Judd Trade Hindsight

[trueblue_91]

I think Judd's season has been underrated by alot of people, you only have to look at the Carlton v Melbourne game to see what he brings to this team.

Not only that game but his last quater effort against collingwood and west coast helped us pick up 4 points in both games. People say he has been ordinary this year but he is averaging 20+ touches a game and a lot of contested ball.

 

[Il Naso De Gastev]

Yes, another fool who looks at the stats sheet, sees Judd not getting 30+ possies each week and thinks he is not having an impact.

Interesting.

 

[thylacine60]

yeah i cant remember a time when the AFL tried to make an example of an AFL side by bringing them to their knees...

Great point beautifully put.

 

[XXX KINGS]

dont Worry champ , Carlton and Pratt can buy anyone . Time to start closing in on J.Brown

Too true

 

[The Coach]

But think about it - Judd is 24 and this year Carlton are not going to play in the grand final and whilst have great stock of young players probably wont play in a grand final for another 5 years or more

I said you blokes have some really great young kids and adding more would have seen you to a grand final in 5 years.

Having Chris Judd is going to lengthen the time it takes us to get our next premiership lol - You go straight into the book. Not sure whether to label you a Troll or a Sour Grape?

ps We will be winning a premiership well before WCE

 

[thylacine60]

Looks like someone left the Clipart Land back gate open again.

 

[The Coach]

Looks like someone left the Clipart Land back gate open again.

He is an Eagle - I had to draw him a picture!

 

[THE BISHOP]

dont Worry champ , Carlton and Pratt can buy anyone . Time to start closing in on J.Brown

You would risk coping more penalties from the AFL and ending up where we have been the last few years?

Judd $1.2mill
Fev $800k
Brown $1mill??

Doesnt add up. Forget about keeping Marc Murphy while your at it.

 

[Top4_Tiger]

If St Kilda traded away 2 of their top draft picks for a genuine superstar like Chris Judd (ignore the irony ) then would they be worse off right now with a 29yo Judd leading the team?

Carlton have chosen 6 gaurunteed superstar years of Chris Judd over the combined 25 potential unknown years of service from Masten and Kennedy. It is a big decision but there is one key indicator to judge if they won out of the deal:

The trade could only be a failure if they fail to win a flag with Chris Judd.

I like the look of them around 2010 or 2012 (obviously 2011 has already been shotgunned by Richmond ) as Judd and an aging Fevola should both be surrounded by a core of youngsters who aren't much worse than any other team's youngsters right now. If Fevola can play in their next premiership then they won't miss Kennedy.

Carlton can afford to cough up a couple of kids.

They can't afford to cough up that one player who can drag the team over the line if they make it to the last day in September.

Masten?

Well, he's no Judd.

 

[Gouldy]

Well only really time will tell but I think Carlton has blown this trade.

He was going home so we were up the creek anyway we could only hope that a club stepped forward with players and or draft picks - enter Carlton.

But think about it - Judd is 24 and this year Carlton are not going to play in the grand final and whilst have great stock of young players probably wont play in a grand final for another 5 years or more by then Judd may well be at an end, especially in the midfield. Judd may not even poll that well in a Brownlow again as Carlton arent winning enough games.

Meanwhile, Kennedy has shown he is going to be a star for us if he keeps going the way he is going. Also from the Judd trade we got Masten who is showing great composure in the midfield for a first year player.

Had Carlton let Judd go and kept Kennedy, they would also probably got Masten or Palmer.

What I am saying is that Carlton would have been better placed in the 5 or more years time when they come to play in a grand final to have Kennedy and Masten/Palmer along with the rest of the young crop of players.

Time will tell.

one word.... nob.

 

[thylacine60]

one word.... nob.

I'd say you've psychologically obliterated the poor bastard with that effort.

 

[efcboy]

whilst judd is fit then there is no issue - he is a gun player and leader which will obviously benefit carlton as all the blues fans have mentioned in the various ways.

the only risk was whether his body would stand up etc. given carlton gave up 3 promising players in kennedy, pick 3 (masten), pick 20 (notte) and with judd taking up a fair portion of salary cap if he went down the club would be in trouble.

all the eggs are in the judd basket and it may well pay off but if his groins went pear shaped then the club would be in an awkward position.

