Player Watch Lachie Schultz

[greening22]

We won a flag . Maybe you missed it.

No. I did not. But this is now 2024 & not 2023. You actually did not address any of the points that I made. In this competition you need to be constantly improving otherwise you go backwards at a rapid rate. Moreover most teams that have historically gone back to back have experienced anywhere between 4 to 6 players changing from 1 year to the next in terms of personnel when achieving such success. All I am saying is that in March of 2023 we have a dearth of key forwards & particularly emerging young key forwards. I do not think that I am misrepresenting the situation. Moreover I think that is a key problem going forward. You obviously disagree. Well that is fine. Just tell me what is the solution. Or perhaps we have no problem in that area at all? Goodnight & good luck..

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Dan Mcstay took awhile to settle in, and was heavily crucified on here. Now he’s injured he’s the messiah.

Let’s give this bloke some time, he’s been far from our worst in a team that’s been flogged in 2 games. Not exactly a small forwards dream game in a new team setup

The issue is, we didn’t give up a future first for Dan

Most don’t have an issue with Lachie in isolation. It’s what we gave up for him. I know I was vocal in my opposition for what we gave up for him.

While still fairly early obviously, I’m starting to feel somewhat vindicated in my feelings

 

[VinnieB]

No. I did not. But this is now 2024 & not 2023. You actually did not address any of the points that I made. In this competition you need to be constantly improving otherwise you go backwards at a rapid rate. Moreover most teams that have historically gone back to back have experienced anywhere between 4 to 6 players changing from 1 year to the next in terms of personnel when achieving such success. All I am saying is that in March of 2023 we have a dearth of key forwards & particularly emerging young key forwards. I do not think that I am misrepresenting the situation. Moreover I think that is a key problem going forward. You obviously disagree. Well that is fine. Just tell me what is the solution. Or perhaps we have no problem in that area at all? Goodnight & good luck..

I don’t think a premiership team has commenced Round 1 or 2, with 4-6 unforced changes. Maybe by the end of the season there may be more changes, but I’m not so sure it happens in the first few rounds.

We may in fact have 4 players who didn’t play in the GF, plays finals this year. It’s a long season.

 

[VinnieB]

The issue is, we didn’t give up a future first for Dan

Most don’t have an issue with Lachie in isolation. It’s what we gave up for him. I know I was vocal in my opposition for what we gave up for him.

While still fairly early obviously, I’m starting to feel somewhat vindicated in my feelings

Maybe it’s a curse. We trade out our future 1st and we turn into pumpkins.

 

[loki04]

That's not the view of the club, it's yours.

You are entitled to this opinion but it is not a fact.

I suspect you were a fan of Ginni and perhaps feel that Lachie pushed him out (which might very well be the case).

If the club wanted Ginni he'd still be there.

I never stated it was the clubs view.
They obviously thought it was good value as they did the deal.
It's not about ginni alone it's the whole lot together makes it overs imo.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I don’t think a premiership team has commenced Round 1 or 2, with 4-6 unforced changes. Maybe by the end of the season there may be more changes, but I’m not so sure it happens in the first few rounds.

We may in fact have 4 players who didn’t play in the GF, plays finals this year. It’s a long season.

We've already had Schultz, Dean, Johnson, and Macrae play this year (3 forced) who didn’t play in the GF. I’d imagine we’ll see quite a few more from across the squad as the season progress’s, and as you suggest, a few will become mainstays.

 

[BillyElliott]

We've already had Schultz, Dean, Johnson, and Macrae play this year (3 forced) who didn’t play in the GF. I’d imagine we’ll see quite a few more from across the squad as the season progress’s, and as you suggest, a few will become mainstays.

And Noble was sub in the Opening round. So we've already had 5 changes from the GF.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

No. I did not. But this is now 2024 & not 2023. You actually did not address any of the points that I made. In this competition you need to be constantly improving otherwise you go backwards at a rapid rate. Moreover most teams that have historically gone back to back have experienced anywhere between 4 to 6 players changing from 1 year to the next in terms of personnel when achieving such success. All I am saying is that in March of 2023 we have a dearth of key forwards & particularly emerging young key forwards. I do not think that I am misrepresenting the situation. Moreover I think that is a key problem going forward. You obviously disagree. Well that is fine. Just tell me what is the solution. Or perhaps we have no problem in that area at all? Goodnight & good luck..

Kpps don’t grow on trees and the few we have are injured. No point crying over spilt milk about past drafting issues. Hopefully we can turn that around in future drafts but in the meantime we will make do as we did last year.

Edit…. Most of your post was referring to the past so it’s entirely appropriate to also point to the premiership

 

[sr36]

Future first and a 2nd rounder. Plus Ginni out.

