Jimmy Bartel

[krisholio14]

It doesn't fit at all, there are plenty of champion players who don't win many BnFs, so they fit the mould regardless of errant assumptions.



No, because they have won BnFs and as such they completely fit the pattern that champion players will at least win one, all things being equal of course.



Oh no, no, not at all hehe, Jimmy Bartel's situation probably mirrors that of a Brisbane player in the late 90s/early 2000s who played in champion teams for a while.

Tuck's situation was entirely different, as he played his entire 20 year career in a dominant team that played in a Grand Final every 1.8 years in that time. He also played with Leigh Matthews who won the award 8 times. So Bartel hasn't been in that situation at all, with all due respect to Geelong's current dynasty.

Just having a look at the Geelong website to confirm, Jimmy has been top 7 in every season since 2004. In 2004 he only played 2/3 of the season and finished 7th in a team that was top 4. In 2010 he finished 6th in a year where he busted his arm half way through the season and probably shouldn't have been playing, and last year finished 6th while carrying a broken foot all year. In seasons we've played in GF's/won flags he's been 2nd, 2nd, 3rd and 3rd. Two of those years were behind a player who many are talking now about possibly being in the best 10 ever. How is that any different to Michael Tuck? Apart from the fact that Tucky's happened over a longer period, i'm not seeing it.

 

[Chewy]

It always seems to come back to winning the club B&F when Bartel is put down by Hawthorn supporters. Funny about that. I noticed that Michael Tuck never won one at Hawthorn. Joel Smith has, so they can't be all that hard to get. So what you are saying is that Joel Smith is a better player than Michael Tuck. I'd probably disagree with that. I reckon Tuck was a pretty fair footballer and Smith a pretty average one in the grand scheme of things. But you're entitled to your opinion. As a Hawthorn supporter though, I'm surprised you don't rate Tuck.

I never mentioned Bartel's failure to win his club award. A defensive Geelong fan decided to tell me that Club B&Fs mean shit and you jumped on their bandwagon. We were talking about playing a starring role in a premiership and I said winning the B&F and flag in the same year is the highest achievement. Joel Smith never even played in a Grand Final, so why mention him?

But yeah, point taken. Jimmy Bartel's record of Top 6 placings in the Geelong B&F should not be ignored.

 

[Chewy]

Apparently Norm Smiths, Brownlows, AA selections and premierships mean nothing. The only award that means something is a club B&F award. It's the only thing every player ever plays for. Oh, they may say they play for premiership glory, but that's a lie. I'm sure Michael Tuck would gladly hand back his 7 premiership medallions tomorrow if it meant he could just lay his hands on one B&F award.

Michael Tuck is probably the most extreme example of a champion footballer who never won a B&F. He played in star-studded teams alongside some of the greatest footballers in history and was 7 times runner-up in Hawthorn's B&F and twice placed 3rd. That's 9 times in the Top 3 in his 20 seasons. His record looks even more impressive if you subtract his first 4 seasons when he was still improving.

Tuck's final 16 seasons from 1976-1991:
7 premierships. 4 as captain.
7 times runner-up in B&F
9 times in Top 3 in B&F

Jimmy Bartel has a long way to go before you'd compare him to Michael Tuck. Tuck was just hitting his peak when he was 29.

Just out of interest, what is Bartel's record in Geelong's B&F, by the way?

 

[krisholio14]

Michael Tuck is probably the most extreme example of a champion footballer who never won a B&F. He played in star-studded teams alongside some of the greatest footballers in history and was 7 times runner-up in Hawthorn's B&F and twice placed 3rd. That's 9 times in the Top 3 in his 20 seasons. His record looks even more impressive if you subtract his first 4 seasons when he was still improving.

Tuck's final 16 seasons from 1976-1991:
7 premierships. 4 as captain.
7 times runner-up in B&F
9 times in Top 3 in B&F

Jimmy Bartel has a long way to go to even enter the Michael Tuck ballpark. Tuck was just hitting his peak when he was 29.

Just out of interest, what is Bartel's record in Geelong's B&F, by the way?

Go and have a look at my post above yours because I have already brought Tuck into the debate.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Just having a look at the Geelong website to confirm, Jimmy has been top 7 in every season since 2004.

Which you would expect for a consistent type midfielder who doesn't miss many games.

In 2010 he finished 6th

last year finished 6th

So what? 6th is nothing to put on your CV. I get that he may have played with injuries, but all players suffer those to some extent. Chris Judd and Luke Hodge have had career changing injuries and they still managed to win a couple of BnFs at least.

