Just saw Episode 2

[Dan26]

Originally posted by dogboy23
Dan do you think Boba might kill Mace?

I hope so. Obviously Mace - along with all the Jedi, bar Yoda an Obi-Wan - will die. It would be fitting if Boba killed Mace to avenge his father's death.

I don't know how credible it is, however, having a 13 year old kill a Jedi master. Mace isn't any Jedi either. He's the second most powerful, behind Yoda. I don't know what George will do. I'm really curious as to how he is going to kill off 10,000 Jedi.

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by mongrelpunt

On a lighter note, who else laughed at the end when Anakin and Padme got married, and C3PO and R2D2 were both standing there, and C3PO pats R2D2 on the head? Not that there's anything wrong with that........

It was basically the same ending as The Empire Strikes Back.

In Empire. Luke and Leia are on the left of screen looking away from the camera, and Threepio and Artoo are on the right. It mirrors the ending to Episode V.

 

[clucas91]

Dan,

Do you think that George Lucas created this whole Jango/Boba Fett back-story mainly because Boba Fett has such a huge cult following?

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by Same Old's
Is it just me or does Palpatine/Emporor/Sidious always seem to have some of the best lines in OT and PT. Here are some of my favourites.

"So be it, Jedi"

"Strike me down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards the darkside will be complete"

"With each passing moment, you make yourself more my servant."

"I will make it legal"

"Wipe them out, all of them"

"Good, Good! Now..fulfill your destiny and take your father's place at my side!"

"In time, you will call me MASTER..."

Palpatine is just so evil.

And the best one of all:

"You, like your father, are now... MINE"

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by clucas91
Dan,

Do you think that George Lucas created this whole Jango/Boba Fett back-story mainly because Boba Fett has such a huge cult following?

Yeah I do. Boba was never a major character, and his cult following really spawned his appearance in Clones. Having said that, Boba doesn't have a major role in Episode II, either (nor should he.) He's only in it for a few scenes. He was never intended to be a major character.

 

[M29]

Just saw it. Carried on the love crap abit, I mean why didn't he just bonk her and get it over with. And Dan, is C3P0 the first ever gay robot?

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by M29
And Dan, is C3P0 the first ever gay robot?

Apparently.

 

[Rolls Eyes]

Originally posted by Dan26
I don't know how credible it is

 

[Longboysfan]

Originally posted by Dan26


Maybe technology? The interesting thing is, that Obi-Wan says in Return of the Jedi that Darth Vader is more machine than man, so Anakin's body is going to have to get awfully chopped up in the next chapter.

They covered that in one of the books.

Vader was a mess. The device on his chest helps him breath.
The bubble like enclosure he is seen in his quarters in is a healing tank of sorts and a transmission enhancer to the Emperor.
Jedi can self heal.

You saw what had happened to his head when Luke took the mask off. Well the rest of him was equally messed up.

My only question is who did that to him. He's much better than Obi Wan with a light saber.

 

[jod23]

Thanks for clearing up the Jango Boba clone thing for me Dan, now that you mention i do remember them talking about an unaltered clone.

I think it would be pretty gay if a child (Boba) kills one of the most powerful Jedi the universe has ever seen. He better have a good death....I think he could battle Darth Tyranus, he had the confrontation with him in Episode 2 when he had his lightsabre to Jango's neck....then when Tyranus stopped the droids to say no more Jedi will be slaughtered if you stand down, he was conversing with Mace, maybe there is a backstory between the two?

 

[Cyclops]

Well I enjoyed this film for its tremendous special effects sequences. The huge battle scene must have cost a bucket-so many little guys on the move!

Obviously the film had interest in a join-the-dots way, seeing where all the characters in IV, V and VI came from, the evolutioon of the stormtrooper look, early star destroyers etc.

The acting was woefully bad. They must have used a strong personality bleach to get Ewan McGregor so wooden and blank. The most expressive face in the film was Yoda's computer generated one. Natalie Portman is a disgrace to acting. Even in the "romance" scenes I keep expecting her to ask "Would you like fries with that?".

The Annakin character is supposed to be dumb and forceful, so the lame hack they're using gets away with it. Also there's plenty of mediocrity to camoflage his weaknesses.

The Yoda/Dooku duel had me in absolute stitches. Yoda's "high noon" stance and kung-fu getures will live in comedy for a long time.

I really enjoyed it for what it was, and I'll give episode III a chance.

 

[Carlos]

Originally posted by Longboysfan


They covered that in one of the books.

Vader was a mess. The device on his chest helps him breath.
The bubble like enclosure he is seen in his quarters in is a healing tank of sorts and a transmission enhancer to the Emperor.
Jedi can self heal.

