Coach John Longmire - Part III

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Grongey said:
And the Roos have Rhyce Shaw right under their noses, the players love him, and winning matches
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I can very very easily see a Paul Roos/ Terry Wallace 2002 situation playing out at the Roos before the end of the year.

If Shaw can keep up the improvement I can't see the logic in going for a different coach.
 
Bonz said:
I can very very easily see a Paul Roos/ Terry Wallace 2002 situation playing out at the Roos before the end of the year.

If Shaw can keep up the improvement I can't see the logic in going for a different coach.
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Something that is being undersold in the comparisons to the Roos/Swans takeover I think is that Roos didn't just get over the line because the players wanted him. Roos also got over the line because he had a really clear and ambitious plan for the future. From all accounts, his presentation to the board showed a real path forward which showed the way towards contending for flags.

Any reasonable judge would have to be thinking right now, is this North revival sustainable for year on year under Shaw? Is this just an emotional reaction which will peter out when other clubs start figuring them out? Or if/when Shaw becomes permanent? He has got the players on board clearly, and that's a big tick for his coaching ambitions, but if I was the North board, I would want to see a well-thought out plan for what he plans on doing the next few years before signing him up.
 
BruceFromBalnarring said:
Really? But we're supposed to take seriously your repeated (over and over and bloody over) claims that Dawson and Aliir should have been selected earlier than they were and it's to Horse's discredit that they weren't despite the evidence from Dawson at least that he wasn't fit enough or ready and the objective evidence that Aliir's form didn't warrant senior selection after his little indiscretion. Ignoring, of course, the completeness of both of their games now they are fixtures. It's almost as though they'd been managed brilliantly!

See the thing is, your (and others') case against Horse is simply flimsy, cliche ridden, and lazily put.

"We're not direct enough."
"Chippety chip".
"The game has moved past him."

But you have nothing of substance to support that.

Here's something of substance.

Only West Coast, Geelong, and Hawthorn have had less access to Top 20 draft talent than the Swans over the last decade. Hawthorn by design.

None of those clubs have had to serve a trade ban in that time. And yet we're in the top 3 on a win/loss basis for the last decade.

And only the wilfully blind couldn't see that our current (very young) group is playing with a self belief that belies their average age.

But hey, give us back another 1 line cliche to demonstrate the depth of your argument.
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Time is short and there is little point in a long rebuttal.

Yes, the Club has done pretty well. The point is we should have done better with the list we had. Poor selection, inc of injured players inc in 2016 debacle, 5-4-34, Owen 6, the shameful 2014 GF all cast doubt on the patina of his record. So now he seems to be playing Moneyball - at least he learned something from the Tippett trade.

IMO the Club should give him the last 7 games to see how the team develops and hold off any negotiations until then. After all he is contracted to end 2020. If in the meantime, the Club finds firm evidence he is in discussions with Norf, they should kick him to the kerb.
 

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Bonz said:
I can very very easily see a Paul Roos/ Terry Wallace 2002 situation playing out at the Roos before the end of the year.

If Shaw can keep up the improvement I can't see the logic in going for a different coach.
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So Longmire could find himself in a similar position to Wallace. (Horse pulling the Plough)
 
Our best coaches are now behind us & we need to get used to the new normal again where we will struggle to attract a group of players unless we have an attractive retention element put into our cap as it was in the older days when we started this climb to being a destination club. All I currently can foresee is a revolving door of players until we get our facilities right, but most important of all, a strong personality of a coach that can be responsible for keeping the playing group content & giving their best.
Horse may genuinely be past this with us but anyone short of Clarkson, Lyon & Roos (not my choices) wouldn't cut it. Not even Rhyce Shaw should he come back because sponsors are part of the whole deal & they need to see that we have a strong personality at the helm.
 
BruceFromBalnarring said:
If I want to see pretty, I’ll go to the ballet.

I want to see my bunch of blokes beat the other bunch of blokes in a physical contest.

Footy “brands” mean nothing to me. It’s a made up expression that looks with rose coloured glasses back on the 70s and 80s as though the standard of footy back then was somehow superior.