In seasons we've played in GF's/won flags he's been 2nd, 2nd, 3rd and 3rd.

2nd twice? Again, so what?

Two of those years were behind a player who many are talking now about possibly being in the best 10 ever. How is that any different to Michael Tuck?

Because Tuck finished 2nd six times, not just twice, and behind a player who most will tell you is the best that has ever played the game. Bartel on the other hand only really contended with Ablett for the four years he played in the midfield at Geelong. And he only lost to him twice. It's just no excuse.

Bartel I think is a second tier player at Geelong, such as Shaun Hart was at the Lions.

 

[krisholio14]

Which you would expect for a consistent type midfielder who doesn't miss many games.





So what? 6th is nothing to put on your CV. I get that he may have played with injuries, but all players suffer those to some extent. Chris Judd and Luke Hodge have had career changing injuries and they still managed to win a couple of BnFs at least.



2nd twice? Again, so what?



Because Tuck finished 2nd six times, not just twice, and behind a player who most will tell you is the best that has ever played the game. Bartel on the other hand only really contended with Ablett for the four years he played in the midfield at Geelong. And he only lost to him twice. It's just no excuse.

Bartel I think is a second tier player at Geelong, such as Shaun Hart was at the Lions.

Lol thanks for all that. Just wanted to confirm once and for all that you are trolling.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Jimmy Bartel is a champion player who always does the right thing at the right time and he is a connsumate professional. I still regret not puting money on him to win the norm smith medal in 2011.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

So what? 6th is nothing to put on your CV.

It is when you had a five year period where you went second, second, third, third, sixth in a side that averaged six All Australians per year over that time.

I get that he may have played with injuries, but all players suffer those to some extent. Chris Judd and Luke Hodge have had career changing injuries and they still managed to win a couple of BnFs at least.

In mediocre teams (at best).

 

[Gasometer]

This thread is still going?

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

I never mentioned Bartel's failure to win his club award. A defensive Geelong fan decided to tell me that Club B&Fs mean shit and you jumped on their bandwagon. We were talking about playing a starring role in a premiership and I said winning the B&F and flag in the same year is the highest achievement. Joel Smith never even played in a Grand Final, so why mention him?

But yeah, point taken. Jimmy Bartel's record of Top 6 placings in the Geelong B&F should not be ignored.

Fair enough, it's more a hodgepodge point about the B&Fs, one of his constant refrains here and particularly over in the Bay is that Bartel is useless because he never won a B&F, I just used your quote because it was the most recent in the thread at the time. But under hodgepodge's logic Joel Smith is better than Tuck because Smith has a B&F. I believe that both you and I would disagree with that. It would be interesting to know if hodgepodge's beliefs stacks up to his own logic.

 

[krisholio14]

Fair enough, it's more a hodgepodge point about the B&Fs, one of his constant refrains here and particularly over in the Bay is that Bartel is useless because he never won a B&F, I just used your quote because it was the most recent in the thread at the time. But under hodgepodge's logic Joel Smith is better than Tuck because Smith has a B&F. I believe that both you and I would disagree with that. It would be interesting to know if hodgepodge's beliefs stacks up to his own logic.

I'll be eagerly awaiting to see how he twists that to suit his idiotic argument.

 

[cayze]

Bartel I think is a second tier player at Geelong, such as Shaun Hart was at the Lions.

Hilarious.

 

[Sttew]

APB to Geelong posters - ignore Hodgeodge, he is just shit stirring. Move on. We are better than this. He is tarnishing Big Footy

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

Lol thanks for all that. Just wanted to confirm once and for all that you are trolling.

Dude he's not trolling. He genuin believes the crap he posts. Life is so much better with him on ignore. He's actually not playing with the full deck.

 

[JUBJUB]

Bartel I think is a second tier player at Geelong, such as Shaun Hart was at the Lions.

 

[Duskfire]

HodgePodge just gave Geelong a massive compliment. If Bartel is only a second tier player, then that must mean the first tier players are truly amazing. Given his love of Varcoe, I can only assume he believes him to be sixth tier.

 

[dymot]

I love it how HOdgepode says so what if Bartel came second in the BF but loves to tell all how good Hodge is for coming second in the MVP from players and coaches .

 

[Forward Press]

We're going around in circles and I don't think this thread has any more value, despite the earlier warnings to stay on-topic and not play the man.

Infractions will be given.