Key positions for a new future??

[Quicky]

There was an article by Gary Lyon published in the Herald Sun the other day that i found really interesting. It was a take on key position forwards and how they seem to be evolving into the more mobile tall midfield types, as opposed to the traditional tall, strong, contested marking forwards. You can see the article here:

Moving targets

The power forward is being replaced by hard-running 185-190-centimetre types, who are ideally suited to capitalise on the uncontested nature of the modern game. Long kicks to a contest are so rare in today's football that we tend to highlight and reminisce about them in much the same way we do when a player attempts to kick the almost-extinct torpedo punt.

The problem for the big-bodied, key-position forwards of the future is that if they don't have the physical capability or, more importantly, the discipline and commitment to build an endurance base to match the best midfielders in the competition, they are going to struggle to remain relevant in the game.

.............


Nick Riewoldt is the perfect prototype of the modern forward. At 193 centimetres, he is close to the best all-round athlete in the game. Matthew Pavlich, at 192 centimetres, and Adam Goodes, who has returned from the midfield to assume the forward role this year, at 193, are in the same ballpark. None of them are "stand and kick it to me" forwards. They are a beautiful study in constant motion and, as a result, they regularly tear games to shreds.

The new generation of key forwards is slightly shorter, but all subscribe to the same philosophy. Forever on the move, whether working laterally across the ground or pushing up aggressively to provide an option for the ball coming out of defence. "Multi-leading" is a staple of their game and it requires superb endurance and a mindset that has them wanting to work their opposition into the ground.

They are forever dangerous, always hunting the ball and, by extension, creating space for their fellow forwards to work into.

Moving targets

It got me thinking. Has Hine and our football department seen the writing on the wall and began recruiting for this eventuality??

It is an oft heard complaint in here that we have recruited too many third tall, half forward flank types and not enough 'true' KPP's in recent drafts.

But the question is, what if the game is moving away from this type of player??

More mobile players are being used as they are better placed to work within and take advantage of the zone. We are going to need players that can play within this system - whether forward or back.

If you look at some of our recruits over the last few years you will find names like:

Tyson Goldsack - 193cm
Ben Reid - 195cm
John Anthony - 192cm
Nick Maxwell - 193cm
Scott Reed - 192cm
Tom Young - 188cm
Jarred Blight - 189cm
Simon Buckley - 190cm
Brent Macaffer - 187cm

We have NSW scholarship players Hartley (190cm) and Perry (190cm) ready to come onto the list. All are players in the tall mobile catergory.

Have we placed ourselves to take advantage of this change in the game??

Or does Hine just have an unhealthy man crush on tall flankers??

What are your thoughts??

 

[mdc]

I'm not really seeing it. Lyon says "185-190", and then names a bunch of 6"4 guys.

Conversely, Carey was 192, Lockett was 191, Dunstall and Yablett Sr sub-190.

It's not that the player sizes are changing, it's just that the defensive gameplans are now far too good for guys to just stand in the goal-square and snag marks. I mean, any of the three mentioned could easily just stay home in the goalsquare, but it'd be a waste.

As an aside, Maxwell and Macaffer are taking the piss with those listed heights.

 

[sr36]

I actually think that Lyon has it wrong. To me this is the classic Lockett versus Dunstall debate. zoning is making forward 50s very congested. A shorter full froward who relies upon leading, eg Dunstall, would be much less damaging in the modern game , as there is just no space to lead into. Full forwards leading into space, within goal scoring range and being hit on the chest is a dwindling sight. this was particularly evident in Lloyd's last few years, where it was almost inconceivable that this guy had been such a dominant full forward. Whereas those who can take contested marks or compete affectively in the air, despite being outnumbered are worth their weight in gold. I'd prefer Lockett over Dunstall more than ever in the modern game. Admittedly Lockett would have to be much fitter and run harder than he used to as the onus is also upon defensive pressure and continuos leading to open up space. but we've already seen this shift towards tall forwards having midfield like endurance. Guys like Brown, Riewoldt, Cloke, Pavlich and Franklin all come near the front in their clubs 3km time trials. The great news is so does Dawes.

 

[shawthing09]

Yeh I reckon Lyon is misdirected more then out right wrong I feel. As is mentioned the full fowards of years gone by aren't much bigger and MDC has mentioned it's more of an issue of teams being better defensively.

Not to long ago North Melbourne where able to clear the whole 50 to kick to Carey one on one who was good enough at it for that to be effective, teams aren't going to allow fowards that amount of space to work with anymore. This means a couple of things 1) That fowards need to work harder for their own space and 2) That fowards need to be fitter to push back up the ground as part of the defensive structures.

The fitness of all players is far more important in the modern game so naturally that includes fowards. Riewoldt's work ethic is part of why he is such a good player but your kidding yourself if you don't think he'd still be pretty dominate playing a more traditional CHF role. He has the best extension when going for marks in the game and liteally makes it impossible to stop him fairly when he gets good deleviry. For that matter J Brown and Bradshaw don't cover midfield type ground. Roughhead but is another example of a foward who doesn't play like an extra midfielder who has been very succesful. Lyon is using Riewoldt as the prototype but the fact of the matter is what makes Riewoldt such a star is that he covers midfield type ground but plays like a true KPP.

More so on this is that if this where true it would eventually switch back, similar to the way the emphasis on different types of rucks has continually switched in recent years. A big strong foward would come into the game and exploit the lack of size and the emphasis would shift again.

 

[kevind]

Wouldn't mind buying land from Gary Lyon if for every 190cm he underestimates by between 4-6 cm . Everything else he wrote though was spot on. The CHF position doesn't exist the way it did several years ago. A modern CHF is really an over sized midfielder.

Critics on this board of Chris Dawes are pointing to his less than impressive overhead marking. Fair call, but hardly any overhead contested marks are taken in the game anymore. Any player who relied on this method of getting kicks simply would not get a game.

JA was our leading goal scorer last year playing as a KF, but how many of those goals would have been from contested marks, in particular, overhead contested marks. I didn't count them , obviously, but I would not think anymore than about 3.

Without super athletic ability, it is very hard to survive in today's game, even for key forwards.

 

[Chartreuse]

If he wasn't such a red-hot defender I reckon O'Brien, with a bit of training, could make a career as a key FWD.

Can take a contested mark, fast off the blocks for leading, great at getting ball at ground level out of congestion, seems to read the play as well as anyone, and he's definitely not shy of kicking at the sticks!

 

[StillWaiting5689]

So players all over the ground need to be more athletic and fit, including key forwards. Thanks Gary. It was only last year when the media were harping on about the importance of strong marking forwards when the bulldogs didn't have one.

 

[lgarth80]

If he wasn't such a red-hot defender I reckon O'Brien, with a bit of training, could make a career as a key FWD.

Can take a contested mark, fast off the blocks for leading, great at getting ball at ground level out of congestion, seems to read the play as well as anyone, and he's definitely not shy of kicking at the sticks!

Absolutely correct, in the Max Rooke style role.
Would love to see him let off the leash to play a quarter in the midfield or a game up forward against a team down the bottom of the ladder.

Would be great to have a switch up our sleeve just in case.

Certainly I thought having to consistently man up the best small (when he's tall and not ideally suited) made a impact on Harry on the weekend. Just didn't seem himself, but more under pressure until his goal and then a few charging runs in the last quarter.

Would love to see him get a run as a roaming flanker this week and leave the tougher jobs to Reid/Toovey/Brown/Maxwell just for one game.