Coach John Longmire

[Tedeski]

Agree

But 9 years ...

But that was the only way the deal could be done. There had to be a ridiculous deal done because Buddy is a ridiculous player that we actually had no right to get!
It's just that we were smart/foolish enough to come up with such a scenario!

We'll all never really know exactly how the deal is drawn up. For example, is a significant part of it in the end made up

It's always good to read some articles from the past just to have an updated perspective on the deal now that the landscape has changed in the AFL with regards to what contracts other players at other clubs are signing & how much the cap is actually now at.
Check this one out for example!
http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/04/23/the-buddy-blindside-afls-biggest-signing-in-detail/

 

[The King!]

But that was the only way the deal could be done. There had to be a ridiculous deal done because Buddy is a ridiculous player that we actually had no right to get!
It's just that we were smart/foolish enough to come up with such a scenario!

We'll all never really know exactly how the deal is drawn up. For example, is a significant part of it in the end made up

It's always good to read some articles from the past just to have an updated perspective on the deal now that the landscape has changed in the AFL with regards to what contracts other players at other clubs are signing & how much the cap is actually now at.
Check this one out for example!
http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/04/23/the-buddy-blindside-afls-biggest-signing-in-detail/

Trouble is we signed him and the AFL moved the goal posts

 

[Tuco]

If it takes an unprecedented - arguably ludicrous - deal for him to do so, then it's evident that playing for the particular club is not his primary motivation.

If the cost is compromising the strength of your side for years to come, then maybe saying no is the smart move.

As it has panned out the deal itself was a non-issue. Multiple clubs have or are planning similar deals all around the League.

The real issue was the tradeban, the changes to the Acadamy bidding system (which cost us Dunkley), the proxy war on CoLA fought by Eddie (but really backed by Fitzpatrick and co in their rage response to Buddy not joining GWS), and the endless list of interpretation changes which were essentially created almost specifically to destroy our brand of football.

Should our list managers really have to be cognisant of unspecified and unknowable political ramifications which are completely unrelated to what was a completely transparent trade deal which broke no rules?

 

[Tedeski]

Trouble is we signed him and the AFL moved the goal posts

Well this is why I am loathe to attack the club at this point in time & that may change later but we have done an incredible job of hanging in there & keeping 95%of our players content as we had to suddenly lose our assistance. Of course players were going to leave, Tom Mitchell for example. The carrot was taken away for him to stay away from his local state. It's all about money after all & as you said, we were forced to cut. We recruited Buddy knowing we had that assistance. Now whether we should have had it still is beside the point as the deals for Tippo & Buddy were done knowing where the goal posts were.

But that is just what I think & we have far more knowledgeable supporters than me on here that can pull out statistics that say I am way wrong!

 

[MarkP]

The game plan could not beat the dogs nor the giants and we lost the grand final

Yet have made no tweaks and not evolved. Thats the issue right now

You cant keep doing the same thing over and over and over and expect it to suddenly produce a different result

That's the key.

The game plan allows a seriously talented list to bully lesser opponents.

When you meet a coach with half decent cattle and a brain at his disposal it goes to shit.

And everyone has caught on now unfortunately.

 

[Donners]

As it has panned out the deal itself was a non-issue. Multiple clubs have or are planning similar deals all around the League.

The real issue was the tradeban, the changes to the Acadamy bidding system (which cost us Dunkley), the proxy war on CoLA fought by Eddie (but really backed by Fitzpatrick and co in their rage response to Buddy not joining GWS), and the endless list of interpretation changes which were essentially created almost specifically to destroy our brand of football.

Should our list managers really have to be cognisant of unspecified and unknowable political ramifications which are completely unrelated to what was a completely transparent trade deal which broke no rules?

The deal itself is a big issue which will have ramifications for years to come. That's a huge chunk of a salary cap tied up in one player for what will likely be several years past his prime.

Unless I've missed some big news, nobody is offering a player of that age such a long and expensive contract, let alone clubs "all around the League". The Josh Kelly offer is a rumour at this point, and he's a lot younger.

Given the fuss over the Tippett signing, I don't think it is any surprise that Franklin was the catalyst to end CoLA. The changes to the bidding system didn't cost us Dunkley; we chose to let him go to the Dogs for family reasons.

The trade ban was silly and unpredictable, though.

 

[sataris]

The deal itself is a big issue which will have ramifications for years to come. That's a huge chunk of a salary cap tied up in one player for what will likely be several years past his prime.

Unless I've missed some big news, nobody is offering a player of that age such a long and expensive contract, let alone clubs "all around the League". The Josh Kelly offer is a rumour at this point, and he's a lot younger.

Given the fuss over the Tippett signing, I don't think it is any surprise that Franklin was the catalyst to end CoLA. The changes to the bidding system didn't cost us Dunkley; we chose to let him go to the Dogs for family reasons.

The trade ban was silly and unpredictable, though.

'

I actually think the trade ban was the biggest blindside, we thought we could manage it and trade in/out as necessary after the buddy deal.

