John Lennon

[Darky]

And I might also add that the century's most important event was World War 2, and NOT the release of the bloody Sergeant Peppers album!

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Other bands play, Manowar KILL !!!!!!!!!

 

[^LadyBLue^]

And I might also add that the century's most important event was World War 2, and NOT the release of the bloody Sergeant Peppers album!

I think another most important event was the end of the Cold War and the tearing down of the Berlin Wall....

just my opinion and ya know what they say bout those!! lmao

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

No Darky

The 20th Century's single most important event was actually the First World War, not the Second.

Everything we are and have become flows directly (in an historical sense) from this most crucial of all human conflicts.

cheers

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel:
No Darky

The 20th Century's single most important event was actually the First World War, not the Second.

Everything we are and have become flows directly (in an historical sense) from this most crucial of all human conflicts.

cheers

Fair comment BSA, however I based my judgement not on where it all started, but on how conclusively it finished. In my opinion, WW2 was a continuation (more or less) of WW1, brought on by the uneasy "peace" between nations since WW1, and the frustrating economic situation worldwide brought on by the Depression. Hitler believed WW1 left much unfinished business, hence the push to reclaim formerly German parts of eastern Europe which started the war.
So yes I agree with you that WW1 was the catalyst for it, but I'm unsure if it overshadows the conclusiveness of the result of WW2.
Either way John Lennon wasn't involved.


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Other bands play, Manowar KILL !!!!!!!!!

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Amen to that one Darky !

I take your points - no arguements from me on those.

I nominate WWI as the single most imporatnt event of the 20C because it swept away so much of the old and accepted order of things.

Mighty Empires that had lasted centuries

Monarchies that had lasted even longer

Political systems and institutions that had governed they way we live and think.

Ways of thinking about things like democracy, military science, literacy and media, economic systems, education, art and culture and the balance of world power

All swept away in a four year long maelstrom of bloodshed that brought all the old orders crashing down.

That is why I like to think of WW1 in this way, a crashing, cathartic upheaval that announced the end of, well, everything really and start of a whole new way of living.

fascinating topic - I'd like to talk more but maybe in a new thread ?

Sorry I can't use chat - I'm at work and don't have the time to use the room.

cheers

 

[jod23]

Darky - Roosevelt and the US should be ashamed at their actions in WW2. Britain actually had to hide there knowledge about Pearl Harbour so the US would come into the war. We would have lost WW2 if the US hadnt have become involved and i agree with that but for the US to sit there for years and let the war go on and not help was terrible. Roosevelt should be ashamed of himself.

 

[Carey_is_King]

Darky, BSA & others,

We are wasting our time here.
Our views require no further explanation.

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Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Thats way too harsh on Roosevelt jod23

The fact is that he was itching to come into the war on the side of Great Britain right from the start of hostilities in 1939 but he couldn't because public (ie voter) opinion in the USA was strongly in favour of neutrality and isolationism.

Roosevelt couldn't move too far in front of public opinion because he faced a presidential election in 1940 and had to choose his words very carefully so as not to upset voter sentiment. Even after he won the 1940 election Roosevelt still could not come into the war because the American public was still strongly in favour of neutrality.

However he did his utmost to assist Great Britain in her darkest hour :

- The USA donated 50 destroyers to the Royal Navy
- The US Navy provided convoy escort in the North Atlantic (and were gradually drawn into open warfare with German submarines throughout 1940-41)
- The USA and Great Britain concluded the 'Lend-Lease' agreement whereby Equipment, Food and Medical supplies, and Fuel were supplied to Great Britain in huge quantities for next to no money.

It took two of the dumbest mistakes you could ever imagine by the Axis powers to finally clear up all the doubts about the USA place in the war and the world. One was the Japanese airstrike on Pearl Harbour on 7 December 1941 and then the day after, incredibly, unbelievably Hitler declared war on the United States.

American treachery ? - I don't think so.

 

[Darky]

Jod, whether or not Roosevelt had anything to be ashamed of is beside the point. I named my 5 people based on how I perceived their influence, not because they were good blokes.

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Other bands play, Manowar KILL !!!!!!!!!

