Draft Watcher Knightmare's 2018 AFL Draft Almanac

[HedgeFund]

As long as they have Bolton in the chair they're stuffed, take your Chris Fagan, like Bolton he served a long apprenticeship under Clarko, look at the difference. Fagan 2 years in the job and you guys have a clear direction and the improvement in culture and on field performance is there for everyone to see, Bolton 3 years in the job and Carlton are still floundering around in the wilderness with no clear direction and their hand out.

To be fair, Fagan handpicked Bolton to come to Hawthorn, and has 15-20 years more coaching experience as well.

You’re right though, Bolton hasn’t seemed to progress things very much at all. Pressure should have been on last year, but definitely in 2019. He needs to start getting his team to score more and keep their ball in their front 50 more often.

 

[Knightmare]

Just trying to get a gauge on the strength of the draft. Looking purely at 'best available' selections, would you prefer Hawthorn's picks of 15 and 33, or Carlton's picks of 24 and 25?

A question that comes down to who you like in this draft.

Most years you'd take 15/33 but it's a year where from 8-30ish the draft flattens out with a good group with a real variety of high probability and upside selections.

Carlton need more kids?

The state league players are better than many on their list. IF you think the Blues players are ALL better, then they would have won more than two games.

What the league players provide is the veteran leadership, physical readiness and competition for spots that the kids need. Without this you end up with a team stuck at the bottom of the ladder.

Why just because Carlton don't want state league players ? Carlton can always trade the other two state league players to GC for pick 17/18. GC will end up with pick 2,3 and 5 state league players + pick 26,29 , 38, 41( possible trade for players or future pick )

A state league all-star team could have come together and beaten Carlton this year. They've got big time top end talents, but there is a lot of talent in the state leagues and a lot of them who are good enough to slot straight into their best 22. Gold Coast who are in a worse spot even than Carlton and much worse after this offseason with the name players set to leave, you're looking at a hell of a lot of positions state leaguers could take off current best 22 players.

As was proven with Gold Coast and GWS trading state leaguers when they had priority access.

Gold Coast would love to have Dayne Zorko. GWS would have loved to have kept Jamie Elliott and Luke Brown. You can get some good pieces who can be there for a long time. It's not all about getting 18 year olds.

 

[Peel67skin]

17/18 alone ain't going to cut the mustard for McGovern with 2 years on his contract my friend

Carlton need to get creative and swap pick with either Geelong or Sydney .for pick 11/12 by using their pick 18 and pick 24 , but if Adelaide insisted on pick 1 or Top 10 pick Carlton should just give up on Mitch .

 

[LemmingMaster]

As long as they have Bolton in the chair they're stuffed, take your Chris Fagan, like Bolton he served a long apprenticeship under Clarko, look at the difference. Fagan 2 years in the job and you guys have a clear direction and the improvement in culture and on field performance is there for everyone to see, Bolton 3 years in the job and Carlton are still floundering around in the wilderness with no clear direction and their hand out.

Answer honestly, are Carlton and Brisbane at the same point in their rebuild? Aka, did they both start their rebuild at the same time or is one of these two teams a year or two ahead of the other?

 

[Bicks]

Answer honestly, are Carlton and Brisbane at the same point in their rebuild? Aka, did they both start their rebuild at the same time or is one of these two teams a year or two ahead of the other?

Brisbane are light years ahead, Carlton haven't even made it to the blocks yet.

Kristin Jaksch, Mark Riley, Liam Sumner, Rhys Palmer, Jed Lamb, Jarrod Pickett, Andrew Phillips, Sam Kerridge, Matt Wright and that's just off the top of my head.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Brisbane are light years ahead, Carlton haven't even made it to the blocks yet.

Kristin Jaksch, Mark Riley, Liam Sumner, Rhys Palmer, Jed Lamb, Jarrod Pickett, Andrew Phillips, Sam Kerridge, Matt Wright and that's just off the top of my head.

Yet you make a statement about a coaches ability when one is light years ahead of their rebuild?

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Yet you make a statement about a coaches ability when one is light years ahead of their rebuild?

