John Lennon

[Darky]

I have never ever understood why Clapton is so highly rated. His only two in-tune solos are White Room and Crossroads. On Layla, Duane Allman plays all over the top of him, and Clapton has to wait five minutes before he can start mauling something which should have been played on a TUNED guitar.
While My Guitar Gently Weeps is a great song - the guitar playing is absolutely awful, sounds like a tape chewing in a car stereo. But then for that song, its part of its charm and I must say its strangely addictive. Still can't play...
Guitar at its best is stuff like Ritchie Blackmore's "Light In The Black" or "Pictures of Home", Marty Friedman and Jason Becker of Cacophony doing "Speed Metal Symphony", or the entire first Van Halen album. I would love to see old Craphand try to play any of those (no they are not all-out shredding either)!

------------------
Seeking thruths in spirit skies
Which one of you will guide me tonight?
The milky way tastes sour
Has heaven lost its power?
Fly on... Silverwing

 

[Bernie]

Grendel,

The Goons were the basis of UK post-war 'alternative' comedy and the Beatles were a major extension of that. This links the Beatles back to the music hall world of comedy / music mix. This quirky element is very strong in the Beatles music, esp. after they felt 'less constrained' by the restrictions of accepted pop music ( the sub text here is .. took a lot of drugs ).

Spike Milligan wrote most of the Goons material ( and wasn't on drugs amazingly ) and guess who was their producer ? None other than George Martin. McCartney said that the reason they initially accepted Martin's input was that he had this background so he must be OK ( as opposed to all the other stuffy old-school types ). And of course Peter Sellers was another major comedy influence - all from the same 'stable'.

 

[Bernie]

On guitar legends.... no one has mentioned JEFF BECK. I've seen this guy a few times over the years and, outside of SRV, his phrasing and use of distortion is amazing. Hear his cover of Manic Depression for a 3min sonic burst.

Also ALBERT LEE, a total legend .. and the guy from Living Colour.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Great stuff Bernie

I'm not much of a fan of the conventional guitar heavy rock scene but Living Colour are a truly great band in that genre.

Vivid is a big favourite of mine and one of only a tiny handfull of Heavy Rock Albums I have in my collection.

Also was going to mention Jeff Beck but you beat me to it.

Just on the nexus between British 'alternative' (damn there's that 'alternative' word again) comedy and the Beatles, George Harrison once remarked to Eric Idle from Monty Pythons Flying Circus in the 1970's that the 'spirit' (whatever that is) of the Beatles passed to Monty Python when the Beatles broke up.

I think he was being a little wanky but the general thrust of what he said is probably correct. That was part of the Beatles enduring appeal, not only their music but the huge amounts of great humour, charm and razor sharp wit that surrounded the band.

These qualities seemed to be passed on to the guys at Monty Python, carrying on a great tradition in British Comedy that goes back well over a hundred years to the days of Music Hall, Gilbert and Sullivan and Punch Magazine.

cheers

 

[Olmy]

Originally posted by toucan:
Olmy : I am a pumkins fan. Have all their albums. News Flash - Billy Corgan is not a great guitarist. He is okay. I think because you like his music so much, that he is great. Simply not so.

So you have all the albums. Have you listened to them yet?

Billy Corgan is just as good as Gilmour and any of the others mentioned in this thread.

 

[Olmy]

Originally posted by jod23:
Olmy - i think you are letting your favourites become bests as so many people do. I like the Smashing Pumpkins and have two of there albums but Corgan is just another guitarist, nothing more. Hate to dissapoint but he couldnt hole a candle or even a matchstick to musicians like Harrison, Clapton, Hendrix and Knoffler.

I disagree.

Anyway, those 4 guitarists, obviously your favourites, that you keep on mentioning, are generally held as 'greats' only in a very subjective light. It's the same for ANY guitarist in ANY band.

I defy ANYONE here to state reasonably why Billy Corgan is not a great guitarist. So far people have only given OPINION, rather than reason on this. Oh, don't tell me, you're not all writers for those crappy guitar magazines, now are you?

 

[johnson]

Jod23,

You are the idiot. Are you telling me that a murder is more tragic than a suicide or an overdose? Ever had anyone close to you die??? You tell me that any form of death is not tragic in some form. That is what I was saying. Lennon's murder is just as tragic to me as Cobain's suicide because somebody DIED!!!! Yes, a nutter killed Lennon but that doesn't make his death anymore tragic than anybody else's. Think about it before you start calling me an idiot. You try telling the millions of Elvis supporters out there that his death was "less tragic" than John Lennon's. Good luck to you.

