Kyle Martin.

[ClaytonM]

swan and ball are aging. he can perform admirably in those roles. why look elsewhere when you have the best in your own backyard.

Yes but we have Adams, Kennedy, Broomhead, Sharenberg, Freeman all lining up to replace them. I would be looking elsewhere if I was Martin.

It might not be our choice to keep him. Unfortunately that is how it goes sometimes.

 

[Kilmo]

Kyle Martin rookie upgrade a la Blair mid 2010 = Premiership

 

[TheWing121]

Kyle Martin rookie upgrade a la Blair mid 2010 = Premiership

Hopefully he takes his spot 2

 

[Apex36]

Kyle Martin rookie upgrade a la Blair mid 2010 = Premiership

If he can lift his defensive game to the same level, I would say he will be upgraded at the end of the season and be gunning for Blair's spot.
Hope it happens, the improvement in this kids game in such a short amount of time has been incredible. He will make it in the AFL, even if it's not with the pies.

 

[Lockyer24]

Contrary to belief I think there is plenty of room for a forward flanker/midfielder in our side...upgrade and see how he goes.

 

[morgoth]

I think the crows inquired about him last year?

He will be getting noticed.

 

[PepperFace]

I think the crows inquired about him last year?

He will be getting noticed.

I bet the Bombers know all about him after his last two VFL performances against them!

 

[DNine]

I have been willing his promotion for quite some time. He averaged 75 supercoach points when he played seniors, and really should not of been dropped. It certainly wasn't due to poor form, just that injured players came back last year.

To pick up Armstrong and not promote him permanently was a very poor decision. If he walks at the end of the year, we only have ourselves to blame. He is a very balanced footballer, who is dead eye in front of goal, and gets load of it. AND hits his target around the field.

Q.Lynch has broken his leg, so maybe that is an opportunity for the Pies to promote him. I am not sure whether we have the room to promote him in round 11, and my research tells me it depends on whether we have the room in the salary cap.

If he doesn't see some coin for his efforts soon, he will be tearing us a new one with another club next year. Lets hope we do the right thing, he is better than half our running players.

 

[4#Didak#4]

I too agree the decision to take Armstrong and not upgrade Martin was a really poor one. Martin is already AFL quality in my opinion, he is just unfortunate we are well stocked in the midfield and find it hard to squeeze him in.

He is very much in the mould of Dane Swan which is a very unusal thing to say as Swanny is a one of a kind. What I mean is his natural ball finding ability and the danger he poses going forward is similar to Swan and I don't think you can have too many of these types.

I think the only knock on him (like Swanny) has been his two way running and defensive aspects. I cannot think of any other reason for not promoting him and this tag was attached to Martin last year - we know Buck is massive on this. From what I have seen though he tackles & chases well, but maybe doesn't work back enough to assist team mates. But I am of the school that if he is getting 30 and kicking 4 goals every week then I don't really care. I would love to see him go on the ball (not forward) in the AFL for a full game and see what he can do at that level.

Unfortunately he is going to have to rely on injuries to not only get promoted but get him a game in the senior mids. If that doesn't happen I think its a long shot that he stays. He would practically be leading the Melbourne midfield this year if they had him.

 

[blaze036]

Just wondering what people think we could get for Martin at the tade table. My preference would be to keep him, but with guys like Josh Thomas, Ben Kennedy, Nathan Freeman etc coming through we have to make a call at some point. I reckon he could be trade bait at the end of the season unless there is a spot on the list for him (i.e. luke ball could potentially retire). Without trying to overrate our players....i think it would be tempting to trade if someone offered a pick around 20-30.

You're dreaming if you think you can get a pick in the 20-30 for a 23 year old very good VFL player.

Would get a 3rd rounder at best for Martin, doubt there would be much interest for him.

 

[PepperFace]

You're dreaming if you think you can get a pick in the 20-30 for a 23 year old very good VFL player.

Would get a 3rd rounder at best for Martin, doubt there would be much interest for him.

This is exactly my point....if we could get something in the 20's I would think about it. But any higher I wouldnt trade cause hes too valuable.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I too agree the decision to take Armstrong and not upgrade Martin was a really poor one. Martin is already AFL quality in my opinion, he is just unfortunate we are well stocked in the midfield and find it hard to squeeze him in.

Well then maybe it wasnt a poor one because we are not as blessed in defence as we are in the midfield and forward. You inadertently contradicted yourself!!

 

[mike123]

This is exactly my point....if we could get something in the 20's I would think about it. But any higher I wouldnt trade cause hes too valuable.

He's not that valuable to us if he isn't going to get a game and will be behind guys like Taylor Adams, Josh Thomas, Ben Kennedy

 

[PepperFace]

He's not that valuable to us if he isn't going to get a game and will be behind guys like Taylor Adams, Josh Thomas, Ben Kennedy

He obviously is behind those guys due to being on the Rookie list. However over the past year and a bit, on form, he would be at least equal of those guys.....maybe even ahead

 

[dubber]

Why are people comparing Armstrong's trade to Kyle Martin's promotion. two different players, competing for very different positions on the field.

Armstrong was recruited, very cheaply i must add, to replenish the back stocks which our club thought needed bolstering.

