Coach John Longmire

[The King!]

Spot on. Some of the crap I read in here beggars belief.

We won, pull ya heads in.

So if we win you cant touch him

If we lose its like well you didnt complain when we won

So basically Horse is untouchable

 

[The King!]

Far out this board makes it sound like we have Alan Richardson as coach

Stkildas list is a load of junk compared to the swans

 

[SM]

Spot on. Some of the crap I read in here beggars belief.

We won, pull ya heads in.

Don't be so reactionary. One win doesn't change anything, especially when it exposes the main criticism that he is too focused on buddy.

 

[The King!]

Don't be so reactionary. One win doesn't change anything, especially when it exposes the main criticism that he is too focused on buddy.

And watching the replay it took him 3 quarters to make obvious adjustments that commentators kept wondering about.

If anything should of led all day not need a miracle comeback , hardly sustainable

 

[TheMase]

And watching the replay it took him 3 quarters to make obvious adjustments that commentators kept wondering about.

If anything should of led all day not need a miracle comeback , hardly sustainable

3 quarters ?

Not sure what game you watched but we dominated the first quarter and should have been up by more.

 

[BloodySwan]

"Horse has already lost the game on the selection table" - despite playing an incredibly short team it didn't seem to matter too much
"Horse plays too defensively" - The cats averaged 96 points across the first 5 rounds and the Swans kept them to 69 at their home fortress. Considering we lacked firepower up front it didn't seem like the best idea to go all on the offensive
"Horse is too stubborn to make changes during a game" - this criticism has changed to that he's too slow to make changes. Despite Horse making changes during every game this season unless the commentators point it out people don't seem to see it

Horse isn't a bad coach, his record proves that. Horse is just not the coach some Swans fans want because he doesn't play the game they want the Swans to play.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

"Horse has already lost the game on the selection table" - despite playing an incredibly short team it didn't seem to matter too much
"Horse plays too defensively" - The cats averaged 96 points across the first 5 rounds and the Swans kept them to 69 at their home fortress. Considering we lacked firepower up front it didn't seem like the best idea to go all on the offensive
"Horse is too stubborn to make changes during a game" - this criticism has changed to that he's too slow to make changes. Despite Horse making changes during every game this season unless the commentators point it out people don't seem to see it

Horse isn't a bad coach, his record proves that. Horse is just not the coach some Swans fans want because he doesn't play the game they want the Swans to play.

Expectations of the Sydney Swans in 2018 is through the roof.

 

[Carolyn]

Stkildas list is a load of junk compared to the swans

I’m not saying he’s the perfect coach or he can’t be criticised but I just meant he gets way more criticism than he deserves.

A lot of other posts have pointed to our remarkable finals and win/loss records under him but even other small things like the way he always persists with kids (e.g how many people wanted Florent dropped at the start), not faltering ladder position even with that ridiculous trade ban and our player retention rate despite being the most expensive city in country and having a “bursting” salary cap (look at Adelaide- “We Flee As One” more like it). I think all that starts with the head coach though obviously other parties help.

Anyway opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and this is just mine...
opinion not arseh*le

 

[MF]

3 quarters ?

Not sure what game you watched but we dominated the first quarter and should have been up by more.

And even the first half of the 2nd quarter as well, we just couldn't capitalize up forward.

 

[RW]

Friendly reminder: the topic of this thread is Longmire's coaching, not other people's posts. If you disagree with the opinions being posted, you're more than welcome to provide your own opinion on the topic.

 

[Deccas]

So if we win you cant touch him

If we lose its like well you didnt complain when we won

So basically Horse is untouchable

No one is saying horse is untouchable, just that the rhetoric "horse is a brainless goon an idiot, a moron, and the worst coach in the league" is hyperbolic nonsense that a lot of people on here are really bored of hearing.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[J_Moore]

So if we win you cant touch him

If we lose its like well you didnt complain when we won

So basically Horse is untouchable

Given some people greet every win with ‘this team could coach itself Horse has nothing to do with it’, it’s almost like the unfalsifiability of Longmire’s competence/incompetence runs both ways, depending on what you already believe.

 

[6yearsold]

Regarding the loose man thing...

What people don't seem to grasp is that by automatically manning up a loose opposition defender you're not only crowding your own forward line, but you're giving the opposition space to lead into in their own. "man him up" is often exactly what the opposition want. While not always the case, it's generally a much better idea to have your own loose man up the field.

A loose man in our forward line apparently kills us, but heaven forbid should we ever send Reid down back... sheer lunacy!

for me it is about when horse does it. there have been many occasions when we get on a roll, 3 or 4 goals and it gets to the last 5 minutes and he puts reid back to protect the lead rather than trying to extend it. it is an utterly defensive mindset that means we hardly ever put teams away when we have the opportunity. instead we leave them in the contest right up to the end.

then there are those occasions when we are 3 or 4 down in the 3rd quarter and he puts a man back and we might end up losing by 1 or 2 goals. if he didn't do that we wouldd at least have a chance of winning the game.

horse is still got us playing like we have the same cattle we did when roos was coaching.

it shouldn't take two quarters of getting smashed to realise that the loose man in defence isn't working for us. sometimes it does but it depends on the opposition.