That is basically what we got for Dayne Beams at the height of his powers at 23 yo pending ladder finish.
For a small forward with only 2 good seasons behind him.

That's basically what we got for Beams if you pretend all first round picks are equal, all second round picks are equal and Jack Crisp doesn't exist.

 

[loki04]

That's basically what we got for Beams if you pretend all first round picks are equal, all second round picks are equal and Jack Crisp doesn't exist.

You only go off the compensation not the eventual outcome of the recruitment teams selections.

Crisp was a fringe player at the time. As was Ginnivan.

Our first is a gamble could be pick 5 or 15 yet.
If it ends up low then it's close to Beams compensation. There is no pretending, only denial by you and others its over paying for his type.
I stated that depending on finish position.
(Bobby Hill was smart trading and less expensive and at the time a need).

2nd round picks are 1nd round picks all have similar strike rates.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

That's basically what we got for Beams if you pretend all first round picks are equal, all second round picks are equal and Jack Crisp doesn't exist.

We also ended up with Levi in that trade

 

[loki04]

We also ended up with Levi in that trade

That was the 2nd round pick on traded.

The cost was a low first, a second and steak knives fringe mostly QAFL player with high upside.

We gave up a Future first (TBD), a second and had a secondary trade out of a fringe best 22 youngster with high upside in same role.
The cost for Pies and Brisbane to attain their player is similar.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Schulze is a luxury we may not have needed.

At Freo he was their best small forward but here he is one of 3 or 4 and he won't get the same supply.

I don't think he is an issue atm.

 

[sr36]

You only go off the compensation not the eventual outcome of the recruitment teams selections.

Crisp was a fringe player at the time. As was Ginnivan.

Our first is a gamble could be pick 5 or 15 yet.
If it ends up low then it's close to Beams compensation. There is no pretending, only denial by you and others its over paying for his type.
I stated that depending on finish position.
(Bobby Hill was smart trading and less expensive and at the time a need).

2nd round picks are 1nd round picks all have similar strike rates.

I agree with your first line, but you're trying to have it both ways, byy wating to see what our future pick becomes.

The reality is our future first last year was worth a heap less than most other teams future firsts due to expectations of how we'll go in 2024.

All parts of a trade are a gamble based on trying to guess the future. You value a player based on what you hope they can contribute in the future. You value a current year draft pick on what you hope to get from it in the future and future firsts are the same where you also have to factor in likely ladder finish in the following season.

I'm content with the trade - and will remain so even if we fall off a cliff - as I don't have a qualm with them thinking we'll finish high up the ladder in 2024. Plus I don't think we valued the 2nd round pick, because they knew we weren't that likely to use it anyway and weren't likely to be able to trade up with it. Those picks were only of value for academy points and they were getting them with bigger value pick swaps than we were in a postion to be involved in.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Schulze is a luxury we may not have needed.

At Freo he was their best small forward but here he is one of 3 or 4 and he won't get the same supply.

I don't think he is an issue atm.

Too early to say we didn’t need him but regardless of you being right or wrong, we might need him soon enough when Elliot starts to slow down.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Jordan De Crispwood was a great pickup for Collingwood.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Every other team in the AFL are working their backsides off to find a diamond in the rough when it comes to key forwards. But not us. We are totally risk-averse. I mean I did some research in terms of Joel Amartey who plays for the Swans. He was taken at pick 28 in the 2018 Rookie Draft. We had pick 6 & chose another midget in Flynn Appleby.

Huh? We do bring in project KPF’s.

The problem is that they don’t work out, people then forget they ever existed, and then complain we don’t recruit KPF’s.

Darean Wyatt, Will Kelly, Liam McMahon, Cory Gault, Tom Wilson, and Jesse White are recent examples.

If we didn’t have both Krueger and McStay out injured at the moment, nobody would be talking about lack of KPF’s.

 

[loki04]

Huh? We do bring in project KPF’s.

The problem is that they don’t work out, people then forget they ever existed, and then complain we don’t recruit KPF’s.

Darean Wyatt, Will Kelly, Liam McMahon, Cory Gault, Tom Wilson, and Jesse White are recent examples.

If we didn’t have both Krueger and McStay out injured at the moment, nobody would be talking about lack of KPF’s.

Have a look at the draft ranges for those selections.

Also White, Kreuger and McStay were all trades.

It looks like the club prefer to spend low picks on mids and flankers over KPP.

Think they run off the theory a role playing KPF is good enough and load up on mids/flankers.
It worked last year but I've never been a fan of the idea (ignoring high end drafted kpp in a lost build), nor has it ever shown to win multiple flags but there is a first for everything.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

That's basically what we got for Beams if you pretend all first round picks are equal, all second round picks are equal and Jack Crisp doesn't exist.