You saw what had happened to his head when Luke took the mask off. Well the rest of him was equally messed up.

My only question is who did that to him. He's much better than Obi Wan with a light saber.

This is from the official starwars website:

"...Skywalker was seduced by the dark side of the Force. Fueled by rage and discontent with the pace of Obi-Wan's training, Anakin challenged his master to a duel. Despite newfound power bestowed by the dark side of the Force, which added to his already formidable abilities, Anakin was grievously wounded in the fight. His burning anger kept him alive, and he was forever scarred not only by his wounds but also by betrayal. He abandoned his former identity. When metal coupled with flesh in the form of cyborg implants and enhancements required to sustain him, Skywalker's transformation was complete. He was no longer Anakin. He was Darth Vader."

And in regards to the suit etc:
"Vader's grim black attire was a life-support system, his labored mechanical breathing the sound of a walking iron lung. Critically injured in a lightsaber battle with Obi-Wan Kenobi years ago, Vader became "more machine than man," kept alive only by the devices built into his suit. The fearsome visage of his breath mask reflects the dark identity that he assumed after his fall from the light side of the force.

Vader could only remove his mask in a special hyperbaric chamber, such as the one on board his Star Destroyer Executor. Allowing no one to assist him, Vader relied on mechanical devices to remove and replace his helmet and metal breath screen."

 

[Satay Mat]

I have seen all the Star Wars films.

I thought it was absolute crap. It was everything I do not like about modern American films.

Some one mentioned that the factory scene was like a play station game.....I wonder why they would do that ??

You could also see a game in the scene where they are flying through the asteroids.....It was clear that this is a film made for mechandising....nothing else.

I kept feeling that the film was pitched to 8 yr olds....and I think this is true. 8 Yr Olds buy McDonalds, action figures, posters, video games....there was nothing in the movie that you would not grasp when you are 8.

grose commercialism at its worst.

The acting was pathetic.....most of them could have used an autocue and done a better job....notable examples....when the "refugees" leave from the train, the romantic scenes which were contrived and 2nd rates.

The film goes for around 2 hours.....and what actually happens....

What plot is there ??? It has about 30 minutes of actual plot expanded to 2 hours by (very good) special effects.

Unless you are obsessed with the series, most of the subtelties would have been lost on you.


Well..that's my 2 cents


Satay Mat

 

[Dan26]

Satay, if you think the film doesn't have a plot, then you did not watch it properly. The plot is extremely complicated, and takes at least two viewings to take it all in.

Also, the film is NOT made for merchandising. They never have been. When the original film came out, the toys were only released after the movie was successful (about 6 months after). In a fictional galaxy, of thousands of planets, thousands of species and thousands of spaceships, it's common-sense to show them in the background, and during scenes. What do you want them to do? Have no aliens, or no ships flying about? Working in retail I can also GUARANTEE that the toys of Episode II are limited. They do not have action figures and ship designs for EVERY thing that you see in the movie.

The story always comes first in Star Wars, but with Lucas's vivd imagination, there are many things he likes to add, first for whimsy, and secondly for his psychological eccentricities. In the special editon re-release of Star Wars, for instance, he added Dewbacks on Tatooine. He wanted to add these ceatures to the environment to give a random, real world feel to everything. The fact you could buy them in shops is beside the point. It's a huge galaxy of thousands of creatures. We NEED to be shown the variety to appreciate the diversity of the galaxy that we are being shown. The background effects, and creatures add to the scenery and the "feel" that you are in another place, another time. What are you being critical of the asteroid scene for? And the factory scene? These were exciting set-pieces. Sure, you could have dispensed with them, but then the movie would lose two action set pieces. They are not essential to the film, from a story point of view, but that's also the case in any movie with an action set-piece. They are good for the film. It's like adding fries to a hamburger. It makes a good meal better. Would you have preferred two hours of politics in the senate instead?

If you wanted to show the movie to an 8 year old, they wouldn't have a clue what was going on. They'd love the lightsabre fights, and the chases, but they wouldn't understand the story, and the political subterfuge that the entire war was based on. The orginal Star Wars movie was good guys vs bad guys. This one is far more complex. We don't even know who the bad guys are, Satay!! Not yet, anyway.

 

[roobear]

Satay,
each to his own mate, and I can understand where you're coming from. But I must say I feel sorry for you, if you were looking for something more than you got. Because I thought it was bloody fantastic entertainment, and I can't wait to see it again!

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

how good is a movie and how do you gauge it?
pretty simple really.my 11yr old daughter protested all day about going to see ep.2.
she thought ep.1 was boring.unfourtantly for her she had no choice in the matter
thru the movie i glanced at her. her eyes wide open and totally into the movie not even a hint of a whinge on why she had to see the movie.

my own point of view and im not a huge fan of star wars ep2 killed ep1.
what lucas has done and to his credit he has made ep.3 possibly the most anticiapted movie to be released in movie history!

for a mild star wars fan i can.t wait.

cheers!