 

[Kummerspeck]

horse is still got us playing like we have the same cattle we did when roos was coaching.

That's demonstrably false.

it shouldn't take two quarters of getting smashed to realise that the loose man in defence isn't working for us. sometimes it does but it depends on the opposition.

The second quarter allowing them the loose man still got us what would have been four marks inside 50 / shots at goal of not for poor calls from the umpires. Assuming Parker kicks his from the top of the square and Mills(?) Shot from 25 goes through, and the other two miss, we would have been leading at the half.

I know it's hypothetical, but the point is the way we were setting up was still allowing the team opportunities in dangerous positions.

 

[sataris]

No one is saying horse is untouchable, just that the rhetoric "horse is a brainless goon an idiot, a moron, and the worst coach in the league" is hyperbolic nonsense that a lot of people on here are really bored of hearing.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

Good thing that nobody has said that then.

Given some people greet every win with ‘this team could coach itself Horse has nothing to do with it’, it’s almost like the unfalsifiability of Longmire’s competence/incompetence runs both ways, depending on what you already believe.

This is on the mark.

Contrast this with "It's not horse dropping marks, and missing sitters" type posts and that are easily countered with
"it's not horse kicking goals or taking marks either"

People fall into one of 2 camps (I believe)

1. The head coach is ultimately responsible for the performance of the team
2. The head coach is not ultimately responsible for the performance of the team (Recruitment manager, selection committees etc, all play a role).

I fall into camp #1 and I suspect others fall into camp #2.

If the team's not performing, whether it's players in bad form, poor gameplan or poor skills. There is someone who is responsible for all these areas.

I believe it's the head coach.

Other's don't and that's where the disconnect and the arguing comes from.

I could be wrong.

FFS, you've made me make a serious post.

 

[caesar88]

No one is saying horse is untouchable, just that the rhetoric "horse is a brainless goon an idiot, a moron, and the worst coach in the league" is hyperbolic nonsense that a lot of people on here are really bored of hearing.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

Very few people actually post shallow criticisms like that. If they do, it's usually around game-time and probably out of frustration.

For the most part, people have had legitimate complaints and critiques of Longmire. You may see holes in his game plan everywhere, I may see a flawless team grinding out a hard win. Both opinions are fine. It's a discussion board, so if there are faults why can't they be discussed?

FWIW I agree that the "horse is dumb" type comments without any sort of justification or reasoning don't really achieve much, and give the poster's arguments even less credibility.

 

[bungee]

Good thing that nobody has said that then.




This is on the mark.

Contrast this with "It's not horse dropping marks, and missing sitters" type posts and that are easily countered with
"it's not horse kicking goals or taking marks either"

People fall into one of 2 camps (I believe)

1. The head coach is ultimately responsible for the performance of the team
2. The head coach is not ultimately responsible for the performance of the team (Recruitment manager, selection committees etc, all play a role).

I fall into camp #1 and I suspect others fall into camp #2.

If the team's not performing, whether it's players in bad form, poor gameplan or poor skills. There is someone who is responsible for all these areas.

I believe it's the head coach.

Other's don't and that's where the disconnect and the arguing comes from.

I could be wrong.

FFS, you've made me make a serious post.

So based on Camp 1. Horse, on the team's record under him, is one of the best coaches in the league and based on Camp 2. Our coaching/recruiting/selection staff are, on the team's record under them, are one of the best football departments in the league.

On the other point about abusive language. Go back and read the disgusting things said about Horse, especially on the game day thread. Calling him a pathetic cnt or worse is no less offensive because it drops a vowel and sneaks past the swear filter. It's offensive to the majority of fans on this board to call anyone the sort of names Horse has been called, let alone someone so admired and respected by The Swans and the AFL community. Spinelessly hiding behind an avatar is pathetic. The tiny little people who use such terms should be called out by the mods and banned.

 

[bungee]

Don't be so reactionary. One win doesn't change anything, especially when it exposes the main criticism that he is too focused on buddy.

One win doesn't change everything ? Try any loss is one loss too many for some.

FFS. We've had 4 of 6 wins this year despite a tough draw. We've enjoyed a > 70 % win rate and finals during every year of Horse's tenure. When does it become more than one win in some people's eyes ? We have a a few fair weather supporters who expect us to win the premiership every year and forget or haven't experienced what it's like not to have a good coach. Instead they denigrate the main person responsible for allowing us to luxuriate in consistent success. Ask a few other teams if they'd enjoy our success. Those claiming it's all about the Swans' list are kidding themselves. Ask the Saints if they'd trade Horse for Richardson. They're an example of club who have had access to so much talent through sustained poor ladder performances yet have failed to turn that talent into success.

 

[bungee]

Very few people actually post shallow criticisms like that. If they do, it's usually around game-time and probably out of frustration.

For the most part, people have had legitimate complaints and critiques of Longmire. You may see holes in his game plan everywhere, I may see a flawless team grinding out a hard win. Both opinions are fine. It's a discussion board, so if there are faults why can't they be discussed?

