Kreuzer in the ruck

[CarltonFan]

The delivery into the forward line on Saturday would have made Lance Franklin look like a shit forward.

We all know he is a brilliant ruck, let's find out how good he could be up forward. Be patient.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

It was only one game so I'm happy for Ratten to try again before eliminating the Rucks (mainly Kruezer) as a forward target. Mainly due to Warnock showing quite a bit in the ruck and the fact that we dont have that many options. Hendo sort of looks like he needs a year of development, and Waite is coming back from injury and really isn't the crash and bash option we need!

Note
Right from the end of last season I was against Rucks playing fwd due to agility issues and ground level defensive pressure weaknesses! I was one of a very few who said they would struggle! But to be honest there isn't much choice but to continue this trial into 1-2 more games and hope! One saving grace for Kruezer was that the delivery into the fwd 50 was diabolical!

What frustrated me more was the run and carry from defence to attack...absolutely woeful and makes me slightly worried about our transition tactics. Not to mention kicking in..aargh..what a frustrating game...

Note to self...let it go

 

[Monkey King]

If Hampson was a more reliable kick at goal, then I would be more than happy for him to continue on as a tall forward.

I was all for Hampson playing up forward - more so than Kreuzer - and the lad has, in theory, terrific physical attributes to make the job a success: speed off the mark, leap, height, agility.

However, on Saturday night he really looked like a ruckman playing in the forward line, sometimes even leaping vertically to tap out incoming kicks - indirected as they were - in an effort to get a hand on the ball.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

I was all for Hampson playing up forward - more so than Kreuzer - and the lad has, in theory, terrific physical attributes to make the job a success: speed off the mark, leap, height, agility.

I think you are a describing a potential Decathlete rather than a footballer

 

[OldBlueFan]

Kreuzer would have to do tons of intense training on sprint leads, double back, sprint again. It's what forwards need to do, and it's different to ruckman who need to be "mobile" but not explosive. I am not sure if Kreuzer has "explosive" in him.

It's because of the "explosive" pace concept that I think Hampson is the better experiment. He's learned enough about the ruck craft to be a handy back-up if others go down. So we don't lose anything by trying to turn him into a forward now.

Kruezer on the other hand looks vital to our on-ball division and we risk both losing drive around the ground and turning him into a "jack of all trades, master of none" when he looks to truly be a potential master ruckman.

If Hampson was a more reliable kick at goal, then I would be more than happy for him to continue on as a tall forward. However, once you slot Waite and O'Hailpin back into that forward line, alongside Henderson, our talls down there don't look so bad. We also have Austin who has shown he can play forward as well, which might mean we don't need to utilise Kreuzer or Hampson up forward as often as we all think.

But these things can be worked on and learned HBF. We know from the mark and goal that he produced against Collingwood, that he CAN kick straight ... and long. If we are prepared to be patient with him he might just turn out OK.

I think the more important skill for him to learn is to use his pace to get to the right spots. On a lead and taking marks on the chest, I can't see too many defenders stopping him and if they do spoil, we have the small forwards to take full advantage of it.

Also, I think the forward pressure that he could bring with his agility and size will create goals for other players.

My own hope was that Hampson might be developed as the tall forward and MK left to do his thing, but I can't see that happening this year if at all.

Everyone is advocating giving Henderson more time to develop (and I'm not disputing this at all) but not Hampson ... why?

Henderson comes from a football background, Hampson played soccer until a few years ago. Henderson was a forward all through his junior days ... Hampson, since he started playing footy at all has been used exclusively as a ruckman and so has worked on those skills.

Therefore, if we're willing to just "leave Henderson in the forward line and let him develop the skills", why can't we cut Hampson the same slack?

Obviously, while restructuring our forward line, we wouldn't expect to be genuine contenders this year, so let's use the time to give some guys who have real potential time in the forward line and see what comes of it.

I'm not saying he WILL, but IF Hampson could become a decent target up forward, with Henderson there in tandem and Waite drifting in for support, we'd have a forward line that would be a worry for most teams!

 

[Kramer1]

Everyone is advocating giving Henderson more time to develop (and I'm not disputing this at all) but not Hampson ... why?

Wherever Hampson plays it will take time for him to develop. We are all waiting on him to become the next Kurt Tippett, and taking delight in every small positive sign that he shows, but on Saturday he showed as a footballer that he still has more in common with Mike Pyke than Tippett, albeit from limited opportunity.

I have been an advocate of giving him solid game time at senior level waiting for him to 'click', though I am beginning to think with deeper ruck stocks that he should spend some more time with the Ants. I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong.

 

[Blue since 72]

Krueze in the middle rucking or as a genuine midfielder for mine. Agree with some other posts he appears to need to be close to the ball at all times to give his best, obviously enjoys the action. With plenty of tall options for the forward line (Hendo, Irish, Waite depending on knee/where Ratts sees him playing, Austin? although I like him CHB) I'd probably retract my desire to see him at CHF too.

And while I'm at it no need for Judd forward either. While I understand from a career longevity point of view he will probably need to be able to do this he currently just looks uncomfortable. Whether his shoulders restrict him or he's just conscious of them he doesn't look natural as a lead up forward or when trying to take a mark in a pack (looks like he is worried about crashing to the ground).

 

[Monkey King]

I think you are a describing a potential Decathlete rather than a footballer

Speed of the mark... leap... height... nope; sounds like a leading FF if you ask me.