In the end Brisbane overpayed for Beams. DeGoey, Crisps and Greenwood >>>>> Beams. However we way over payed for 2019 Beams.

 

[sr36]

In the end Brisbane overpayed for Beams. DeGoey, Crisps and Greenwood >>>>> Beams. However we way over payed for 2019 Beams.

A lot of luck involved in outcomes. If youre judging trades by outcomes it's possible to trade fantastically by trading pick 1 for pick 10, if 10 ends up the better player. I think trades are good or neutral when they make sense with the available knowledge at the time.

To me the only one that I think was a shocker was 2020 - future first for two picks in the mid to late 20s in thr most speculative draft in history. That was about marketing - not footy

 

[greening22]

Huh? We do bring in project KPF’s.

The problem is that they don’t work out, people then forget they ever existed, and then complain we don’t recruit KPF’s.

Darean Wyatt, Will Kelly, Liam McMahon, Cory Gault, Tom Wilson, and Jesse White are recent examples.

If we didn’t have both Krueger and McStay out injured at the moment, nobody would be talking about lack of KPF’s.

I am sorry but you are really going back in time with most of the chaps that you have mentioned. I will get back to you with the exact years that these blokes were picked but Darean Wyatt was selected in about 2015 from a basketball background if my memory is at all accurate & I would imagine that Corey Gault was selected even earlier circa 2012/2013. As for Will Kelly, he was never a key forward & honestly if his name was not Kelly he would not have been picked up by the club. As for Jesse White he was a trade from Sydney & if my memory is at all correct that again would have been circa 2014/2015. Tom Wilson - from a basketball background, I believe - was never a key forward while Krueger is always injured & again was not drafted but traded from Grelong. As for McMahon, he is about the only young key forward that we have drafted since Cloke let the club at the end of 2016 & went to the Western Bulldogs for 1 year. No; he did not work out - he never put on any weight in the 2 or 3 years at the club which did not help his cause - but that does not mean that you do not keep trying to scour Australia & even Ireland (refer to GWS & Callum Brown) & elsewhere to find 1 or 2 young potential key forwards. By the way, McStay was not drafted at 18 but traded for an very big money at 27 or 28. BYE.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I am sorry but you are really going back in time with most of the chaps that you have mentioned. I will get back to you with the exact years that these blokes were picked but Darean Wyatt was selected in about 2015 from a basketball background if my memory is at all accurate & I would imagine that Corey Gault was selected even earlier circa 2012/2013. As for Will Kelly, he was never a key forward & honestly if his name was not Kelly he would not have been picked up by the club. As for Jesse White he was a trade from Sydney & if my memory is at all correct that again would have been circa 2014/2015. Tom Wilson - from a basketball background, I believe - was never a key forward while Krueger is always injured & again was not drafted but traded from Grelong. As for McMahon, he is about the only young key forward that we have drafted since Cloke let the club at the end of 2016 & went to the Western Bulldogs for 1 year. No; he did not work out - he never put on any weight in the 2 or 3 years at the club which did not help his cause - but that does not mean that you do not keep trying to scour Australia & even Ireland (refer to GWS & Callum Brown) & elsewhere to find 1 or 2 young potential key forwards. By the way, McStay was not drafted at 18 but traded for an very big money at 27 or 28. BYE.

Your quote “diamond in the rough”. We’ve tried it all - trading, drafting, Cat B. All with mixed success.

(Mihocek was a good get)

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

To me the only one that I think was a shocker was 2020 - future first for two picks in the mid to late 20s in thr most speculative draft in history. That was about marketing - not footy

Agree the only real shocker was that trade. I always thought it would be about pick 10 which was a really bad trade. It ended up being pick 2, that we lost for a few players in the 30's.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

To me the only one that I think was a shocker was 2020 - future first for two picks in the mid to late 20s in thr most speculative draft in history. That was about marketing - not footy

Try not to think about the fact that some of the people that trade was designed to appease, are also the people who jumped on Ash’s instagram account over the last few days…

[emoji35] [emoji35] [emoji35]

 

[unplugged]

Gee, lots of people sinking the boots in. We don't know where we're finishing on the ladder but anything 10+ for Schultz should be more than okay.

Yes with a 10-18 pick you might select a gem but go and look at the last few drafts in that range. Some players showing potential but not many would be in our best 23 yet.

If you could draft someone like Schultz who's plug and play and a 30-45 goal-per-year forward with a pick 10-18 we'd be praising Hine, even though he's not a KPP.

Patience really. We got dominated against GWS, he had limited opportunities vs Sydney (didn't touch it Q1, not for lack of trying) and he's playing in a new system.

If we did a 2021 and finished bottom 4 we've got bigger problems than Schultz!