JLT 1 - Tigers v Crows

[Cleric]

So you're advocating a gold pass for Menzel?....sorry I disagree, he has to earn his spot with on field performance be it AFL or SANFL. IMO that's Menzel's biggest problem, he got away with being "gifted" games at Carlton purely on talent, not based on performance and work ethic......

Not at all. You play him and give him 4 or 5 games to settle his place. Then he lives or dies by is form.
If we trade him in for the loss of a good player and a second round pick, only to not give him a game and then end up delisting him that is so poor of our club heads should roll.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I don't want to appear obsessed, but to compare him to Mackay who is always around the action for his 85% TOG and you have to wonder. Mackay picks up 13 touches with 1 tackle against Menzel's 9 touches and 3 tackles from 16% less TOG. Menz has to work himself into the game from a predominately forward role whilst Mackay gets the time and role to be neck deep in stats and barely touches it. I'm happy for Menz to earn his spot, but CC came in not exactly racking them up. Looks a reasonabke risk at this stage to my eye.

I don't think we should be measuring him against Mackay if we want him to be a significant player in a good side

Yes you do need to lose your Dmac obsession, this will finally be the year that he becomes irrelevant and an SANFL player


The difference Menzel v CC is CC influences contests in ways that can't be measured by pure stats . As we know his pressure is up on there with the best including Cyril etc

9 touches - and really wasn't at enough contests . If your doing that you'd want to be kicking all of your shots at goal and making all your possessions count

Kind of like Grigg being known for his kicking but then missing goals and targets when it mattered

 

[Bicks]

Not at all. You play him and give him 4 or 5 games to settle his place. Then he lives or dies by is form.
If we trade him in for the loss of a good player and a second round pick, only to not give him a game and then end up delisting him that is so poor of our club heads should roll.

Well based on last nights game we'd be playing one short for a lot of the game, just doesn't seem to be able to get to the right positions to get involved in the play is my take of his on field performance. We'll have to agree to disagree I'm afraid.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

What Bone failed to realise was that Hampton/Milera performing across half forward has now released CC to the midfield and amazingly I don't think our forward line is any worse off without CC there. Plus Milera did pretty well through the midfield. Unfortunately I suspect Bone was talking about "inside" not "outside" which is probably true that no one staked a claim there.

Yep he mentioned that re Milera

And yes you are correct re not losing anything by pushing CC higher with Hampton coming in who looked very dangerous offensively

We definitely need Knight to come in and have some midfield influence next game. Galluci will be interesting but we can't expect too much yet

 

[Cleric]

Well based on last nights game we'd be playing one short for a lot of the game, just doesn't seem to be able to get to the right positions to get involved in the play is my take of his on field performance. We'll have to agree to disagree I'm afraid.

Does he have talent?
Did he show in his first year in the AFL that he can play at the level?

Its not like he is an unknown player who hasnt shown his ability.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Well based on last nights game we'd be playing one short for a lot of the game, just doesn't seem to be able to get to the right positions to get involved in the play is my take of his on field performance. We'll have to agree to disagree I'm afraid.

He was barely in the TV screen !
I thought he must have had 40-50% TOG

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Not at all. You play him and give him 4 or 5 games to settle his place. Then he lives or dies by is form.
If we trade him in for the loss of a good player and a second round pick, only to not give him a game and then end up delisting him that is so poor of our club heads should roll.

Scoff - are you suggesting we drop someone like Mackay just so we can see Menzel. Surely not! *




* yes, this is sarcasm

 

[Bicks]

Does he have talent?
Did he show in his first year in the AFL that he can play at the level?

Its not like he is an unknown player who hasnt shown his ability.

Colin Sylvia had ability too...

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Does he have talent?
Did he show in his first year in the AFL that he can play at the level?

Its not like he is an unknown player who hasnt shown his ability.

Everyone on an AFL list has talent though , in his first year he showed he can be dangerous I50 as a deeper forward.

My question is do we need that type of player and have AFL game styles changed too much since then with forwards pushing up to half back and running back requiring different things to what he offers

 

[Squiba]

Watched through the 3rd quarter on phone, few observations.

-Hampton had pace and was very much value for touches, the way he spun out of a tackle and got the 1-2 was brilliant. Helps Charlie out as another line breaker. Will be able too be inside if we have at least 2 crouches/sloane at the coal face while he is there.