Brisbane are light years ahead largely because of their coach. Leave Voss or Leppitsch in charge and they look like Carlton.

 

[briztoon]

Yet you make a statement about a coaches ability when one is light years ahead of their rebuild?

When did our rebuild start? 3 years ago, when we drafted Schache and you drafted Weitering. The following year Noble and Fagan came on board and set about fixing our culture, which was largely achieved by trading out Pearce Hanley to Gold Coast and Tom Rockliff to Port Adelaide.

The 2013 offseason gutted our club (GH5), it took a couple of years to steady the club from that, then began to rebuild.

The single biggest factor driving our rebuild is not the players, but Fagan, ably supported by Swann and Noble.


The main fear amongst Lions fans is what happens to our playing group when Hodge, Martin, Beams, Zorko and Rich retire, slow down or move on. After our five senior players, we have a big age gap to the rest of our current best 22 players, and key reserves. Everyone else is 23 years old or younger, with the exception of 24 year old Charlie Cameron.

 

[Walkingwounded]

When did our rebuild start? 3 years ago, when we drafted Schache and you drafted Weitering. The following year Noble and Fagan came on board and set about fixing our culture, which was largely achieved by trading out Pearce Hanley to Gold Coast and Tom Rockliff to Port Adelaide.

The 2013 offseason gutted our club (GH5), it took a couple of years to steady the club from that, then began to rebuild.

The single biggest factor driving our rebuild is not the players, but Fagan, ably supported by Swann and Noble.


The main fear amongst Lions fans is what happens to our playing group when Hodge, Martin, Beams, Zorko and Rich retire, slow down or move on. After our five senior players, we have a big age gap to the rest of our current best 22 players, and key reserves. Everyone else is 23 years old or younger, with the exception of 24 year old Charlie Cameron.

Hence Lachie Neale interest?

 

[Knightmare]

Brisbane are light years ahead largely because of their coach. Leave Voss or Leppitsch in charge and they look like Carlton.

I don't believe the coach is the number one factor.

I believe that great reason for change actually is Luke Hodge.

This is a great read by Alex Witherden: https://www.playersvoice.com.au/alex-witherden-how-hodgey-changed-club/

 

[LemmingMaster]

Brisbane are light years ahead, Carlton haven't even made it to the blocks yet.

Kristin Jaksch, Mark Riley, Liam Sumner, Rhys Palmer, Jed Lamb, Jarrod Pickett, Andrew Phillips, Sam Kerridge, Matt Wright and that's just off the top of my head.

Not sure why you've decided to add four names not on our list to prove a point? I think you may need to get a new top of head.

 

[LemmingMaster]

When did our rebuild start? 3 years ago, when we drafted Schache and you drafted Weitering.

Your rebuild started 3 years ago? If that is the case, then I guess we started at the same time and you are ahead of Carlton.

 

[Davo-27]

I don't believe the coach is the number one factor.

I believe that great reason for change actually is Luke Hodge.

This is a great read by Alex Witherden: https://www.playersvoice.com.au/alex-witherden-how-hodgey-changed-club/

i agree, Hodge is an amazing leader of men, you would go to war with him by your side and thats a huge thing for football clubs, but the only reason Hodge is there is because of Fagan, its too bad he cant play at a good level anymore, but his Positive Ultra Masculinity is a good example for the young blokes at Brisbane and will hold them in good stead.

 

[Jamie Hamel]

Last year Players like Geordie Nagle, Charlie Thompson, Ethan Penerith, Federico and Angus Hicks were samples of being over looked and they are did very well in there TAC years. For example Geordie Nagle was one of the most composed kicks and best runners in the TAC cup last year and I've heard one of the reasons he didn't get picked up was he was in year 12 I mean he averaged 26 disposals and 8 marks with 4-5 tackles a club should give him a go you don't win best and fairest for no reason, all these players deserve at least a rookie contract for one year to prove themselves because they dominated the TAC competition last year and yes you might say now that they all haven't gotten a lot of VFL exposure but they are guns who I'd like to see get picked up especially Geordie Nagle who's averaged big numbers in the VAFA season and played very well in hawks intra club match showing that he'd fit in anywhere

