Coach John Longmire

[RUNVS]

But we haven’t seen a “prolonged period of poor performance”. We’ve see a less than impressive start to the year which has delivered 3-2 record. We saw a even poorer start last year and we were 0-6 before turning it around and making finals. We are in a better position than last season.

I understand many don’t like the gameplan Horse puts in place, and I can also understand if they feel a different gameplan or coach would get more out of the players, but a prolonged period of poor performance there has not been and therefore calls for Horse to walk away from, or the club to terminate his contract are unrealistic.

I am not suggesting firing Longmire, I just want the club to give him an intervention as the gameplan he has has been proven to get us into finals but has also been proven not to be capable of winning the Grand Final. If the game plan can't bring us a flag, then it is time to change the game plan.

 

[Blacky]

But we haven’t seen a “prolonged period of poor performance”. We’ve see a less than impressive start to the year which has delivered 3-2 record. We saw a even poorer start last year and we were 0-6 before turning it around and making finals. We are in a better position than last season.

I understand many don’t like the gameplan Horse puts in place, and I can also understand if they feel a different gameplan or coach would get more out of the players, but a prolonged period of poor performance there has not been and therefore calls for Horse to walk away from, or the club to terminate his contract are unrealistic.

We fail to show up in big games and have a good list. We have less rope to give than a team with 22 18 year olds

 

[TheMase]

I am not suggesting firing Longmire, I just want the club to give him an intervention as the gameplan he has has been proven to get us into finals but has also been proven not to be capable of winning the Grand Final. If the game plan can't bring us a flag, then it is time to change the game plan.

Fair comments though I don’t agree it’s not capable of winning a Grand Final.

2014 was an abomination so let’s put that aside.

2016 if Buddy doesn’t get hurt early and Hannebery isn’t illegally taken out, we probably win. That is without even considering Parker had been injured the week prior, Aliir who was smashing it at the time got injured and we took McVeigh and Mills into the game who got injured only weeks earlier. Plus the umpires on the day!

2016 was a very unfortunate finish to the year. You can argue selection lost it for us, but either way the gameplan would have stood up if only a couple of those factors changed.

 

[The Gong]

Terry Wallace is available and full of valuable insights.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/04/23/swans-midfield-needs-more-imagination-wallace/

 

[TheMase]

We fail to show up in big games and have a good list. We have less rope to give than a team with 22 18 year olds

You want to throw in some money for the payout clause required? Maybe you should start a petition and a kickstarter campaign?

I think our list is overrated. We have some top end talent with the rest filled with average footballers.

A solid example of this is Des Headland who looked a gun in the making surrounded by Voss, Black, Power etc but didn’t get close to reaching those heights from Freo who didn’t have the same talent around him to bring him into the game.

That’s not to say we don’t have some promising youngsters but they aren’t ready to take that next step as yet.

 

[Blacky]

You want to throw in some money for the payout clause required? Maybe you should start a petition and a kickstarter campaign?

I think our list is overrated. We have some top end talent with the rest filled with average footballers.

A solid example of this is Des Headland who looked a gun in the making surrounded by Voss, Black, Power etc but didn’t get close to reaching those heights from Freo who didn’t have the same talent around him to bring him into the game.

That’s not to say we don’t have some promising youngsters but they aren’t ready to take that next step as yet.

If your arguement is that we can’t afford it, then I am satisfied with how this conversation is progressing.

I’ve acknoweldged it’s highly unlikely he will be replaced. Doesn’t mean I can vocalise my support for a replacement

 

[Blacky]

If you think the list is average then we can agree to disagree.

Quite obvious though that we aren’t getting anywhere close to a satisfactory output from them and I lay the blame at the feet of the guy in charge

 

[sataris]

At this stage, I wouldn't be considering an automatic extension.

 

[SM]

God help us when we're a bottom 4 side.

We'll find out soon I guess.

 

[Blacky]

We'll find out soon I guess.

We would be without Horse clearly

 

[SM]

I do think our list is embarrassingly thin in key positions. I can't name another club in the comp where if you took their equivalent of Grundy, Sinclair and Buddy out would be just quite as bad as us.

 

[Number37]

Horse's contract should be extended by 5 years, he's earned it.