 

[jod23]

BSA - ok fair enough maybe i was a little harsh on him but he was still the President of the United States. Some say the leader of the free world and the free world was under attack by Hitler and Germany. And he stood idle and did nothing. So what if the public didnt want to enter the war. People were dying and America is one of the biggest world powers and yet they sat there and let countless lives die. If they had come into the war alot earlier than they did it could of ended alot sooner than it did. Thats all im saying.

 

[AlfAndrews]

Originally posted by Darky:
So yes I agree with you that WW1 was the catalyst for it, but I'm unsure if it overshadows the conclusiveness of the result of WW2.
Either way John Lennon wasn't involved.

Yes he was. He was in a movie called "How I Won the War" if I remember correctly.



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**floreat pica**

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Jod23

If Roosevelt had taken the United States into the war in 1939 he would almost certainly have lost 1940 presidential election.

His Republican opponents were committed isolationists who would have taken the USA straight back out of the war again. Could you imagine the consequences this would have caused ?

It is almost impossible for us these days to fully appreciate what a divided and weak country the United States really was during the 1920's and 1930's.

- Most of the population believed the USA had made a huge mistake in joining WWI ("they only thing we got out of it was the flu !" was a popular catch-cry)and wanted their country to return to isolationism which had been the dominant foreign policy since 1776.

- The USA was beset with their own internal political problems, Prohibition had caused a massive increase in crime and gang-realted violence, Industrialisation was causing the society as a whole to go through massive changes to its way of life. Economic Depression and Recovery consumed all resources.

- The USA was totally unprepared for war, the army was 250,000 strong (thats less than armies in such countries as Romania and Poland)and was poorly equipped, trained and led. The USA wouldn't have made much difference even if they had come in in 1939.

- Don't assume the American people were naturally going to join in on the Allied side anyway. Facsism and Nazism were flourishing in the States during those years. The Nazis had many high profile sympathisers in the USA (like Charles Lindburg for example) and many political groups in the USA actually admired Hitler for the forcefull and successful way he dealt with bolshevism, liberalism, depression and the Treaty of Versailles.

I guess Roosevelt and the Americans in general are damned if they did and damned if they didn't in this scenario. I appreciate your point jod23 but belive me, there was little else they could do.

cheers

 

[jod23]

BSA - totally agree it was very much a damned if you do damned if you dont situation. But i hardly doubt the USA would come into the war on the Germans side. That was very very unlikely. Hitler was a dictator not a political leader, he wanted the world America included. So i think the USA was always going to be drawn into the war it just should have been a lot earlier that it was. Roosevelt following his relection in 40 should have thrown everything into the war. Instead they just seemed to sit idle until Pearl Harbour and the declaration of war on the US.

Cheers

 

[jod23]

My biggest topic in Bigfooty history. Just thought i would add one more to my proudest moment heh.

 

[eagleskickass]

I see this has gone right of the topic

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Hey so what - this has been one really, REALLY enjoyable thread.

thanks to jod23 for getting the ball rolling and sticking around to talk about everything, especially when it got a bit off topic.

Some great discussions in here about John Lennon, his legacy, the Beatles and pop music generally, not to mention a bit of history thrown in at the end there as well.

Thanks jod23 and the others - most entertaining, loved every minute of it

cheers

 

[jod23]

Thanks BSA. Thats why i said proudest moment, i really enjoyed this topic. Nobody got nasty and everyone had insightful responses to Pop Beatles and of course the man of the moment John Lennon. Thanks to everyone who posted on this thread. Enjoyed every post.

cheers

 

[AlfAndrews]

And if we keep on going off on new tangents with this, the topic might still be going strong when the next anniversary of John Lennon's death comes around ... and we can start all over again. By which time, of course we'll have a couple of thousand posts and will have discussed every significant issue known to humanity ... all of which, naturally enough, will be intricately connected to the life of the great man himself, thus illustrating the importance of this man to the course of human history.

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**floreat pica**

 

[jod23]

Alf what should the new topic be about then.
It would need to stand the test of time.

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I'm over exposure, I need to levitate above this experience, I need to find a way today for far away.