 

[jd2006]

Wherever Hampson plays it will take time for him to develop. We are all waiting on him to become the next Kurt Tippett, and taking delight in every small positive sign that he shows, but on Saturday he showed as a footballer that he still has more in common with Mike Pyke than Tippett, albeit from limited opportunity.

I have been an advocate of giving him solid game time at senior level waiting for him to 'click', though I am beginning to think with deeper ruck stocks that he should spend some more time with the Ants. I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong.

Agree 100% with this post. Hampson is a massive work in progress and so far its coming along ok. But he is not yet ready to be an AFL KPF, and is barely able to be our #2 ruck. He has all the physical attributes to become a dominant AFL footballer but right now he isnt the answer to anything.

Kruezer in the ruck for sure. He is an extra on baller at stoppages and his 1%er's around the ground are amazing

 

[HBF]

Agree 100% with this post. Hampson is a massive work in progress and so far its coming along ok. But he is not yet ready to be an AFL KPF, and is barely able to be our #2 ruck. He has all the physical attributes to become a dominant AFL footballer but right now he isnt the answer to anything.

Kruezer in the ruck for sure. He is an extra on baller at stoppages and his 1%er's around the ground are amazing

Can't argue with that, although i'd like to see Hampson persisted with as a more regular forward than Kreuzer. If Hampson can really apply himself, and the club can fast-track his development, he could become a massive weapon for us over the next few seasons.

 

[Bluebear]

I agree with the OP.

The problem is that someone has to go down there. Now, Setanta, Hendo and Waite may be able to carry it, and Hampson may develop, but Kreuzer will get his turn there as well.

The number of times he has started forward and not gone well are now far outweighing the one time it came off (vs Port).

All other times he has pushed forward as a ruck and found space with his opponent gasping for air somewhere back on the C sq.

When he has a defender starting shoulder to shoulder and has to work him over to get separation........well it isn't coming naturally to him. I acknowledge that he is young and it could develop, but I'd rather persist with Hamspon, or push Austin up there and let Kreuzer and Warnock dominate the ruck.......just on that......can we try Warnock in the goal square too please?

 

[HBF]

I can also see Kreuzer using his athletisism to push forward, and really trying to run his opposition ruckmen off their legs, particularly if he runs forward towards the end of match. He has so much hurt factor, it's just not funny.

 

[invinciBlues]

I can also see Kreuzer using his athletisism to push forward, and really trying to run his opposition ruckmen off their legs, particularly if he runs forward towards the end of match. He has so much hurt factor, it's just not funny.

Agreed. Running towards goal with the ball, not running away from them on the lead to receive the ball

Now *that* particular talent is definitely in his arsenal. More of that Ratts. I still believe this kid is the second coming of Kouta. Seeing Kruze bursting out of stoppages or when the ball is in dispute, scooping it off the ground takes me back to a happier place...

 

[Amers]

I chopped this out of my post in the "positives" thread ... somehow it seems more appropriate here

Oh, and I know it's been said elsewhere, but Kruezer MUST play on the ball and only be used to drift into the forward line (or maybe rest there). He seemed to take a while to get going once moved into the middle, as though his 1/4 in the forward line had sapped his confidence. Maybe it was just that he's such a workhorse that his body doesn't like being camped in the forward line with nothing much to do? Please MC ... don't destroy a future champion trying to turn him into something he's not! It's almost a reverse Paul Salmon situation

As others have said, Warnock and Jacobs are also good ruckmen, so if you're going to be "experimental", it should be with Hampson. If he can be taught to lead into the right space and the little guys can learn to feed off any spillage, at least he can be turned into a productive member of the team. But he's certainly surplus to our ruck requirements and he'll never be the champion "follower" type that Kruezer looks set to become. So at least you're not spoiling a good thing if it doesn't work out.

I agree, well said !!

 

[Weiterbot23]

Rucks
-Kreuzer
-Warnock
-hampson
-Jacobs

all imo AFL seniors quality

Key Forwards
-underdeveloped Henderson
-Recovering from reco Waite??


We are loaded in the rucks department and don't have much in the forwards. So we either play kreuzer or hamma forward or have Hamma and Jacobs playing for the Ants.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...we need to trade hamma for a KP Forward.

 

[OldBlueFan]

I still believe this kid is the second coming of Kouta.

Hampson looks more like the second coming of Kouta to me. Tall, athletic, built like a brick shithouse with most of his bulk above the waist.

Kreuzer for mine is more like the second coming of Bruce Doull. Determined, skillful, never-say-die and ... silent!

 

[HBF]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...we need to trade hamma for a KP Forward.

Easy to say mate, but clubs don't just trade away KPF's these days, especially now that the next couple of drafts will be pretty slim pickings. We do have the potential to have a very mulit-pronged forward line, with the likes of Henderson, Waite, O'Hailpin and Austin going through there, and hopefully one of the rookies we drafted can come along as maybe a 20+ a year goal kicker.

 

[jd2006]

Hampson looks more like the second coming of Kouta to me. Tall, athletic, built like a brick shithouse with most of his bulk above the waist.

Kreuzer for mine is more like the second coming of Bruce Doull. Determined, skillful, never-say-die and ... silent!

But Kouta had a football brain and could take a contested mark. And he wasn't a bad kick either

 

[Beloved]

Kreuzer should never play as a permanent forward, only as part of the rotations. He is great in the ruck and when he's having his rest, he can go forward and get a mark or two because it surprises the opposition. If he is played forward all game then it becomes more predictable and we lose him in the ruck.