 

[caesar88]

Of course he is. He is also equally responsible for presiding over just about the most successful period in the clubs history.

He, along with Roos and Eade have turned too many of our supporters into spoilt children.

The carry on around here by some has been embarrassing. People are now blinded to anything good he does and we have 2.5 years left before the club will be in a position to cut him should they deem that the appropriate action.

These days if we lose, many here will throw their toys out of the cot and throw stones at Longmire. If we win, people still find something to complain about and sometimes there is even an air of disappointment because it keeps the status quo with him in charge! Some genuinely want us to tank or lose every game from here!

Absolutely pathetic!

All of this is based on your opinion of what a supporter should be. I won't hold that against you.

My opinion of a supporter is you want the best for your club, and you don't get personal. Everything else is fair game if it's all in the realm of wanting what is best for the club, but everyone has their own idea of what makes a good supporter. I don't even agree with some on here who are calling for Horse's head, but I highly doubt they're doing it out of personal hatred for Longmire, or because they're throwing their toys out the pram. They're doing it because they want what's best for their club. If they see the coach as getting in the way of that, they have every right to say so, so long as they have actual complaints or criticisms about what Longmire's doing, not just "he's ugly and dumb sack him" or something along those lines.

As far as I've seen, all of Longmire's critics and doubters on here have got valid complaints, whether you or I agree with them or not.

Stop dictating how people can and can't support their club. No individual is greater than the club, and if Horse wasn't OK with being criticised he'd never have signed up for a job as senior coach of an AFL club.

 

[Number37]

All of this is based on your opinion of what a supporter should be. I won't hold that against you.

My opinion of a supporter is you want the best for your club, and you don't get personal. Everything else is fair game if it's all in the realm of wanting what is best for the club, but everyone has their own idea of what makes a good supporter. I don't even agree with some on here who are calling for Horse's head, but I highly doubt they're doing it out of personal hatred for Longmire, or because they're throwing their toys out the pram. They're doing it because they want what's best for their club. If they see the coach as getting in the way of that, they have every right to say so, so long as they have actual complaints or criticisms about what Longmire's doing, not just "he's ugly and dumb sack him" or something along those lines.

As far as I've seen, all of Longmire's critics and doubters on here have got valid complaints, whether you or I agree with them or not.

Stop dictating how people can and can't support their club. No individual is greater than the club, and if Horse wasn't OK with being criticised he'd never have signed up for a job as senior coach of an AFL club.

It is one thing to have valid criticisms it is another to completely ignore the many good things.
A reasonable view takes into account BOTH the valid criticisms and the many good things.

 

[caesar88]

It is one thing to have valid criticisms it is another to completely ignore the many good things.
A reasonable view takes into account BOTH the valid criticisms and the many good things.

But there's only so many times you can praise someone. Every conversation about Horse doesn't have to be prefaced with "he's a great coach and he's achieved a lot.." We all know his accomplishments, I don't think anyone here is suggesting he's a bad coach. But they're completely entitled to not rate him. It's like if someone said "Buddy is average", I would think they're completely crackers but I wouldn't be offended or bothered by their opinion.

 

[TheMase]

I won't hold that against you.

.

What a relief

 

[Number37]

But there's only so many times you can praise someone. Every conversation about Horse doesn't have to be prefaced with "he's a great coach and he's achieved a lot.." We all know his accomplishments, I don't think anyone here is suggesting he's a bad coach. But they're completely entitled to not rate him. It's like if someone said "Buddy is average", I would think they're completely crackers but I wouldn't be offended or bothered by their opinion.

Plenty of people have said he is a shit coach, with only 1 trick, who has mostly achieved what he has because of the playing group at his disposal.

Clarko by comparison is a genius coach and his record has nothing do with the many match winners at his disposal.

 

[caesar88]

Plenty of people have said he is a shit coach, with only 1 trick, who has mostly achieved what he has because of the playing group at his disposal.

Clarko by comparison is a genius coach and his record has nothing do with the many match winners at his disposal.

I don't think I've seen anyone say he is a shit coach.

And if they have, so long as they can justify that belief, they're entitled to it. Even if you or I disagree with it.

Doesn't make them "Pathetic."

It makes them a human with an opinion.

 

[RW]

A reasonable view takes into account BOTH the valid criticisms and the many good things.