Originally posted by jod23:
Grendel - they were both geniuses (sp?) notice that after they broke up although they both produced great music neiter really blossomed, but together they were beyond brilliant.

BSA - He was an idealist and that was a good quality, he did what he could for world peace but i hate to dissapoint you, one man cant do it alone. Concerning Cynthia and Julian well nobody is perfect and you try playing happy families when every eye every second of every day is fixed on you. Your obviously a little misguided with Johns music. Your comments about his music been terrible is just silly and i honestly have no answer to that because its obvious to a deaf man that his music was brilliant. George and Paul were better musicians i dont argue that but neither were better composers or songwriters. (maybe Paul) And you comment "yeah thanks Yoko" i hope was a joke cos it wasnt Yokos fault and if you didnt know that then you dont know much about the Beatles at all.

Johnson - half the ppl you mentioned killed themselves with drugs you idiot. Lennon was gunned down by a crazed loony. Thats why its more of a tradegy?!?! Jesus where have you been.

Bee - LOL. For starters the ppl you mentioned were all lead guitarists, John played Rhythm and Paul played Bass. And if you want to talk lead guitarists the best four in the world ever in no particular order are Harrison Hendrix Clapton and Knoffler, none of the second rate lead guitarists you mentioned would even rate against the ones listed above. And he asked Clapton to play guitar for "While my Guitar Gently Weeps" cos they were very good friends at the time. George Harrison wrote the music and the words so you think he couldnt have played if he didnt want to?

Lioness - good call on the Beach Boys the only band to rival the Beatles in the 60's, love there music.


Ok well thats it i hope i educated you all

------------------
Respect. Keep the peace.

 

[Bernie]

BSA,

Interesting to note that Jeff Beck toured with SRV and claimed that he lost his hearing on that tour ( some tour ! ). That's why he doesn't get out much.

Albert Lee was Clapton's 'other' guitarist on a number of his 80's tours ( before he ( EC ) went 'accessable' ).

A guitarist from left field - John McLaughlin. Extraordinary sounds and DEFINATELY the loudest I've endured - even louder that Thorpie in the 70's 'Gibson/Marshall stack' years. Saw him play with Carlos Santana in the battle of the sustained note - lots of Krishna love in the room.

A good book to read about all this is Bill Graham's biography - the guy who set up the Filmore(s) in the States ( and built the stage at Woodstock - wow ).

 

[Grendel]

bernie,i still dont get the connection to the Beatles being influenced by the Goons,
unless of course they were all closet Ray Ellington and Max Geldray fans which could explain alot

Grendel the Bolivian Prince (AKA Bluebottle, you rotten swine, you deaded me again)

"Come Moriarty, we must away"

now if that doesnt confuse a few i dont know what will

 

[Carey_is_King]

Originally posted by TigerTank:
I'll take the middle ground on this one.

John Lennon - very talented musician but less than spectacular human being.

Strip away the admittedly very good music and you are left with a garden-variety hippy with extremely poor taste in women.

Beautifully put. I couldn't agree more.
Time makes heroes of us all it seems.


------------------
Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.

 

[lioness]

Originally posted by Darky:

While My Guitar Gently Weeps is a great song - the guitar playing is absolutely awful, sounds like a tape chewing in a car stereo.

I agree. I much prefer the version of the song on the Beatles' "Anthology 3" it's a vast improvement!!!!!!!! IMHO anyway.

 

[jod23]

Bee - if you cant realise that Blackmore, SRV and Page arent in the same class as such guitarists as Knoffler, Santana, Satriani and others ive mentioned then your the one who knows very little.

Darky - you shouldnt be allowed to post messages on this board if your going to speak such drivel. Clapton is one of the best if not THE best guitarist in the world, you really should listen to some of his work.
While my Guitar Gently Weeps is one of Harrisons best songs and the guitaring and lyrics are brilliant. A great song.

BSA - agree with Beck, hes a great guitarist and with your comments on the Beatles. They were truly very funny.

Olmy - go out and buy best of albums of Clapton Hendrix the Beatles and Dire Straits.
Listen to them then listen to the Pumpkins ..
.. its OBVIOUS!!!!