 

[Satay Mat]

Dan,

clearly we are coming from different viewpoints, and I am perhaps more cynical than you.

Let's look at the 2 scenes I mentioned. You seem to suggest that they make this film....then sit back, watch it and then work out how they can make a PS game out of a scene. To me it was obviously the reverse in those scenes.....let's think of a game and then build a scene around it....same in ep 1 with those pod racing scenes. Things like that just make me cringe....just like product placements. The only reason they are there is to make someone buy a game....nothing more.

I agree with you regarding merchandising for the original Star Wars (ep 4)....but they made so much money from it that it is now driving the film itself. Why do you think you got that incredibly stupid creature in ep 1....who made a brief re-appearance in ep 2 (Jar-Jar ???....he made that stupid motion in the senate this time). He was created for merchandising....a character around which to sell happy meals.....what else does that character add to the film.....if you took it out....or replaced it with a human-oid what impact would that have on the film itself.....none.....but it would have an impact on the merchanising sales.

I have nothing against merchandising per se.....just when the integrity of a film is obviously reduced through having merchnidsing as the prime objective rather than quality. Its called selling out.

Let's look at the plot......we find out:

1. the chief Jedi dude is corrupt.
2. they have a clone army
3. the two leading characters fall in love

What else happens ??? The rest, it seems to me, is imply filling in tiny pieces of some puzzle....which, unless you really know the entire subtelties of the whole thing are lost. Or it is action scenes....which add something but no more than say your average Jean Claude Van Dam film.

The film itself does not stand on its own feet. If you watch it in isolation it is no better than most of the B-Grade sci-fi movies which have come out recently.

I think the first 3 films were OK....and each had integrity....you could watch "The Empire Strikes Back" without ever having seen Star Wars and still think it was a good film.....that is not the case with this one I think.....you like it I feel because it fills in some many of the pieces for you, but on its own it does not do much.

If you want good sci-fi and how to do a proper sequel then I suggest 2001/2010. A bit old now but at least they have cinema integrity.

as someone else said....each to their own.


Satay Mat

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by Satay Mat
Let's look at the 2 scenes I mentioned. You seem to suggest that they make this film....then sit back, watch it and then work out how they can make a PS game out of a scene. To me it was obviously the reverse in those scenes.....let's think of a game and then build a scene around it....same in ep 1 with those pod racing scenes.

Apparently, Lucas always wanted to do a big race scene in one of the movies, but cost, and technology prevented him from doing so 20 years ago. Of all the scenes in Episode one, I would have thought that the pod race was immune from criticism. I would've thought it made sense to have an action set piece where Anakin shows his force-guided flying techniques to set himself free. Visually the race was stunning. Episode I may have had some problems, but I don't think the pod race was one of them.

I doubt very much whether Lucas cares about computer games, and builds scenes around them. You may as well be critical of EVERY action scene, going by that logic. It's Star Wars and those kind of scenes are obviously going to be in it.

Originally posted by Satay Mat
Let's look at the plot......we find out:

1. the chief Jedi dude is corrupt.
2. they have a clone army
3. the two leading characters fall in love

What else happens ??? The rest, it seems to me, is imply filling in tiny pieces of some puzzle....which, unless you really know the entire subtelties of the whole thing are lost.

I could say that about any film, Satay. I could look at Pulp Fictoon and say, "Nothing happens in the plot. Two gangsters kill a guy, and then one of them takes is boss' wife on a date. Then they blow off some guys head in a car. The end"

The key plot points you mentioned are all very important, and canot be explained in two minutes of film time. The whole point is showing how a democracy turns into a dictatorship. Palpatine is playing both sides and creating a war to gain himself more power.

The point is for this democracy to be turned into a dictatorship, those that protect the sanctity of the government and the ideals that keep it free… MUST BE ELIMINATED. That is the Jedi. If the Emperor (Darth Sidious/Palpatine) reveals himself, his power ebbs. Hidden, behind the scenes, you control and push both sides of the chess match. If you control both sides long enough, you win. This is brilliant TAKE OVER THE UNIVERSE STRATEGY!

The lessons being taught here are everybit as important and relevant today in the world we are currently in. One can not empower a government or an individual to have limited controls over the freedoms we cherish, unlimited powers over our military and absolute power over a domestic police force to go hunting for traitors in our midst. No matter how nice the leader at the time may be, they can be taken out. They can be destroyed and the one that steps in could be the nightmare.