I'll have a crack at posting a reasonable view, here goes (take it or leave it):

Personally, I think we'd be nuts to change coaches before the end of Longmire's current contract when we're still in the process of rectifying previous recruiting mistakes, as the players we've introduced in the past couple of seasons have shown promise, and we still haven't seen the best of Heeney and Mills yet (imo). Yes his game plan isn't the most "attractive" but as discussed earlier in the thread, part of the reason we play this way is because our midfield doesn't have a lot of leg speed and they aren't the best kicks. Our 2005-06 sides were the same, but the biggest difference between those sides and this one was the ability to take the game on from the back half and stronger bodies to handle stoppage after stoppage. The current side does have a very good forward line when everyone is fit, it's too bad Reid got injured because the forward set up we played against GWS with Buddy dragging Davis up the ground and the goals being shared between a few players worked quite well I thought, almost like the way Clarko used to use Buddy at times!

Having said that, one outcome of the injuries to Franklin and Hannebery is that it should help resolve the debate between the Horse critics and his supporters on here. If we get through this, then it might well be an indicator that Horse, contrary to popular belief, can actually adapt.
If we fall apart, however, then those calling for change might have more reason to feel that their views on his game plan and our recruiting during his tenure have been validated. Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing how this phase of the season unfolds!

 

[Number37]

I'll have a crack at posting a reasonable view, here goes (take it or leave it):

Personally, I think we'd be nuts to change coaches before the end of Longmire's current contract when we're still in the process of rectifying previous recruiting mistakes, as the players we've introduced in the past couple of seasons have shown promise, and we still haven't seen the best of Heeney and Mills yet (imo). Yes his game plan isn't the most "attractive" but as discussed earlier in the thread, part of the reason we play this way is because our midfield doesn't have a lot of leg speed and they aren't the best kicks. Our 2005-06 sides were the same, but the biggest difference between those sides and this one was the ability to take the game on from the back half and stronger bodies to handle stoppage after stoppage. The current side does have a very good forward line when everyone is fit, it's too bad Reid got injured because the forward set up we played against GWS with Buddy dragging Davis up the ground and the goals being shared between a few players worked quite well I thought, almost like the way Clarko used to use Buddy at times!

Having said that, one outcome of the injuries to Franklin and Hannebery is that it should help resolve the debate between the Horse critics and his supporters on here. If we get through this, then it might well be an indicator that Horse, contrary to popular belief, can actually adapt.
If we fall apart, however, then those calling for change might have more reason to feel that their views on his game plan and our recruiting during his tenure have been validated. Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing how this phase of the season unfolds!

It won't matter what happens, Horse is cooked in some people's eyes.

Does he really have anything to prove?

 

[RW]

It won't matter what happens, Horse is cooked in some people's eyes.

Does he really have anything to prove?

Probably not, but I would hope that his goal is still to win, isn't that the point of competitive sport?

 

[MK38]

Ok so they are not injured. Then reprimand them with a run in the twos. Coaching is easy

I actually wasn't arguing whether they should or shouldn't get a run in the twos I was merely commenting on the fact that people keep on making statements as if they are in the know but really they have no idea.

 

[Number37]

Probably not, but I would hope that his goal is still to win, isn't that the point of competitive sport?

I doubt Horse or the club takes too much notice of what is written by the AFL media or arm chair experts.

I haven't watch too much footy this year but from what I have seen it has been pretty meh. So whilst we look like plodders so have all our major competitors.
I doubt we will win too many games with Buddy missing so its only going to get worse IMO before it starts getting better.

 

[RW]

I doubt Horse or the club takes too much notice of what is written by the AFL media or arm chair experts.

I haven't watch too much footy this year but from what I have seen it has been pretty meh. So whilst we look like plodders so have all our major competitors.
I doubt we will win too many games with Buddy missing so its only going to get worse IMO before it starts getting better.

You are right. The Tigers still look a cut above the rest with their speed though. I'm not as pessimistic as you about how we'll go with Buddy out, but it will be tough.

 

[The Swans Blog]

I do think our list is embarrassingly thin in key positions. I can't name another club in the comp where if you took their equivalent of Grundy, Sinclair and Buddy out would be just quite as bad as us.

Don't forget Reid and Tippett...