FWIW I agree that the "horse is dumb" type comments without any sort of justification or reasoning don't really achieve much, and give the poster's arguments even less credibility.

As I've said. I don't think anyone has an issue with constructive or well reasoned criticism of aspects of Horse's coaching or of the football department but let's start from a premise that Horse and his staff have done a damn fine job to get us where we are and keep us there for so long. Anything that can add to that success is welcome.

Unsupported criticism, downright foul-mouthed denigration and calls for sacking, whether in this thread or others just shows a lack of respect for the club and a sad lack of football judgement.

 

[bungee]

Friendly reminder: the topic of this thread is Longmire's coaching, not other people's posts. If you disagree with the opinions being posted, you're more than welcome to provide your own opinion on the topic.

The same respect for other posters should be afforded to others from The Swans, including the coach. The same standards for language and personal attacks should apply for most people*

*An obvious exception is Eddie (the Mouth) of Collingwood where we can all agree that he is a complete ....t

 

[SM]

The same respect for other posters should be afforded to others from The Swans, including the coach. The same standards for language and personal attacks should apply for most people*

*An obvious exception is Eddie (the Mouth) of Collingwood where we can all agree that he is a complete ....t

Haha I think we're allowed to shit talk players and coaches when it's not to them, rather than other posters..

 

[bungee]

Haha I think we're allowed to shit talk players and coaches when it's not to them, rather than other posters..

Constructive criticism is fine but just trash talking a Swans player is as offensive to me as someone calling me a whatever. There's a big difference between "Jones needs to work on his awareness" and "Jones is a useless cnt". I'm not even fond of Jones but these guys go out every week and get smashed up so I can strut around during the week with boasting rights. I'm damned if someone gets to hide behind an avatar and spray them with filth yet wud feel offended if someone used the same language to their face.*

*Confession : I did once call Dunstall a has-been to his face (or the back his face) during a game against the Swans many years ago. I said it with some venom and he had a dreadful game. I used to feel guilty but now he just pisses me off.

BTW : Why can't an entire commentary team get Sam Reid's name right ? Eddie should know he's not Ben.

 

[SM]

Constructive criticism is fine but just trash talking a Swans player is as offensive to me as someone calling me a whatever. There's a big difference between "Jones needs to work on his awareness" and "Jones is a useless cnt". I'm not even fond of Jones but these guys go out every week and get smashed up so I can strut around during the week with boasting rights. I'm damned if someone gets to hide behind an avatar and spray them with filth yet wud feel offended if someone used the same language to their face.*

*Confession : I did once call Dunstall a has-been to his face (or the back his face) during a game against the Swans many years ago. I said it with some venom and he had a dreadful game. I used to feel guilty but now he just pisses me off.

BTW : Why can't an entire commentary team get Sam Reid's name right ? Eddie should know he's not Ben.

That's sweet that you take offence for them, but it's really not the same.

 

[bungee]

That's sweet that you take offence for them, but it's really not the same.

No, it's worse in my book. I can laugh about anything said to my face. People slagging off others that I respect is offensive. It also makes that poster look small and pathetic.

 

[caesar88]

One win doesn't change everything ? Try any loss is one loss too many for some.

FFS. We've had 4 of 6 wins this year despite a tough draw. We've enjoyed a > 70 % win rate and finals during every year of Horse's tenure. When does it become more than one win in some people's eyes ? We have a a few fair weather supporters who expect us to win the premiership every year and forget or haven't experienced what it's like not to have a good coach. Instead they denigrate the main person responsible for allowing us to luxuriate in consistent success. Ask a few other teams if they'd enjoy our success. Those claiming it's all about the Swans' list are kidding themselves. Ask the Saints if they'd trade Horse for Richardson. They're an example of club who have had access to so much talent through sustained poor ladder performances yet have failed to turn that talent into success.

This isn't my view, but it's not a matter of people expecting us to win a flag every year, but rather trying to win the flag. Some people just have a different span of tolerance for under-achieving, and if they feel we have the list to win a flag, but aren't winning one, then that is under-achieving (in their eyes.) Horse HAS been at the club for eight years now. Yes we choked and cost ourselves two flags that were within our reach, but it's about looking to the future. I'm a fairly optimistic person but even I think it will be incredibly difficult to reach another grand final or two and give ourselves another shot at the cup. That would mean four or five grand finals reached in under a decade. That's a tough ask so you have to understand that some just don't anticipate Horse being able to get us there.

I personally don't agree with that belief though. As I've said, getting to the finals or there abouts is what matters in this age of equalisation where you can win from anywhere. Horse has implemented a system that gets us wins, and helps us beat quality teams along the way. It will make me incredibly frustrated regarding selections and mid-match tactics, but I'd take those negatives any day if it meant a guaranteed chance at playing September footy. I don't think he has the nuance to strategise a confident win in a decider, but he could get us there which is the first step. And then you just never know, all it could take is a mighty effort from the boys (such as yesterday) and we could win it all.