 

[HedgeFund]

Last year Players like Geordie Nagle, Charlie Thompson, Ethan Penerith, Federico and Angus Hicks were samples of being over looked and they are did very well in there TAC years. For example Geordie Nagle was one of the most composed kicks and best runners in the TAC cup last year and I've heard one of the reasons he didn't get picked up was he was in year 12 I mean he averaged 26 disposals and 8 marks with 4-5 tackles a club should give him a go you don't win best and fairest for no reason, all these players deserve at least a rookie contract for one year to prove themselves because they dominated the TAC competition last year and yes you might say now that they all haven't gotten a lot of VFL exposure but they are guns who I'd like to see get picked up especially Geordie Nagle who's averaged big numbers in the VAFA season and played very well in hawks intra club match showing that he'd fit in anywhere

Take a breath, and grab a comma or two, maybe a full stop.

Geordie Nagle had a great 2017 as a year 11, and is doing year 12 attached to Box Hill. If the Hawks think he’s worth a rookie slot, they’ve had Chris Newman overseeing him all season. They’re the most likely club to give him a shot. If not, I’m sure he will start pushing into their VFL team as a regular and attracting more attention as a result.

Thompson is the most advanced of that group IMO. Was very valuable at Carey and played a significant midfield/forward role for Richmond VFL. Penrith has already re-signed at Northern Blues.

 

[Bicks]

Take a breath, and grab a comma or two, maybe a full stop.

Geordie Nagle had a great 2017 as a year 11, and is doing year 12 attached to Box Hill. If the Hawks think he’s worth a rookie slot, they’ve had Chris Newman overseeing him all season. They’re the most likely club to give him a shot. If not, I’m sure he will start pushing into their VFL team as a regular and attracting more attention as a result.

Thompson is the most advanced of that group IMO. Was very valuable at Carey and played a significant midfield/forward role for Richmond VFL. Penrith has already re-signed at Northern Blues.

I really liked Ethan Penrith on the occasions I saw him play live for the Knights, quick, evasive, manic tackler and really brought the heat defensively. Kicking was inconsistent probably what the recruiters questioned? Surprised he didn't get a rookie spot at least on an AFL list with the importance placed on defensive pressure of recent times.

 

[Yoda_]

I don't believe the coach is the number one factor.

I believe that great reason for change actually is Luke Hodge.

This is a great read by Alex Witherden: https://www.playersvoice.com.au/alex-witherden-how-hodgey-changed-club/

Under rated point this!

Melbourne seemed to really turn a corner when they acquired Daniel Cross, Cam Pederson and even Bernie Vince. All AFL players of high character. Not rejects but not worth a lot. Happens all the time and Carlton should be no different.

Suggested they target a guy like Brendan Goddard. Would play for not much ($400,000 compared to what he would get paid if in retirement) and he is markedly better than who they have got in the recent past as mature aged rejects.

Melbourne have done it, Gold Coast were on the right path but went the wrong choice players and didnt even play them. etc. etc.

Carlton need leaders to teach the kids, not kids teaching kids ala Melbourne, circa 2011.

 

[eDPS]

Under rated point this!

Melbourne seemed to really turn a corner when they acquired Daniel Cross, Cam Pederson and even Bernie Vince. All AFL players of high character. Not rejects but not worth a lot. Happens all the time and Carlton should be no different.

Suggested they target a guy like Brendan Goddard. Would play for not much ($400,000 compared to what he would get paid if in retirement) and he is markedly better than who they have got in the recent past as mature aged rejects.

Melbourne have done it, Gold Coast were on the right path but went the wrong choice players and didnt even play them. etc. etc.

Carlton need leaders to teach the kids, not kids teaching kids ala Melbourne, circa 2011.

One of the reasons I like Simpson going another year, he is still very important for that sides development.

 

[Yoda_]

One of the reasons I like Simpson going another year, he is still very important for that sides development.

Playing good footy and being amongst your sides top 5 players always helps also

 

[LittleG]

Under rated point this!

Melbourne seemed to really turn a corner when they acquired Daniel Cross, Cam Pederson and even Bernie Vince. All AFL players of high character. Not rejects but not worth a lot. Happens all the time and Carlton should be no different.