Tex and Rat- WTF are you doing? Rat is very outside, with Curtly, Charlie, Seeds, Milera, Dmac and Knight all contending, he needs too lift his intensity at man and ball. Tex dgaf.

Milera- Good ball use, competed in the air. Smooth mover.

CEY-Shocking positioning around the contest, more worried about blocking his man out than anything. TBH we didn't have any mids actually hitting the ball while moving, Richmond were moving through space and Maric was palming it too them. Often they ran through the hole Yolmen left. His intent wasn't there tackling wise either.

Sauce Snr- Jump FFS! O'Brien provided far more in the ruck.

Dear- More agile than I remember, didn't see any of his ruckwork but judging by the comments here, he could become a mobile ruck/fwd for us. IMO it's worth training him in that roll while our forward line remains stacked.

Menzel- Good too see him working right up into the D50, needs too get more of the pill though. Hope he gets more jlt games too prove himself.

Otten-Good, very quick of mind. Great depth

That's about all the super notable stuff.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Yep he mentioned that re Milera

And yes you are correct re not losing anything by pushing CC higher with Hampton coming in who looked very dangerous offensively

We definitely need Knight to come in and have some midfield influence next game. Galluci will be interesting but we can't expect too much yet

I love Knight and know Kane McGoodwin is all over him, but we need to remember that Knight has only played 12 games of Afl footy.

 

[Bicks]

Watched through the 3rd quarter on phone, few observations.

-Hampton had pace and was very much value for touches, the way he spun out of a tackle and got the 1-2 was brilliant. Helps Charlie out as another line breaker. Will be able too be inside if we have at least 2 crouches/sloane at the coal face while he is there.

Tex and Rat- WTF are you doing? Rat is very outside, with Curtly, Charlie, Seeds, Milera, Dmac and Knight all contending, he needs too lift his intensity at man and ball. Tex dgaf.

Milera- Good ball use, competed in the air. Smooth mover.

CEY-Shocking positioning around the contest, more worried about blocking his man out than anything. TBH we didn't have any mids actually hitting the ball while moving, Richmond were moving through space and Maric was palming it too them. Often they ran through the hole Yolmen left. His intent wasn't there tackling wise either.

Sauce Snr- Jump FFS! O'Brien provided far more in the ruck.

Dear- More agile than I remember, didn't see any of his ruckwork but judging by the comments here, he could become a mobile ruck/fwd for us. IMO it's worth training him in that roll while our forward line remains stacked.

Menzel- Good too see him working right up into the D50, needs too get more of the pill though. Hope he gets more jlt games too prove himself.

Otten-Good, very quick of mind. Great depth

That's about all the super notable stuff.

Second only to Eddie on our list in natural football I.Q., smart, smart footballer.....what could have been if the injury gods had smiled on him career wise instead of shitting on him from a great height.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I love Knight and know Kane McGoodwin is all over him, but we need to remember that Knight has only played 12 games of Afl footy.

I think this is essentially our problem
We need guys like Knight Hampton Wigg etc to step up big time in midfield and it's not going to be that easy

Unfort we have CEY on our list and not JL who at least would have provided some dependability in short term

 

[haydo]

Going back through the game also, how bloody good were Otten's hands! Bloke was marking basically everything that was coming his way. Doesn't matter if the pack is 10 men deep he was still clean and flew for his marks. May have forgotten about his ability to play the game. Hope he has a decent run at it this season

 

[whitey_1975]

I think this is essentially our problem
We need guys like Knight Hampton Wigg etc to step up big time in midfield and it's not going to be that easy

Unfort we have CEY on our list and not JL who at least would have provided some dependability in short term

Look not taking you to task personally cause you and a million other blind people obviously didn't notice that CEY got a corky to the knee in the first 10 minutes of the game, spent significant time getting treatment, couldn't run, played not one bit of the last quarter, yet everyone here is screaming him down. WTF is the bloke supposed to do? He tried to play on but was ineffective as he couldn't do much more than block his opponent at the contest to allow space for our other mids.
Yeah yeah I know I'm a supporter of his, but lets be real here. Crucify him when he actually is'nt playing injured.