We also find out why Jar Jar - the charcter you despise - is in the series. Jar Jar is weak minded, and is EXPLOITED by Palpatine, into giving him emergency powers, effectively giving Palpatine the powers of an Emperor. Jar Jar is therefore responsible, for the demise of the Republic. He becomes a tragic character. Palpatine needed someone gullible to pass the motion, and Jar Jar is a gullible as you get. Jar Jar is a pawn in creating one of the great tragedies.

The love story needed time to be told. It couldn't be told in 10 minutes. It needed time. I didn't have a problem with it. Sure, it was cliche, but so what? Any time you get on your knee and propose it is cliche. if you give flowers to your wife, that is cliche. Celebrating your anniversary is cliche. Love is cliche. You've got to rememebr this is Star Wars, and I thought the romace was well done. It only need to be good enough for the audience to buy it, and I bought it. I had a harder time believing she was in love with him, but I was convinced HE was in love with her. I love knowing that their love is going to end in tragedy, knowing that I have the rest of the saga to look forward to when I watch them back to back.

Originally posted by Satay Mat
The film itself does not stand on its own feet. If you watch it in isolation it is no better than most of the B-Grade sci-fi movies which have come out recently.

I think the first 3 films were OK....and each had integrity....you could watch "The Empire Strikes Back" without ever having seen Star Wars and still think it was a good film.....that is not the case with this one I think.....you like it I feel because it fills in some many of the pieces for you, but on its own it does not do much.

Empire is my favourite film of all time, but I disagree that it stands on it's own. I believe you need to have watched the first one to truly understand it. It presumed you already know who the charatcers are. By the way, I loved 2001 and 2010, but they weren't charcter driven, they were "idea" driven.

Certainly, it helps to have seen Episode I before Episode II, but I still think Clones works well. You know why? Because this movie is a wild goose chase. Obi-Wan is effectively playing James Bond. Meanwhile is apprentice is falling in love, which is forbidden, and an unkknown source is out to create a war.

I think, as far as plot goes, that is as dense as it gets, Satay. The music was unbelievably good. When Anakin hugs Padme, and heads off on his speeder to find his mother, with the "Force" theme in full orchestra, it send tingles down my spine. I do see your point, that you may need to understand the subtleties of the saga to appreciate the film as much as I do, but those subtleties are quite self explanatory if you pay attention to the details, and appreciate where this will lead to with Epsiode III. In my opinion, anyway.

There are some out there (Satay ) that were disappointed or hated this film, but you know what? It must suck to be you, because I loved ATTACK OF THE CLONES and I can't wait to see it many more times.

Cheers.

 

[Satay Mat]

It does suck being me !

a) "I have the brain the size of a planet" and yet spend a lot of my time talking to you.....sledgehammer, walnut, crack....

b) Short of talking to myself it is so hard to have a decent conversation (except Brain of Morbius of course )

Of course, if I were you, then movies aimed at 8 year olds and WWF would keep me going for ages

life is lonely.



Satay "a beautiful mind" Mat

 

[jod23]

I feel sorry for you Satay Mat...not getting anjoyment out of a fantastic film like Episode II is just well......wrong. I know its your opinion but if you didnt think Episode II was entertaining, i cant possibly imagine which movies you do think are entertaining?

 

[Satay Mat]

Indeed it is all a matter of taste...

Recent films Satay Mat would rate as being worth watching.....

The Red Violin (my favourite of recent times)
The Dish
Schindlers List
Saving Private Ryan
Lord of The Rings

A few oldies

The World According to Garp
The Deer Hunter (my all time favourite)
2001 / 2010
Casablanca (sp ?)

I would put Ep II on a par with Shrek, Monsters Inc, Harry Potter


Satay Mat

 

[Dan26]

The only difference Satay, is that Shrek, Harry Potter and Monsters Inc are G (not PG) and don't have politics, and taxation disputes covered in their opening crawls. There is a LOT more to Star Wars than jazzy spaceships and lightsabre fights.

 

[Dan26]

Jut heard word that Natalie Portman has signed on to film extra scenes for RETURN OF THE JEDI, that will be released in an Ultimate Edition on DVD in 2005.

This is HUGE news, because she is supposed to die in Episode III. Flashback scene perhaps?

 

[Nic]

I thought Episode I was junk. I finally saw Episode II and it was better than Episode I. That's all I'll say for it. Unless the next movie is an absolute ripper then I'm going to pretend the first three movies don't exist and stick with Episodes IV, V and VI.

 

[Same Old's]

Originally posted by Dan26
Jut heard word that Natalie Portman has signed on to film extra scenes for RETURN OF THE JEDI, that will be released in an Ultimate Edition on DVD in 2005.

This is HUGE news, because she is supposed to die in Episode III. Flashback scene perhaps?

I could do with seeing more of Natalie!