Josh Fraser

[knightwheelrqr]

Was having a discussion can't remember with who. But about our rucking situation. I was saying that Fraser will play backup role to Jolly who will take 80-85% of the minutes with Fraser playing a similiar relieving role to Leigh Brown from this year. I was explaining that Fraser will be used more accross the half forwardline next season.

Whoever I was having the discussion with thought that Wood will be the Backup ruckman to Jolly, which while being a possibility I can't see as Fraser is a leader within the club both on and off the field and is well respected. He brings great versatility to the team and is a great ground level player for his height. I really like the idea of him playing 15-20% ruck and roaming around the half forward flank which might take some pressure off Travis Cloke hopefully giving us another tall option to further build upon our great forward flexibilitiy.

Article reflects exactly what I said yesterday.

*No I am not MM. Or a club insider. But just think that the timeing of the article was good.*

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/86330/default.aspx

 

[knightwheelrqr]

*My original post from yesterday was*


Re: Keep Pick 14 or Jolly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TradeDraft
I think Leaving Wood in the VFL would be a Waste - He needs time in the AFL and Fraser can't ruck because of his Dodgy Knee

I only see Fraser as a player who has around 2 years left in him anyway.

The thing about Fraser is that the club values his on and off field leadership and I just can't see him being left out of the side if fit.

Wood performed well towards the end of the season and is a better no.1 ruck than Fraser. But the way I see it being next year is Jolly will get 80%-85% of ruck minutes and Fraser will only have to relieve a bit like Leigh Brown did this year. Fraser is great at ground level and when rucking plays like an extra mid which is really a nice dimension to have and I think would be something more ruckman would have trouble dealing with.

Cam Wood I think would thrive more as the no.1 ruckman more so than a mere backup. I see him spending the year in the VFL (assumed Fraser is fit) but then in 2011 genuinely contesting a place in the side with Fraser once he has filled out some more and become a more consistant rucking force which could leave Fraser on a half forward flank most likely.

 

[absy]

grats?

 

[smiddaz123]

Fraser playing as a midfielder? Half forward? Mick and his sentimentality again imo, it's a nasty habit of his.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

Fraser playing as a midfielder? Half forward? Mick and his sentimentality again imo, it's a nasty habit of his.

Not at all. Fraser is still quality. His versatility around the ground is great and I think he will thrive in this new role. His fitness for someone of his size is quite incredible and will be very hard to match up on because he also has such great ground level skills. He is not just a starting 22 player quality player but a starting 18 quality player.

Assuming he stays injury free which we can only hope, I see him keeping his spot in the side till atleast the end of 2010 with Wood having another developmental year in the 2s.

I'm really surprised how down so many people are down on Josh.

 

[XPISTO]

Jolly may free up Josh: Malthouse

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/86330/default.aspx

"COLLINGWOOD coach Mick Malthouse has given his strongest indication yet that vice-captain Josh Fraser will be given more of a running, roaming role from next season.

With the Magpies adding Sydney Swans star Darren Jolly to their list during the trade period - and with Cameron Wood continuing to develop - Collingwood’s ruck stocks suddenly appear in good shape."

Probably not something that's new to us but definitely good to see Mick acknowledge it. I hope Josh plays a more midfield / forward role next year because athletically he is very unique!

 

[Tranquilli37]

Size wise, hes tough to match up on in the midfield. Speed wise is where hell be beaten. I agree he has relatively good skills and a tank in him for a big man. Forward/ruck will be where hes most damaging.

 

[Invigoration]

I cbf'd going over it all again really, because a lot of us spoke about it when Jolly got traded, but Fraser won't work as a forward IMO.
The only reason he looks good in that freeroaming sort of role is because he has previously being opposed to other ruckmen. Compared to ruckmen Fraser could be considered mobile and agile, this was obviously his advantage over some of the bigger, lumbering types and he'd be able to float off and take uncontested marks.

Start him forward and he instantly gets opposed to someone who's only job to to mind him (=no more uncontested, free roaming possessions) and he has loses any athletic advantage he had over his previously not so athletic opposition ruckmen. Virtually every decent key defender in the league would be quicker, possess more agility and be more mobile than Fraser, no more running off a bloke like Hudson or King, you're now trying to outmark Lake and outrun Fisher. Not even taking into account his complete lack of ability to take a contested mark as a forward..