 

[1970crow]

I don't think we should be measuring him against Mackay if we want him to be a significant player in a good side

Yes you do need to lose your Dmac obsession, this will finally be the year that he becomes irrelevant and an SANFL player


The difference Menzel v CC is CC influences contests in ways that can't be measured by pure stats . As we know his pressure is up on there with the best including Cyril etc

9 touches - and really wasn't at enough contests . If your doing that you'd want to be kicking all of your shots at goal and making all your possessions count

Kind of like Grigg being known for his kicking but then missing goals and targets when it mattered

The thing is that there's almost a acceptance that seeing Mackay running around the stoppages not getting it is enough for him to exist on the edge of selection. It's almost as if we've been conditioned to accept that from him, certainly many accept it and some even applauded that effort. Whereas a genuine talent who does the equivalent with much less opportunity needs to work harder. I think we can be far too hard on guys who are developing towards high ceilings. As long as he's ticking off his training and recovery requirements, I'd cop 12 instances of getting to the ball or the man with it from 69% TOG off a flank.

 

[Paladin]

CEY has performed at the level before lets give him at least one more pre season game before scrapping him.

 

[1970crow]

Well based on last nights game we'd be playing one short for a lot of the game, just doesn't seem to be able to get to the right positions to get involved in the play is my take of his on field performance. We'll have to agree to disagree I'm afraid.

I'd rather be one short for a few games while potentially unlocking a star, as we'd carried CC and McGovern at times, rather than one short to carry a loyal servant with no improvement in them. Hopefully we at least cease favouring the latter.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

The thing is that there's almost a acceptance that seeing Mackay running around the stoppages not getting it is enough for him to exist on the edge of selection. It's almost as if we've been conditioned to accept that from him, certainly many accept it and some even applauded that effort. Whereas a genuine talent who does the equivalent with much less opportunity needs to work harder. I think we can be far too hard on guys who are developing towards high ceilings. As long as he's ticking off his training and recovery requirements, I'd cop 12 instances of getting to the ball or the man with it from 69% TOG off a flank.

This isn't Mackay v Menzel though
I'd select neither at this stage although my thoughts with Menzel could change before round 1

Dmac can't do anything between now and round 1 to change my mind

We have enough line breakers which are his supposed strength which is a bit of a furphy anyway . He's not overly quick these days . It was his defensive efforts that infuriated me this time on Friday

 

[Jeffcrowe]

CEY has performed at the level before lets give him at least one more pre season game before scrapping him.

we got no choice , we have to

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Look not taking you to task personally cause you and a million other blind people obviously didn't notice that CEY got a corky to the knee in the first 10 minutes of the game, spent significant time getting treatment, couldn't run, played not one bit of the last quarter, yet everyone here is screaming him down. WTF is the bloke supposed to do? He tried to play on but was ineffective as he couldn't do much more than block his opponent at the contest to allow space for our other mids.
Yeah yeah I know I'm a supporter of his, but lets be real here. Crucify him when he actually is'nt playing injured.

Yeah yeah fair enough we need to give him more chances - we need a bigger contested ball player in there

An option would be to tell him he's playing round 1 regardless and just to go out there in JLT and tune up , have some fun and get some confidence

Playing for your career every game you play can get on your nerves after a while

 

[Paladin]

we got no choice , we have to

Gibbs, Barlow, Lyons would be handy right about now. As Pohlke and Galluchi develop we should be ok.

Brad needs to get fit immediately.

 

[Cockwomble]

Just getting back to Dear n Sauce 4cm isn't much if you can jump, Naitanui is 1cm shorter than Sauce but can jump at least 20cm over him. My point is its worth persisting with Harry in the ruck. Watch the game again and take notice of Harrys ruck contests.

 

[Vader]

Look not taking you to task personally cause you and a million other blind people obviously didn't notice that CEY got a corky to the knee in the first 10 minutes of the game, spent significant time getting treatment, couldn't run, played not one bit of the last quarter, yet everyone here is screaming him down. WTF is the bloke supposed to do? He tried to play on but was ineffective as he couldn't do much more than block his opponent at the contest to allow space for our other mids.
Yeah yeah I know I'm a supporter of his, but lets be real here. Crucify him when he actually is'nt playing injured.

He was rubbish, then he got injured.. and thus didn't have the opportunity to redeem himself the way that Wigg did in the second half.

Even allowing for the fact that he got injured, he was still awful before the injury happened. Right from the very first centre bounce..

 

[Paladin]

He was rubbish, then he got injured.. and thus didn't have the opportunity to redeem himself the way that Wigg did in the second half.

Even allowing for the fact that he got injured, he was still awful before the injury happened. Right from the very first centre bounce..

He was injured in the first 5 minutes. Perhaps you could watch the games.