Gee you got that wrong ! as of most times , where did I say I didn't want a physical game.
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Tedeski said:
Our best coaches are now behind us & we need to get used to the new normal again where we will struggle to attract a group of players unless we have an attractive retention element put into our cap as it was in the older days when we started this climb to being a destination club. All I currently can foresee is a revolving door of players until we get our facilities right, but most important of all, a strong personality of a coach that can be responsible for keeping the playing group content & giving their best.
Horse may genuinely be past this with us but anyone short of Clarkson, Lyon & Roos (not my choices) wouldn't cut it. Not even Rhyce Shaw should he come back because sponsors are part of the whole deal & they need to see that we have a strong personality at the helm.
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Creating a false narrative there
 
Bonz said:
I can very very easily see a Paul Roos/ Terry Wallace 2002 situation playing out at the Roos before the end of the year.

If Shaw can keep up the improvement I can't see the logic in going for a different coach.
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It’s norf

What’s logic got to do with it
 
Tedeski said:
Oh!
I thought I was just expressing my opinion of what could lie ahead for our club should we not address certain issues, with facilities being one.
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Ted is spot on re our facilities. I read an article last year (prolly on line) that claimed our facilities were near the worst in the AFL. This year I heard Crouch pointing to the lack of resources he has for his key role.
 

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Well actually we don't really need to say anything more than we have already said because Horse is still our coach next season & under contract so our obligations have been fulfilled. We may very well have an agreement with Horse that he sees out his contract while we are still developing these youngsters, with another coach to come on board in 2021 & Horse moving on then.

I see the North & Carlton thing as two teams sacking their coaches early in order to look serious about getting someone like Longmire to their club. We don't really have to do anything because all the chatter is not going to affect any chance we have of winning a p'ship this season as we won't even make finals. So we are just sitting tight knowing we have a coach for season 2020 & one who is being heavily chased by a few basket case clubs, one of them North who are flying under their caretaker coach.

So worse case scenario is Carlton or North will need to pay huge dollars in order to get such a coach to their club, whereas we already have him & would just need to give him a little extension without the significant pay rise & hit to our soft cap.
So we definitely hold the upper hand in this whole situation & have publicly said all we have to say.
Horse is our coach for this year & for 2020.
North & Carlton don't officially have a coach for 2020.
They both have some work to do right now & not us.
 
Tedeski said:
We do need to address our facilities real quick though because that will be our biggest issue going forward with enticing players to our club.
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Good thing we are building new facilities then! Already in the pipeline.
 
Bloodied52 said:
Yes. However it is reasonable to ask why the Board (and the AFL) delayed initiating the new facilities.
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The logical answer to that is timing. You can’t just say ‘this is what we want and this is how we’re going to go about it’! As with any building, there’s a massive process to undertake with planning before taking that proposal to the key stakeholders. That’s where the fun begins...who pays for it? Big project, benefits a successful and expanding football club, benefits a successful netball club, offers community facilities and ‘nek minut’ the timing...hey look, State & Federal Elections are being held soon, let’s go extract some money from the promised lands!

Edit: I’ve obviously dumbed it down quite significantly and have no idea what the relevance to Longmire is but whatever!
 
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Tedeski said:
Yes Masey but it seems to be held up or behind schedule.
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My understanding is the plan since it was announced was to have it up and running by preseason 2020, if not shortly after.

I believe construction is due to start late this year (October rings a bell?) and take around 12 months. From what I’ve read anyway.

Our lease on the facility only started in May.
 
Mick Oxlong said:
The logical answer to that is timing. You can’t just say ‘this is what we want and this is how we’re going to go about it’! As with any building, there’s a massive process to undertake with planning before taking that proposal to the key stakeholders. That’s where the fun begins...who pays for it? Big project, benefits a successful and expanding football club, benefits a successful netball club, offers community facilities and ‘nek minut’ the timing...hey look, State & Federal Elections are being held soon, let’s go extract some money from the promised lands!

Edit: I’ve obviously dumbed it down quite significantly and have no idea what the relevance to Longmire is but whatever!
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Agreed. The question is if we are at the bottom of the totem pole, how did this come to be?
 
TheMase said:
My understanding is the plan since it was announced was to have it up and running by preseason 2020, if not shortly after.

I believe construction is due to start late this year (October rings a bell?) and take around 12 months. From what I’ve read anyway.

Our lease on the facility only started in May.
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Ok then!
Perhaps it is the start of lease date that had confused me as I thought that we were ready to roll right when the lease started. Keeping on topic though;), it's important we get started soon so Longmire resigns.
 
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