Mentioning him in the midfield is laughable as well, he isn't Matthew Pavlich guys.

Smiddaz hit the nail on the head, Mick's sentimentality will see Josh lining up on the HFF come round 1, but be prepared to be completely disappointed with his output I say. It is a lot easier to get 20+ disposals playing on Gardiner and King for example then being directed opposed to Fisher or Dawson for the day.

Wood all the way for me. He is a far superior tap ruckman, his slowing developing an ability to get more and more ball (see Adelaide game), he actually has a good set of hands + can take a contested grab (he is a lot harder to match up on as a forward) and he also floats back and fills the hole in defence really well, something Fraser never did with any conviction. Jolly won't play 85% as the number 1 ruck on the G either, spilt it 60/40 with Wood and have both of them spend some time up forward.

 

[Optimax]

Just before the wood love goes overboard (and please understand i know wood is already a better ruck then fraser SO DONT QUOTE MY POST AND REPLY OMG!!!! FRASER IS SOFT AND SHIT WOOD IS AWESOME!!!111)

But Wood has as many lazy dopey moments as fraser has soft, Wood can look a gun around teh ground or just blankly stare at the play happening around him and do absolutely nothing to get involved in it (hawthorn game is a case in point, the 10 minutes he is witched on looks good the other 110 well um better left untouched), first carlton game the same he just isnt always switched on.

Now if wood can eradicate his im 7 foot tall so i can be a lazy and dopey ******* half the time he will be a very good player and undoubtedly our second ruck, but he must be forced to eradicate these issues.

 

[Buckley is my hero]

Just before the wood love goes overboard (and please understand i know wood is already a better ruck then fraser SO DONT QUOTE MY POST AND REPLY OMG!!!! FRASER IS SOFT AND SHIT WOOD IS AWESOME!!!111)

But Wood has as many lazy dopey moments as fraser has soft, Wood can look a gun around teh ground or just blankly stare at the play happening around him and do absolutely nothing to get involved in it (hawthorn game is a case in point, the 10 minutes he is witched on looks good the other 110 well um better left untouched), first carlton game the same he just isnt always switched on.

Now if wood can eradicate his im 7 foot tall so i can be a lazy and dopey ******* half the time he will be a very good player and undoubtedly our second ruck, but he must be forced to eradicate these issues.

Those so called lazy dopey moments you mention, Wood will be immediately rotated off the ground for Jolly. Fraser's knee in the ruck contests is stuffed, therefore imo, we won't be seeing Fraser playing from the center square at all. He will most likely start forward of the center square but will roam between half forward and half back. Fraser's not fast, but he's not too slow either and has the stamina to run all day.

 

[HFF]

2010 will be a super season for Josh IMO.

MM now has the flexibility to use Josh in a variety of roles.

His ability to roam the ground across half-forward and stints in the ruck will give the team another dimension.

Can see a Richo-type role for him IMO.

 

[shawthing09]

Invig's post sums it all up perfectly. Richo has the ability to take a contested mark and I would dare say has a bigger tank and is quicker then Fraser. On top of all that Cloke often does the "Richo" role without as much success but certainly leading high and getting the link kicks. Once we have considered all that it is also important to remember that a lot of the inflated possesion (and hence praise) Richo gets is because opposition teams are not as fussed with him getting 20 possies on the wing and back flank. They would rather that then him getting the ball closer to goal.

Richo is a super player but mainly because he is such a good foward, something Fraser is not.

 

[dswan]

Highly angry than Nathan Brown isnt playing instead of fraser. If hes just going to float around im confident Brown could do the same job better.
We have to realise if we dont play Nathan Brown he will leave and i would be shattered. Wouldnt you be shattered if he left too?

 

[Optimax]

Highly angry than Nathan Brown isnt playing instead of fraser. If hes just going to float around im confident Brown could do the same job better.
We have to realise if we dont play Nathan Brown he will leave and i would be shattered. Wouldnt you be shattered if he left too?

Brown is a full back

His field kicking isnt great by any stretch (he is a long kick), is massively over rated as a forward (hasnt really shown anything special) and well i cant see him being anything other then a big bodied defender

 

[smiddaz123]

Brown's rebound could be better if he lowered his eyes on occasions imo. Seems to have the Cloke disease of "I have the ball, I wonder how far I can kick it".