That all probably got scuppered when we found out about it, and were in an unplanned situation

 

[Tuco]

The deal itself is a big issue which will have ramifications for years to come. That's a huge chunk of a salary cap tied up in one player for what will likely be several years past his prime.

Unless I've missed some big news, nobody is offering a player of that age such a long and expensive contract, let alone clubs "all around the League". The Josh Kelly offer is a rumour at this point, and he's a lot younger.

Given the fuss over the Tippett signing, I don't think it is any surprise that Franklin was the catalyst to end CoLA. The changes to the bidding system didn't cost us Dunkley; we chose to let him go to the Dogs for family reasons.

The trade ban was silly and unpredictable, though.

You will see by next year Dusty, Fyfe, maybe Scully, will be on post cba scale deals that will be in the vicinity of Buddy's in any given year (bar a couple). Boyd is on $6m over 6 years already.

Right now Dangerfueld would have been on a very similar quantum if he hadn't taken a paycut to get to his Cats. $1.2m was on the table for him elsewhere. He's accepted something in the mid $800's.

By the end of Buddy's deal it will just be one of many.

It's the term of 9 years that was the boldest part. Hawks offered him more per year than we did but over a shorter term.

I agree it was unlikely we would have drafted Josh with him showing signs of maybe being a flight risk. But under the old system we could have. However, without the free shot the old system afforded of simply offeting the next pick to match a bid, the massive points committment to land him would have blown our whole draft into the next year so the risk was too much. We wouldn't have picked him either way.

 

[Superstar swan]

The game plan could not beat the dogs nor the giants and we lost the grand final

Yet have made no tweaks and not evolved. Thats the issue right now

You cant keep doing the same thing over and over and over and expect it to suddenly produce a different result

my point exactly..

 

[bungee]

The game plan could not beat the dogs nor the giants and we lost the grand final

Yet have made no tweaks and not evolved. Thats the issue right now

You cant keep doing the same thing over and over and over and expect it to suddenly produce a different result

We all know our game plan should have won us the GF given a fit team and a fair dealing by the umpires. Methinks the issue is as much about not having the personnel to execute the gameplan, either through poor performances, poor leadership or injury. The first 5 minutes of the GWS game showed how effective it can be if executed well. Devastatingly effective. As for evolution, it takes time to change the game plan. More spread and speed for instance requires more outside players, better kicks and faster players. We have to work with what we have going right back to recruitment.

The same game plan produced more wins than any other team in 2016 so we need to be careful of throwing the baby out with the bath-water.

 

[The King!]

We all know our game plan should have won us the GF given a fit team and a fair dealing by the umpires. Methinks the issue is as much about not having the personnel to execute the gameplan, either through poor performances, poor leadership or injury. The first 5 minutes of the GWS game showed how effective it can be if executed well. Devastatingly effective. As for evolution, it takes time to change the game plan. More spread and speed for instance requires more outside players, better kicks and faster players. We have to work with what we have going right back to recruitment.

The same game plan produced more wins than any other team in 2016 so we need to be careful of throwing the baby out with the bath-water.

What round do we throw the baby out


We got smashed by gws twice last year, when did we last beat the dogs? Struggled with hawks as well. We have not been all dominant and have struggled against good sides

 

[bungee]

What round do we throw the baby out


We got smashed by gws twice last year, when did we last beat the dogs? Struggled with hawks as well. We have not been all dominant and have struggled against good sides

And yet overall we were the most dominant team of 2016, winning the most games with the highest percentage. All teams have their bogies. Right now that's GWS and Dogs but I'm confident we can match them at our best. That will take masterful and subtle changes, not wholesale re-design of our team (which could see us bottom dwell for years as GWS and Dogs did).

Einstein's quote of the 'definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over etc' is used widely here but it's just a quote, not a fundamental axiom. For instance, one of my sons (13 yr old) has for the past years done the same thing over and over but not reached his goal of going under 5mins for 1500m. He kept training and training until recently he smashed it and ran 4:49. Now he has the belief and can easily repeat such times.

Einstein's quote is not always applicable. Sometimes it's just effort and belief that's missing.

 

[db swannie]

I don't want him sacked. But I do want to see him change things up a bit. We have the greatest half forward of a generation playing for us, and he spends half his time trying to bullock his way through congestion around packs in search of the ball. FFS Horse can we at least experiment with the idea of having our key forward targets playing in the forward line, and try clearing some space around the ball for a change and see if we can open things up a bit. We look terrible at the SCG, and have done so for a while.

Let's not waste what quality time we have left of Buddy by turning him into a midfield/wingman.

 

[Tesla Tenet]

And yet overall we were the most dominant team of 2016, winning the most games with the highest percentage. All teams have their bogies. Right now that's GWS and Dogs but I'm confident we can match them at our best. That will take masterful and subtle changes, not wholesale re-design of our team (which could see us bottom dwell for years as GWS and Dogs did).

