good choice.

He has already shown that he struggles down there, and it will take a very long time to change this fact, time that we simply cannot afford given the current on-field performances of the club. Remember his game vs Freo, when he was played on Pav? That was only one game, if he is played at CHB, he will need to play on that quality forward far more regularly.

 

[XXX KINGS]

Not only is there a huge risk involved, but it will take heaps of time. Do you remember how Pav KILLED him a few years back. We cannot afford to have him learn in the top flight, and he is far too valuable to drop to the Bullants. That was just 1 week. If Waite is moved back, we may see that every single week

That was one game where Pavlich was simply unstopable. He killed every single player on our team including Thornton. Keep in mind that Waite did not start that game in defence but was switched onto him after he was giving Thornton a bath. That was the first and only time he has played there and it was without a pre season of development in defence as well as simply not having enough experience to play on someone like Pavlich full stop. It is incredibly unfair to judge him on one game especially in those circumstances.

We will not be too top heavy up forward. Fev will play FF, Kennedy CHF, Waite in a pocket and Fish on a flank. That is 2 genuine talls, and 2 that can play smaller and are also able to push up the ground. Not too heavy at all.

That is exactly the thing, they are talls playing as smalls. It's okay to have one of them but when you have two you find them clogging up way too much forward line space.

The risks are far too high to move Waite back, and the time it will take for him to learn is enormous. We cannot afford to make the move. Put Harts or Brown there, at least they have learned back there and immediately know what they are doing.

Hartlett was drafted as a forward and has played like 10-15 VFL games in two years. I'd also say that about 3-4 of them were when he played no more than half a game as he wasn't fit. Waite at least is already at a level of physicality suitable to AFL football.

We haven't even drafted Brown yet either, so I can't see how he is being included into the equation at all.

 

[XXX KINGS]

Jarrad doesn't have a defensive bone in his body. He's a forward/winger. Get used to it.

Not that there's anyone else who can do the job.

Walker was tarnished with the same brush when he was drafted. Would you say the same thing about him now?

 

[Jeremias]

That was one game where Pavlich was simply unstopable. He killed every single player on our team including Thornton. Keep in mind that Waite did not start that game in defence but was switched onto him after he was giving Thornton a bath. That was the first and only time he has played there and it was without a pre season of development in defence as well as simply not having enough experience to play on someone like Pavlich full stop. It is incredibly unfair to judge him on one game especially in those circumstances.




That is exactly the thing, they are talls playing as smalls. It's okay to have one of them but when you have two you find them clogging up way too much forward line space.


Hartlett was drafted as a forward and has played like 10-15 VFL games in two years. I'd also say that about 3-4 of them were when he played no more than half a game as he wasn't fit. Waite at least is already at a level of physicality suitable to AFL football.

We haven't even drafted Brown yet either, so I can't see how he is being included into the equation at all.

It may be a tad unfair, but he would have to undergo unbelievably intensive training to get his defensive work up to scratch. I still think it is too risky.

Talls playing as smalls? So what? They can play small, and drift up the ground. Both are valuable to our structure, and will continue to be. Our forward line will be sound with these players in it, and is the least of our worries. Don't muck around with it in any major capacity-it's actually the only structure we have managed to make correct.

Hartlett was drafted as a sort of swingman, similar to Bradshaw, capable of playing both back and forward. He is physically suited to AFL, just as long as injuries stay away. Is bulked up and could slot right in. We just need to give him time and opportunities and he will be able to slot into our FB position, most probably during season 2007.

Brown should be drafted as a developing big man down back. He has a big place in this discussion. he could be the man at FB/CHB in a few years time.