Society/Culture Jordan B Peterson

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JackFlash

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Listen, it’s possible to criticise someone without trying to cancel them.

For fu** sake.
Critisize or vehemently oppose his point of view are two different things...Peterson has stirred up a truck load of controversy, particularly on the left who simply cannot stand him. They can't argue with him, so they would prefer to just cancel him instead of running around like a headless chook in frustration. The left have a tendency to prolong an argument rather than concede ground and they certainly do not entertain another opinion.
 

Osho

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Critisize or vehemently oppose his point of view are two different things...Peterson has stirred up a truck load of controversy, particularly on the left who simply cannot stand him. They can't argue with him, so they would prefer to just cancel him instead of running around like a headless chook in frustration. The left have a tendency to prolong an argument rather than concede ground and they certainly do not entertain another opinion.
A lot of the left are just religion replacement. More ideology, dogma, no self critique, and the hypocrisy. Plus, they can be like the Puritans, humourless killjoys. What an arid place to be.
 

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bourbons

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lol

Teh left, teh leefft, TEH LEEEFFFFFT!!!1

hqdefault.jpg
 

ElectricG

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You think his followers don't know anything about his struggles with drug addiction and mental health problems?
I don’t know. I read 12 rules and liked it so I guess I’m a follower. I had no idea about half the stuff you are talking about. I think the intense interest in his personal life is borne in some sick schadenfreude.
 

Chief

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I don’t know. I read 12 rules and liked it so I guess I’m a follower. I had no idea about half the stuff you are talking about. I think the intense interest in his personal life is borne in some sick schadenfreude.
Noting how he personally doesn't follow his own philosophy isn't "intense interest in his personal life".

You just don't want him scrutinised.
 

ElectricG

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Noting how he personally doesn't follow his own philosophy isn't "intense interest in his personal life".

You just don't want him scrutinised.
I guess I feel like some of the cackling at his personal struggles goes beyond “scrutiny.”

His philosophical premise is the personal responsibility should be at the core of how we live.
And?
 

Soft Downhill Skier

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I guess I feel like some of the cackling at his personal struggles goes beyond “scrutiny.”


And?
He has no self awareness to realise that substance abuse causes many to live horrible lives. Because had the means to seek help, he will be ok. Others who don't benefit from the privilege he gets, won't.

He will go on preaching his individuality stuff completely unaware of the structural benefits he gets. He's declining though.
 

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ElectricG

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He has no self awareness to realise that substance abuse causes many to live horrible lives. Because had the means to seek help, he will be ok. Others who don't benefit from the privilege he gets, won't.

He will go on preaching his individuality stuff completely unaware of the structural benefits he gets. He's declining though.
I’m trying to understand where the alleged hypocrisy is, exactly. I don’t remember him ever saying that people who need help shouldn’t get it. His views on personal responsibility aren’t some full blown libertarian thing.

If you don’t think personal responsibility should be one of the things at the core of how we live, what should replace it exactly?
 

Seeds

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I’m trying to understand where the alleged hypocrisy is, exactly. I don’t remember him ever saying that people who need help shouldn’t get it. His views on personal responsibility aren’t some full blown libertarian thing.

If you don’t think personal responsibility should be one of the things at the core of how we live, what should replace it exactly?
he is somewhat right on personal responsibility (although its more complicated that what he makes out). Pity he couldnt live up to his own idealogy and instead turned to drug abuse and thoughts of suicide rather then just act like a grown up and take personal responsibility.
 

ElectricG

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he is somewhat right on personal responsibility (although its more complicated that what he makes out). Pity he couldnt live up to his own idealogy and instead turned to drug abuse and thoughts of suicide rather then just act like a grown up and take personal responsibility.
Didn’t he develop a dependency on a medication he was prescribed for anxiety? I’ve just read his Wikipedia page so I am just learning all this.
Is going to the doctor for something, and taking the prescribed medication somehow shirking personal responsibility? Does JP promote personal responsibility as a substitute for medicine?

Unless there’s some part of the story I’m missing, I really don’t think what you’re saying holds water at all.
 

Carringbush2010

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His philosophical premise is the personal responsibility should be at the core of how we live.

It is and should be the priority! If everyone looked after their own backyard as good as possible then life for everyone would be immensely better.

No one is required to be a Peterson fan to see that logic.
 

Seeds

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Didn’t he develop a dependency on a medication he was prescribed for anxiety? I’ve just read his Wikipedia page so I am just learning all this.
Is going to the doctor for something, and taking the prescribed medication somehow shirking personal responsibility? Does JP promote personal responsibility as a substitute for medicine?

Unless there’s some part of the story I’m missing, I really don’t think what you’re saying holds water at all.
Anxiety (unless someone is trying to kill you) is largely a weakness of the mind. The one who tries to make money peddling books to deal with anxiety should not fall victim to it. Its a failure to take mental responsibility.
 

ElectricG

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Anxiety (unless someone is trying to kill you) is largely a weakness of the mind. The one who tries to make money peddling books to deal with anxiety should not fall victim to it. Its a failure to take mental responsibility.
Anxiety = failure to take mental responsibility.
I’m not sure that’s how anyone would categorise it. Where did you even get that? You just made that up because it gives you some flimsy basis to call JP out. Anxiety if anything is more often associated with struggling under the weight of responsibilities - not the evasion of responsibilities.
Where did JP ever claim that his book cures anxiety? When did he claim to be immune from it?
You are just making things up and it comes across really desperate.
 

Carringbush2010

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See that’s the thing with Peterson. When he’s not spectacularly wrong (see cultural Marxism) he’s offering platitudes. The sort of stuff responsible parents tell their kids.

I'm not defending his hypocrisy, just pointing that self responsibility should be first and foremost - that can't really be argued.
 

Chief

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I'm not defending his hypocrisy, just pointing that self responsibility should be first and foremost - that can't really be argued.
But it's just the conservative "self agency" fantasy.

If you're poor and homeless, a drug addict, in an abusive relationship, it's because you are lazy or decided to be that way so society shouldn't lift a finger to help you.

The black and white moral judgement keeps away the anxiety and uncertainty of a world of myriad, uncontrollable options.

It's garbage.
 

Carringbush2010

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But it's just the conservative "self agency" fantasy.

If you're poor and homeless, a drug addict, in an abusive relationship, it's because you are lazy or decided to be that way so society shouldn't lift a finger to help you.

The black and white moral judgement keeps away the anxiety and uncertainty of a world of myriad, uncontrollable options.

It's garbage.

I don't view it as and nor is it a conservative conspiracy theory fantasy as you do, nor do I view it as or is an either either as you've pointed out.

For example your homeless junkie in an abusive relationship is not solely and wholly a result of being lazy (whole self fault) and it is also not a result of society cheering not lifting a finger to help to further their demise.

And I really don't think anyone with any sense has a conspiracy theory that society is out to get you if you don't pull your weight and perform at optimum, that is absurd. It's not just about 'self agency' mate, otherwise we could not claim to be a 'liberal and free' society.

Sure you'll have these theorists with a chips on a their shoulder 'I hate myself coz I'm strayan' some sort of guilt association complex, that believe that utter bullshit - I'd hope you're not one of them. They wouldn't number in the majority that's for sure.

Disadvantaged people, not just homeless have a range of free options that society can help them with, none moreso than our western liberal democratic one that we live in.

Off the top of my head, financial counselling is a free service (my mother used to provide this service to the homeless and disadvantaged) to these people and if I am correct so is legal aid. I'm sure there are other free services to help aid people out of their situation.
 

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