 

[one eyed bluey]

Judd trade was simple.
He wanted to leave a drug infested rabble of a club.
He wanted to come back to Melbourne
He wanted to go to a club with the most promising list.
We had the picks and the big Dick Pratt
We had the mula $$ and budabing we have judd.

What Judd provides:
Leadership
Unbelievable player

What we lost:
a 'promising youngster' in kennedy.
pick 3 and 20 in which u selected duds anyway.

And we didnt need Judd for marketing and memberships.
As stated, no other club would have had the membership tally we've had over the last 6 years in the state our club was in. (mayb pies,bombers).

The future is bright for us, and the most arrogant and loud supporters are COMING BACK!

On a side note, who else is enjoying the bumbers getting smashed?
I for one am loving it

 

[thylacine60]

Judd trade was simple.
He wanted to leave a drug infested rabble of a club.
He wanted to come back to Melbourne
He wanted to go to a club with the most promising list.
We had the picks and the big Dick Pratt
We had the mula $$ and budabing we have judd.

What Judd provides:
Leadership
Unbelievable player

What we lost:
a 'promising youngster' in kennedy.
pick 3 and 20 in which u selected duds anyway.

And we didnt need Judd for marketing and memberships.
As stated, no other club would have had the membership tally we've had over the last 6 years in the state our club was in. (mayb pies,bombers).

The future is bright for us, and the most arrogant and loud supporters are COMING BACK!

On a side note, who else is enjoying the bumbers getting smashed?
I for one am loving it

Honestly, I feel dreadful about it. No really.

 

[Lynch takes a mark]

These threads never go well

 

[wce_all_da_way]

These threads never go well

Pretty much. Way too early to call and Judd was perfect for Carlton.

And to the posts on Masten, please actually watch him play instead of living off the stats sheet.

 

[Dramoth]

I honestly think that the Judd deal was win-win.

What Carlton Gained:

1. Carlton needed somebody of Judd's calibre to gain members/ help marketing at the Blues after a horror decade.

2. Judd can help teach the young talent at the Blues what it takes to be a succesful club

3. Adds an experienced/ clever head to the midfield

4. By judd playing it takes the pressure off stevens and murphy.

5. Leadership

What West Coast Gained:

Youth and Quality:

1. Josh Kennedy - some carlton fans rate him and some don't - but i can honestly say that i have never seen a more exciting CHF prospect at West Coast. We have been blessed with some awesome defenders and midfielders at our club - but not forwards (sorry Suma)

2. Chris Masten - I can't believe some people on this thread have said they don't rate him and that we f*ed up on getting him pick #3. He has been fantastic in a struggling side this year - not afraid to get his hands dirty, great skills and will only get better with a few pre-seasons. People saying that they think he isn't worth rating are as stupd as WCE fans who say that Judd isn't a sensational footballer.

3. Tony Notte - Beanpole - yep, but worth a gamble. Plays Swans Districts here in the WAFL. He has hands like glue - look forward to him bulking up. Time will tell on this one.

At the end of the day,

- West Coast needed to inject youth (we have quality seniors in Cox, Glass and Kerr who can attract the marketing); and
- Carlton needed the big name of Judd - he is awesome for your youngsters and is a quality marketing tool - he is an experienced player, well-spoken and will be fantastic for your footy club for the remainder of his career.

Peace out

Mate, I agree with you... Carlton got an injection of quality leadership from getting Judd.

A lot of people actually rated Josh and would love to see him come back to the club at some point in his career because we could see the potential in him as a CHF. I think that he is quite probably about 2 years away from really starting to dominate as a CHF.

Masten I have always rated ever since I read about him being the captain for his club, the WA u/19's and some other youth competition. I think that in 5-6 years if you can keep hold of him and keep him on the straight and narrow, then he will be a good member of your leadership group at the weagles.

Honestly, I think that both clubs had a good win out of the trade agreement.

 

[len_jet]

You would risk coping more penalties from the AFL and ending up where we have been the last few years?

Judd $1.2mill
Fev $800k
Brown $1mill??

Doesnt add up. Forget about keeping Marc Murphy while your at it.

It does, you just need to look at it from Swann and Icke's point of view...
1. A lot of Judds salary is paid for by the Marketing Budget...
2. Fev will have a heavily back ended contract which will have built in escape clauses for him mucking up. The reason for the back ended contract will be because he qualifies for the veterans list in his third year...
3. Brown to share some of the marketing budget with Judd and will become our other marquee player.