Suggested they target a guy like Brendan Goddard. Would play for not much ($400,000 compared to what he would get paid if in retirement) and he is markedly better than who they have got in the recent past as mature aged rejects.

Melbourne have done it, Gold Coast were on the right path but went the wrong choice players and didnt even play them. etc. etc.

Carlton need leaders to teach the kids, not kids teaching kids ala Melbourne, circa 2011.

Crossy really changed the culture at Melbourne. He changed a lot of the training habits and made the players more accountable in their training standards.

Goddard is not a good club man. He isn't someone who is going to help with the kiddies.

Wait for delistings or see who is getting shipped off to retirement, there might be someone there. Other options are state league players.

 

[Yoda_]

Crossy really changed the culture at Melbourne. He changed a lot of the training habits and made the players more accountable in their training standards.

Goddard is not a good club man. He isn't someone who is going to help with the kiddies.

Wait for delistings or see who is getting shipped off to retirement, there might be someone there. Other options are state league players.

You know very little about Brendan if you think that is the case.

Demonstrative on field? Absolutely! respected amongst his peers? even more

 

[Bicks]

Crossy really changed the culture at Melbourne. He changed a lot of the training habits and made the players more accountable in their training standards.

Goddard is not a good club man. He isn't someone who is going to help with the kiddies.

Wait for delistings or see who is getting shipped off to retirement, there might be someone there. Other options are state league players.

I agree with you on Goddard, in his last year he really came across as an angry man playing football, some of his finger pointing and on field bollocking of teammates certainly had a bad look to it.

 

[Knightmare]

Under rated point this!

Melbourne seemed to really turn a corner when they acquired Daniel Cross, Cam Pederson and even Bernie Vince. All AFL players of high character. Not rejects but not worth a lot. Happens all the time and Carlton should be no different.

Suggested they target a guy like Brendan Goddard. Would play for not much ($400,000 compared to what he would get paid if in retirement) and he is markedly better than who they have got in the recent past as mature aged rejects.

Melbourne have done it, Gold Coast were on the right path but went the wrong choice players and didnt even play them. etc. etc.

Carlton need leaders to teach the kids, not kids teaching kids ala Melbourne, circa 2011.

I have long felt that that veteran leadership is the greatest key to building a winning team. And you can really see/feel the difference, particularly how stark it is between the great teams and the teams that continue to go through rebuilding cycles and get nowhere.

Gold Coast are the team in need of those veteran leaders more than anyone. Carlton too. Particularly if they want to get the most out of their younger players.

It's no coincidence that a Selwood at 7 is the best in his draft going to Geelong, Pendlebury at 5 to Collingwood, Franklin at 5 to Hawthorn. Sure they'd in all likelihood be great at other clubs. But having those veteran leaders around them at the time they were drafted and in those early years of development. That's why they're among the modern greats.

Then you look at a Gold Coast where they draft David Swallow with pick 1 (consensus number one), get Jaeger O'Meara (mini draft pick 1) and Jack Martin the next year with pick 1 in the mini draft. Sam Day at pick 3 looked like he had all the tools and has never come along either. You would have thought you'd be talking about each of those guys as being among the premier players at the competition based on who they were projecting to becoming as juniors. It's obviously they've never had a Luke Hodge. Ablett is an all-time great player, but he's a lead through performance guy who needs leaders around him to lead the group. He's not one who does as Hodge has in one year with Gold Coast. Gold Coast NEED that guy and a few others who in addition can set that culture and start driving things forward.

 

[LittleG]

You know very little about Brendan if you think that is the case.

Demonstrative on field? Absolutely! respected amongst his peers? even more

Goddard is highly driven but that isn't everything.
Talk to him about the game, next time you get the chance. He is too black & white and not humble enough.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Under rated point this!

Melbourne seemed to really turn a corner when they acquired Daniel Cross, Cam Pederson and even Bernie Vince. All AFL players of high character. Not rejects but not worth a lot. Happens all the time and Carlton should be no different.

Also some guy named Paul Roos.