Johnson - LOL. Cobain killed himself. Elvis killed himself. Hendrix killed himself. They all had ODs and Cobain blew his own head off. Whos fault is that?? Its there OWN fault. Yes its tragic but when you do it to yourself then all you can say is that "Oh well they brought it on themselves" Lennon was gunned down ... not HIS fault. Jimi Kurt and Elvis put there own lives in there own hands but Mark Chapman took someone elses life. It wasnt his to take. Thats what makes it more tragic.

Jesus man use your brain.

Cheers

 

[basic]

hey bernie Top stuff! i hadn't heard anyone mention Jeff either but i have heard him play and he is good. nice call

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by jod23:
Darky - you shouldnt be allowed to post messages on this board if your going to speak such drivel. Clapton is one of the best if not THE best guitarist in the world, you really should listen to some of his work.
While my Guitar Gently Weeps is one of Harrisons best songs and the guitaring and lyrics are brilliant. A great song.

I apologise wholeheartedly for having the audacity to disagree with you on this one.
You'll be glad to know I've booked myself in at the local council guillotine for a beheading first thing Monday morning.

Normally I would tell you to get back in your box, but you no doubt lost that in the same place you left your musical ear - i.e. the sixties!

------------------
Seeking thruths in spirit skies
Which one of you will guide me tonight?
The milky way tastes sour
Has heaven lost its power?
Fly on... Silverwing

 

[Olmy]

Originally posted by jod23:
Olmy - go out and buy best of albums of Clapton Hendrix the Beatles and Dire Straits.
Listen to them then listen to the Pumpkins ..
.. its OBVIOUS!!!!

Umm, no. Not 'obvious'. Try another word starting with 'o' - OPINION. That's all it comes down to - and after playing guitar for 8 years (and having listened widely), I'm kinda happy with my opinion(s), just as I am happy to hear the opinions of others (as well as the reasoning behing them).

Tell me, is there anything in the Australian Constitution which stipulates that one person's qualified and reasoned opinion holds a greater degree of correctness than another person's qualified and reasoned opinion?

I respect what has been said by people on here regarding their FAVOURITE guitarists (don't fool yourselves, we are ALL only talking favourites here - using that basis for our judgements). While I don't necessarily have the same opinion (or, favourites) as others, you would at least think an OBJECTIVE response to a topic like this would see others also repsecting the opinions of others.

Tell me, is there any Gospel, or written law that says "Billy Corgan is not as greater guitarist as . . . ."? I doubt it! It's all opinion - not stipulated facts that everyone has to accept. Well, not unless art is a Nazist movement.

Btw, it's interesting to note that no-one has given a mention to Lee Ranaldo or Nick McCabe.

 

[Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk]

ok well Sonic Youth r kool! so kool in fact i have 2 shirts of them!

sPiDeR eVeRiTt and RiCkY oLaReNsHaW
~kewlest players round!!!

 

[^LadyBlue^]

First I would like to reply to the person that dissed hippies - at least they knew how to take a stand and stand together - you young punks have no clue what it was like to see your brothers and sisters being shipped off to killing fields fresh out of high school - we were a young generation full of ideals - just like you
John Lennon is an icon of those times, he stood for peace and freedom to play whatEVER kind of music you personally chose to play. Don't let his efforts go un-recognized here. Another point I would like to make clear from the beginning is that we all have opinions and we are all entitled to them. You kids have a right to your guitar idols but do yourselves a huge favor – do your homework. Go back and see who has inspired the guitar players you have chosen to worship. Then go back and see who inspired THEM…then go back...well, do you get it? It all goes back further than your little narrow minds can comprehend – you cannot phanthom what it was like to forge a gap, to take on society and it’s beliefs in order to have the freedom to play the music you so love…unless you broaden your horizons, I don’t think you will ever begin to know or understand the sheer love of music that pushed those struggling musicians, nor the struggling musicians of today. I don’t think you can measure one mans love of music against another’s – music is in the heart and soul no matter what style, what instrument, what BAND, no matter how famous you are, no matter if you sing in the shower, if your heart and soul is in it how can anyone, ever, anywhere fault you for it? The very musicians you so idolize would be ashamed to know you narrow minded bigots call yourselves their fans.

 

[jod23]

Darky - its a good thing my musical ear was left in the 60's cos if you hadnt noticed all the best music came out of the 60's.

Now on with the Beheading!!!!!

Olmy - i know you have your opinion but the truth of it was that you think Billy Corgan is a great guitarist, and in actual fact he isnt that great. An accomplised guitarist yes but a great one no. But your entitled to your opinion whether it be right or WRONG.

Ladyblue - your so wise

cheers

 

[The Dutchman!]