 

[Optimax]

Brown's rebound could be better if he lowered his eyes on occasions imo. Seems to have the Cloke disease of "I have the ball, I wonder how far I can kick it".

yeah but brown was never kicking to rocca, at least cloke was indoctrinated to kicking long to rocca

 

[shawthing09]

Brown is a full back

His field kicking isnt great by any stretch (he is a long kick), is massively over rated as a forward (hasnt really shown anything special) and well i cant see him being anything other then a big bodied defender

Yep Brown is a defender and defender only really IMO too. A very promising one but Fraser's spot in the team has no impact on N Brown really.

 

[Optimax]

Yep Brown is a defender and defender only really IMO too. A very promising one but Fraser's spot in the team has no impact on N Brown really.

yeah that came across as i thought he was shit, far from it. I think he will be a good solid key defender for us but he will be a defender and fraser wont effect him one bit

 

[Invigoration]

Just before the wood love goes overboard (and please understand i know wood is already a better ruck then fraser SO DONT QUOTE MY POST AND REPLY OMG!!!! FRASER IS SOFT AND SHIT WOOD IS AWESOME!!!111)

But Wood has as many lazy dopey moments as fraser has soft, Wood can look a gun around teh ground or just blankly stare at the play happening around him and do absolutely nothing to get involved in it (hawthorn game is a case in point, the 10 minutes he is witched on looks good the other 110 well um better left untouched), first carlton game the same he just isnt always switched on.

Now if wood can eradicate his im 7 foot tall so i can be a lazy and dopey ******* half the time he will be a very good player and undoubtedly our second ruck, but he must be forced to eradicate these issues.

Yeah don't get me wrong, Wood has a shit load to learn and he pisses me off a lot as well, but he has a way bigger scope for improvement and the only way he is going to nut out some of those problems he has is by spending more time at the top. I was one of his biggest critics coming into this year but his form in the second half shows me if we are really serious about finally having a formidable ruck duo, then we need to persevere with Wood who began to show the signs he is capable of being a top tier ruckman down the track.
Wood can only continue to get better, I fear it is all down hill for Fraser from here.

 

[King Woodie]

Yeah don't get me wrong, Wood has a shit load to learn and he pisses me off a lot as well, but he has a way bigger scope for improvement and the only way he is going to nut out some of those problems he has is by spending more time at the top. I was one of his biggest critics coming into this year but his form in the second half shows me if we are really serious about finally having a formidable ruck duo, then we need to persevere with Wood who began to show the signs he is capable of being a top tier ruckman down the track.
Wood can only continue to get better, I fear it is all down hill for Fraser from here.

This statement is absolutely true, however you have still missed the point.

We are not about developing players next year or the year after. Don't get me wrong, we have been in that situation (and recently, as well) but not next year. Next year we will be playing the players that will give us the best shot at winning the 2010 Grand Final.

We can not afford to play Wood just to let him develop. We must play Fraser in the backup role because he gives us the best chance of winning.

 

[King Woodie]

Plus, which is likely to be better for Wood's development? Being able to play 20% game time in the ruck and the remainder on the pine, or being asked to shoulder 60% in the reserves, plus also being asked to fill and learn about roles forward and get his confidence up.

It is not like Wood would stop developing in the twos. His forward work would improve at a much faster rate in the twos.

 

[rose jam]

I think the whole Jolly decision just says - go for the flag.

 

[Optimax]

I think the whole Jolly decision just says - go for the flag.

the not losing reid, brown etc does mean dont sell the future for a chance at immediate gain though

 

[BuckleysBrigade]

the not losing reid, brown etc does mean dont sell the future for a chance at immediate gain though

Agreed. For once I really think that the guys have really nailed it in the trade week, though either of the other two would've been great! (IMO it's pretty clear we could never get all three; top 3 forward, top 3 ruckman and top 20 (?) mid would be just about unheard of!)

Split decision amongst the punters on 'going for flag' and 'not sacrificing future' =

 

[Invigoration]

This statement is absolutely true, however you have still missed the point.

We are not about developing players next year or the year after. Don't get me wrong, we have been in that situation (and recently, as well) but not next year. Next year we will be playing the players that will give us the best shot at winning the 2010 Grand Final.

We can not afford to play Wood just to let him develop. We must play Fraser in the backup role because he gives us the best chance of winning.

Wood is already ahead of Fraser already though in my opinion, and if he isn't, he definitely would be come finals this year after a whole year in the seniors.