So for 2009...
Judd: say $900k ($300k under marketing)
Fev: $300k (assuming he gets say $600k a year over 3 years we can defer about a $1m to the third year because only $500k will count under the salary cap)
Brown: say $900k ($300k under marketing, depending on the marketing budget)

 

[Cranium]

Our development of players was absolute rubbish before Ratts took over. I guess that Judd helps out enormously in this area....so 60% of his salary is a no brainer in terms of development coaching....the guy is a gun and a massive boost to this club.

 

[Xsess]

Judd's a step in the right direction but winning a flag is not as simple as some seem to think. It looks like you have some good tools in the middle - but will it be enough? Your defense is still iffy and your very much Fev orientated up front. He's also 28. Interestingly you appear to have a deficiency at CHF. West Coasts midfield circa 2005/06 was as good as any I've ever seen yet we still only scraped a flag by 1 point mainly on account of the deficiency in our forward 50 (we had a very solid but not outstanding defense).

 

[Salaryman]

Pretty much. Way too early to call and Judd was perfect for Carlton.

And to the posts on Masten, please actually watch him play instead of living off the stats sheet.

Precisely, while Judd was good for our club, you can't honestly say that Masten and Notte are no good. Masten will be a little ripper and if Notte has a beautiful set of hands......if he gets on the protein shakes he can make it.

 

[bowlrig]

West Coast needed to inject youth (we have quality seniors in Cox, Glass and Kerr who can attract the marketing-)

Just need to be careful on how you construct your sentences. Could read things into that.

 

[Kaladin Stormblessed]

Like many others have said already, there a lot of intangibles with Judd coming to Carlton. You can't just simply look a the player vs players trade and then say one team won or lost. You have to account for those intangibles.

Judd gave a club on its knees some hope. He gave our youngsters some leadership. He brought a whole new dimension in preparation and leading by example, something we haven't had for ages. He makes the youngster on the field walk taller. He provides them with confidence. Do you think Masten and Kennedy would've been able to do that?

You can keep adding talented players to your list and eventually they will come good but I don't think talent alone will be able to get you a premiership (see St Kilda). You need good leaders; you need players who have been there, done that; you need someone who, when the team is almost down and out, other players look up to and get self-belief from. Judd provides that - Kennedy and Masten don't.

If anyone still doubts that, they need only ask themselves:

(i) Would we have come back and won games against West Coast and Freo after being heavily challenged? I think in any other year we would've been overrun by 5 goals. That's the self-belief I am talking about.

(ii) Would Murphy et al. have been able to develop as well as they are if Judd wasn't there?

(iii) Would other players like Fev, Stevo etc be having as good a season as they if Judd wasn't there? (and I am not talking about only in terms of possession and goals).

(iv) Would we have 40,000+ members if Judd wasn't there?

(v) Would we be on our highest position on the ladder we have been since 2002 after Round 9 if Judd wasn't there?

To me, its a no-contest. If a player like Judd wants to come, you do whatever is reasonably necessary to get him.

 

[Crow-mo]

Well only really time will tell but I think Carlton has blown this trade.

He was going home so we were up the creek anyway we could only hope that a club stepped forward with players and or draft picks - enter Carlton.

But think about it - Judd is 24 and this year Carlton are not going to play in the grand final and whilst have great stock of young players probably wont play in a grand final for another 5 years or more by then Judd may well be at an end, especially in the midfield. Judd may not even poll that well in a Brownlow again as Carlton arent winning enough games.

Meanwhile, Kennedy has shown he is going to be a star for us if he keeps going the way he is going. Also from the Judd trade we got Masten who is showing great composure in the midfield for a first year player.

Had Carlton let Judd go and kept Kennedy, they would also probably got Masten or Palmer.

What I am saying is that Carlton would have been better placed in the 5 or more years time when they come to play in a grand final to have Kennedy and Masten/Palmer along with the rest of the young crop of players.

Time will tell.

Really? you think your team got the better end of a trade?

fancy that, no one ever says that!

 

[thylacine60]

Judd's a step in the right direction but winning a flag is not as simple as some seem to think.

Appreciate your comments but you'll understand if we are stifling laughter when another clubs supporter feels it necessary to give The Carlton Football Club advice on how to win flags.