Einstein's quote of the 'definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over etc' is used widely here but it's just a quote, not a fundamental axiom. For instance, one of my sons (13 yr old) has for the past years done the same thing over and over but not reached his goal of going under 5mins for 1500m. He kept training and training until recently he smashed it and ran 4:49. Now he has the belief and can easily repeat such times.

Einstein's quote is not always applicable. Sometimes it's just effort and belief that's missing.

Total rubbish. A 13 yo child improved. Stop the presses.

Longmire is challenging 17 other coaches, sorry 16, not Buckley but beat us, but Norf Scott trying with a crap list. Lyon changed and has won 3 straight.

Your son is trying to beat himself. An rigid target. Good luck to him, if he keeps training he will ran faster each time.

AFL is evolving rapidly this year and now its 1 on 1 footy, players in front of the ball, quick ball movement by foot or hands . Most teams are trying to get about 100-120 per week. Miss by 10 -20% and still would beat us.

Longmire plays the some, reactive, passive footy and we lost to the Magpies.

2 forwards spoiling each other. 4 defenders spoiling each other. 5 players running towards the same player with the ball. Its mind boggling.



Sent from my SM-T805Y using Tapatalk

 

[db swannie]

Depends on how much he was responsible for list management.

Whoever was behind letting go Biggs, Nankervis and Membrey needs a good kicking. Could have done with those three last night.

Well you can't keep them all. Membrey was offered the chance to play regular afl, instead of NEAFL.

 

[Tedeski]

Buddy doesn't hurt his ankle in the first 5 minutes of the GF & our game plan is fine.

It's a fine line! really!
Lets see what he has yo ssy tomight.

 

[The Swans Blog]

Transcript will be up tonight after On The Couch

 

[bedford]

Transcript will be up tonight after On The Couch

Transcript on what ?

 

[Troystenvic]

Horse on OTC and will drop a Kieran Jack bombshell according to Gerard Healy

 

[The Swans Blog]

Horse on 360 and will drop a Kieran Jack bombshell according to Gerard Healy

*On The Couch
*Horse won't drop the bombshell, Michael Warner claims to have some news, like how he's played with injury and didn't have a pre-season, that news.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Jack to be given a few weeks off due to a hip injury.

 

[SilentHunter_]

Mills to the middle thanks.

 

[db swannie]

Mills to the middle thanks.

Yep and bring AA back or Talia

 

[Troystenvic]

Horse on OTC

JL- Horse
GH - Gerard Healy
JB - Jonothan Brown
DK - David King
JD - Jason Dunstall

GH: Preamble - Reality remains Swans are 0 and 5 and that injuries have taken a toll.

JL: Kieran Jack to miss a couple of weeks with hip injury from prior JLT series. Its been getting worse not better as we had hoped.

JD: How hard is it to mange morale

JL: We arent used to being this end of the ladder but there are areas we need to fix and we need to get the balance right. We feel its not far away.

JB: what parts of the game has there has been the biggest drop

JL: A bit of everything. Some good footy in short bursts. Around the ball hasn't been up to standaed and going both ways have been poor

DK: Did you see this coming

JL: We need to make sure you find a way to win, we have been 5 weks behind most teams but we havent been able to find a way

GH: Are you concerned about drop off of senior players.

JL: we need to be better Hanners and Parker havent had a good run at it and we arent shying away from needing to be better

JD: MIlls addressing players instead of JPK

JL We see that as a positive. Doesnt always need to be JPK.

DK Do you need to change

JL Always changing Kingy. We have 9 or 10 different players from our GF side. We need to be more competitive and havent played our brand of footy

DK : What about mode and method

JL: Hasnt been where we want it to be we havent done what we would like too. Transition needs to be better.

JB: Cap challenges with LF and KT deals

JL : Market has changed and 5 year contracts the norm. We lost Tom but understand why he left. We have the players we want on long term contracts

JB: Hows Buddy

JL: Going well. He needs to improve defensively. He needs help forward and hopefully will get it in the next couple of weeks

JB: AA has been out, got dropped.

JL: Turf toe cost him 12 weeks of preseason. He hasnt had a good preparation. He hasn't been consistent thats why Melican came in and did well. We weren't planning in playing AA so early in the season.

JD: Sam Reid hot property on FA table does he owe swans something.

JL: We want him to stay and confident he will stay even though contract talks to one side and just play footy

GH: Hand over the mouth is your thing how did you react when Rampe went down

JL. Had him in my office an hour before talking about the previois week and couldnt believe when the meds come in to tell me he broke his arm.

GH: Thanks John Good Luck against Carlton (All with hands over mouth giggling and laughing)

NB: Not verbatim.

 

[J_Moore]

Questions were decentish, answers less so.

Major takeaway from me was that Horse believes what has been served up isn't "the gameplan". (To expand on Troystenvic's post above, King asked him if the gameplan needed to change. Horse said if it was being executed and it was failing, then it would need to change, but it wasn't being executed).

He mentioned we've been shit in transition, but didn't go into specifics.

I guess the question is whether his gameplan is actually implementable.