Interesting thread - think I'll jump in late...

I'll never forget coming home from school in early December 1980 (aged 11) and watching Ch7's 5.55pm news headlines plug with Mal Walden (then at 7) announcing that Lennon had been shot several times and wasn't expected to live - in the 6pm bulletin they changed the update to report his death.

Six months early my parents had bought me a beatles greatest hits vinyl LP which I basically played on high rotation - loved it - it wasn't even their good stuff (ie: what I consider their good stuff - White Album, Abbey Rd, St Pepper, Revolver & let it Be to a degress) but their early pop hits. But I absolutely loved it - thought it was perfect - and there was no question who was the idol in my young eyes - Lennon had the brash swagger, the best rock voice of all time IMHO (spot on BSA or Grendel about this - vocal on Twist & Shout is still fabulous) and basically his songs always seemed more interesting, even if they were lessor efforts musically... for instance I prefer an album filler like Being for the Benefit of Mr Kite to Yesterday because its just a little different..

Anyway, it does appear that Lennon wasn't the most fabulous of human beings, but being a white male baby boomer rock star does not quash one's selfish instints.. There was an article to this effect in the paper here recently by Julie Burchill (horrible poser) to this effect.

But who cares? A day in the life, Revolution, Strawberry Fields Forever, Across the Universe, Jealous Guy, Merry Christmas (War is over), Imagine etc etc are all such fantastic songs that he could have had a carpet fetish I wouldn't have cared..

I don't hate McCartney, I just find him corny and safe - same reason I don't rate Dire Straits (except Theme from Local Hero & Romeo & Juliet) - not because they aren't great songwriters or musicians - they are- but because they're mostly shitboring.

As the others mentioned, Hendrix was not overrated but lived in an era with patchy album production - Electric Ladyland had about 5 knockout tracks and about 8 unlistenables (much like Melon Collie & the Infinite Sadness Corgan fans)...

I leave you with this Hornby-esque list - top 5 pop guitar contributions (riffs, leads whatever) of all time:

1. Middle 8 in Bachelor Kisses - Shinboner will know this...
2. Babe I'm gonna leave you - Zep
3. How soon is know? tying with Boy with the thorn in his side - Marr
4. Just like a woman (intro particularly) - Capt Bob
5. Sympathy for the devil - Keef's lightening bits are amazing.

Be interested in your thoughts...

 

[basic]

Lady what you say is very very true.
Yall listen to her like jod says she is so wise

 

[^LadyBlue^]

Hats off to Dutchman for his fine musical tastes
Although Lennon and the Beatles were far more popular; the Stones were also instrumental in breaking down society's barriers and telling the awful truth thru their music. The Stones are my all time fav band and Keef is my all time fav guitarist, I love his solo stuff!

 

[Olmy]

Originally posted by jod23:

Olmy - i know you have your opinion but the truth of it was that you think Billy Corgan is a great guitarist, and in actual fact he isnt that great. An accomplised guitarist yes but a great one no. But your entitled to your opinion whether it be right or WRONG.

And who says I'm wrong? I certainly don't bow to anyone on her regarding this topic. I won't go as low as to say that you are wrong, however, I will say that you seem to have a problem with accepting the fact that other people can have different opinions without one person being "right" or "wrong".

You're just one of these people who thinks that great bands can only be found in retrospect (ie: from the 60's or 70's).

Dutchy - I don't regard MC&IS as being a "Pumpkins classic". You need to delve into Gish or Siamese Dream for their best guitar efforts. Adore is also a great album in regards to song content (although the guitar heroics are of a different variety).

 

[The Dutchman!]

Yeah I agree Olmy, I was just using MC by way of comparison - hey I'm not arguing with you - I like the pumpkins though not a big fan of Adore - though a I like what he was trying to do...

 

[jod23]

Dutch - totally agree he has the best rock n roll voice of all time. Hes just awesome. Although what do you mean when you say McCartney is corny and soft, can you go into more detail on that please. Just wandering why you would think that???

Olmy - have your opinion. Im sick of rehashing the same argument, i like Corgan and the pumpkins but there just not great. There just another band. Sorry.

cheers


Dutch gimme feedback

 

[Bee]

Jod, it is futile arguing on taste in music. So I will agree to disagree with you. But I still do not rate Knopfler in the same league as SRV etc. Also whilst I agree that the shooting of John Lennon was tragic, it was not anymore tragic than the helicopter crash that took away Stevie Ray Vaughan.
I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it.