Kyle is in a conundrum. He is too good for VFL but not quite elite at AFL level. In his path stand Blair, Adams, Kennedy & Josh Thomas. He has to make a choice at years end to either stay with us & take a punt on getting selected for seniors or walk to another club for better opportunities.

 

[Scodog10]

Well then maybe it wasnt a poor one because we are not as blessed in defence as we are in the midfield and forward. You inadertently contradicted yourself!!

Not so sure about that.

Langdon, Toovey, Armstrong, Williams, Clarke, Sinclair, Fasolo and Yagmoor v Blair, Karnezis, Dwyer, Elliott, Broomhead and mids pushing forward.

Considering I raised the point that we cut Didak and Krak yet only added Dwyer as a small offensive option over the off-season and you brushed it aside with coulda, shoulda, woulda I'm not expecting much acknowledgement....

 

[Apex36]

He's not that valuable to us if he isn't going to get a game and will be behind guys like Taylor Adams, Josh Thomas, Ben Kennedy

If he can lift his defensive game a bit more (which he has done a bit already), I could see him as a small forward that can rotate through the midfield. As good as Blair is with pressure acts etc, I think Martin would be more valuable in the long run given his ability to find the ball, his clean use, and his innate ability to put the ball between the sticks.

 

[mike123]

He obviously is behind those guys due to being on the Rookie list. However over the past year and a bit, on form, he would be at least equal of those guys.....maybe even ahead

He would definitely be behind Adams if they were both on the senior list and was behind JT and Kennedy when they were both on the senior list last year.

 

[mike123]

If he can lift his defensive game a bit more (which he has done a bit already), I could see him as a small forward that can rotate through the midfield. As good as Blair is with pressure acts etc, I think Martin would be more valuable in the long run given his ability to find the ball, his clean use, and his innate ability to put the ball between the sticks.

I think Jt will be the one in the end to fully replace Blair.

 

[TheWing121]

I think Jt will be the one in the end to fully replace Blair.

I would say the spots up there that aren't secured are Blair, Thomas & Goldsack. With Reid to eventually replace Witts.

 

[4#Didak#4]

Well then maybe it wasnt a poor one because we are not as blessed in defence as we are in the midfield and forward. You inadertently contradicted yourself!!

I think we are batting pretty well for smaller defensive options, its not like we have a shortage there other than when we are hit by a myriad of injuries and assault charges that affect just that position. Even then Armstrong is incapable of breaking into the best 22 leaving me question if he is AFL quality. If Armstrong had broken into the team and held down a spot - like Langdon has - then it may not have been a poor decsion, but this is a distant possibility now with Williams, Sinclair & Seedsman all needing to come into the best 22. Both are depth players in their respective positions one can play AFL level, one cannot.

Effectivley I think Armstrong was a punt and an after thought. He now occupies a position on our list, when we had a really solid AFL quality option right under our noses in Martin. If Martin can't be retained at the end of the year and Armstrong is delisted it will be a really bad miscalculation.

I think unless there is a screaming positional need you should always pick best available. Its never that simple I know that and in the back of my mind I think its perhaps Marsh who popped up on draft day and maybe filled that last spot unexpectedly and Martin got shafted as a result.

As for trade value if Martin had made our list, he would be a tradeable commodity for clubs needing ball winning mids even without an AFL game. If Matt Thomas can get games for the Tigers in their starting midfield Martin can. Melbourne traded pick 54 for Viv Michie and I would have Martin over him in a blink.

 

[Pie eyed]

Not so sure about that.

Langdon, Toovey, Armstrong, Williams, Clarke, Sinclair, Fasolo and Yagmoor v Blair, Karnezis, Dwyer, Elliott, Broomhead and mids pushing forward.

Considering I raised the point that we cut Didak and Krak yet only added Dwyer as a small offensive option over the off-season and you brushed it aside with coulda, shoulda, woulda I'm not expecting much acknowledgement....

and the Seed.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I think we are batting pretty well for smaller defensive options, its not like we have a shortage there other than when we are hit by a myriad of injuries and assault charges that affect just that position.

I agree but for various reasons at the start of the year we had no clue whether we'd get any value out of Maxwell Fasolo Williams Scharenburg Toovey Clarke Langdon or Yagmoor. All had question marks for one reason or another.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Not so sure about that.

Langdon, Toovey, Armstrong, Williams, Clarke, Sinclair, Fasolo and Yagmoor v Blair, Karnezis, Dwyer, Elliott, Broomhead and mids pushing forward.

Considering I raised the point that we cut Didak and Krak yet only added Dwyer as a small offensive option over the off-season and you brushed it aside with coulda, shoulda, woulda I'm not expecting much acknowledgement....

Didak and Krak were no longer members of our best 22. Fasolo was coming back from injury and Kennedy's development was also a possibility, along with obviously Dwyer who was promoted and Elliot who clearly looks the goods, plus eveready bunny Blair. Not to mention that guy with the tatts whos getting a bit old for midfield now and will play in the forward line a bit and Karnezis as a taller option. And Goldy too. There was also the possibility of returning Caff to his premiership position of defensive forward.

The club has the list mix absolutely spot on. Martin should count himself blessed hes a Collingwood player, even if its only as a rookie in 2014.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Effectivley I think Armstrong was a punt and an after thought. .

More likely he was cheap insurance against a jail sentence for Marley.