Lacking Speed or just Lazy?

[davis_756]

Friday Night it looked like our players thought we had another bye this week and the only time we looked like clicking Davey sucked Jammo in with another dive the same as in round 3 vs thornton and then he had another 50m go harshly against him vs lloyd.

Essendon smashed us in contested ball while we just stood back and fumbled under the little pressure put on while they were diving in head 1st making us look second rate.

I am not worried about the loss but I am worried about how we lost. 5-6 weeks ago I thought we had a weakness against flooding/zoning sides so when we lined up man on man Friday night I was pleased, when we kicked a behind you could see how much it was effecting essendon turning it over out of defense every second time.

The problem for me was when they did get it out they just ran off us with ease and they were still able to get back and help out down back while their opponents were left flat footed in the middle of the two.

That made me think about what these zoning flooding sides do which is basically get the ball at half back and run and carry the ball back down their end.

The common theme with all our losses seems obvious now that we either don't have the pace to follow other sides or are just plain lazy and can't be bothered working both ways.

So my question is simple:

A) Are the players just to lazy and do we need to make an example of star players like Fevola and Judd who on friday night were both killed by their opponents the other way?

B) Is our side not capable or quick enough to improve its defensive pressure and if so do we need to start employing a sydney style flood or a hawthorn style zone to combat our lack of speed?

 

[The Cranium]

 

[wavefall21]

a) yes we are too lazy, we have no accountability at all, and unfortunately it has been the case for a long time, as good as judd is, he has to be criticised, the defensive aspect of his game needs to improve, when he's down, unfrotunately it always seems his opponent is hurting him the other way, eg mcveigh, doughty, welsh.....as for fev, well i've made enough observations about this dingbat to last a lifetime, he was pathetic, hindsight is a wonderful thing but if we had somehow dished off fev in the judd trade and kept kennedy i would have been as happy as anybody, why is he so dumb? when balls are bouncing his way and he's not getting free kicks he just gives up? why? does he want to be seen as a selfish player? does he want to pi.ss his teammates and fans off? how can u let ur opponent roam as free as pears did on friday night? that sort of attitude is a cancer at our club, and all the good he's done for our club is being outweighed by his disgraceful attitude

b) i think the quite simple answer is yes, we are too slow defensively so our only solution is to employ a flood/zone like tactic to combat the the lack of speed, i said after the loss to freo we should consider playing a shut-down style like sydney did in its premiership years, it might not be the prettiest football but for god's sake it won them a flag and they made numerous finals, it is effective in other words, what happen to the spirit we showed last year in the last quarters of matches? im telling you we have gone backwards since last year

 

[as0l0]

lazy as taught by nick stevens and accepted by brett ratten

 

[CUG81]

I think the team is inconsistent when it comes to moving the ball on quickly and keeping the ball in the forward line. Against some teams we have moved it on fast and managed to really punish teams whilst putting a lot of pressure on the opponents defence.

Moving it on fast as Essendon did should be done week in week out, and if that doesnt happen then our midfielders and other running players are to blame. Is it lazy or not making decisions quick enough?

I dont believe we need to have a bunch of Carl Lewis' out on the ground, but i think many players need to realise that the ball moves faster than a player and a team can look super fast and punish teams easily when it is used correctly.

However, with our forward, against Essendon we didnt have any fast players to put that pressure on the essendon defence. Betts cant do it alone and houlihan just isnt that type of player. This is why we need to persist with a Garlett, Yarran or Robbo. Young and inexperienced yes, but fast and good at chasing players down who are running out of our frowadr zone. That way teams cant get it out of defence so fast and run up the park and put the massive amount of pressure on our defence.

 

[transmed_999]

lazy as taught by nick stevens and accepted by brett ratten

 

[AlecDuncan]

Let's see how Essendon go against the Pies this week. They may have gotten themselves up especially for us and spent themselves. As for us, the week's rest, Elliott, and even Dick's memorial may have left the group a little mentally flat. Essendon got a training drill against Melbourne for their game back.

Essendon has lost to: Port Adelaide; North Melbourne; Brisbane; St.Kilda; Geelong; and Adelaide. All of which you'd say were slower than what Essendon showed on Friday night. I'd say it was more about the intensity and spirit they brought.

It doesn't help when our confidence and game are so brittle that a string of evil umpiring shatters them.

 

[mediumsizered]

Let's see how Essendon go against the Pies this week. They may have gotten themselves up especially for us and spent themselves. As for us, the week's rest, Elliott, and even Dick's memorial may have left the group a little mentally flat. Essendon got a training drill against Melbourne for their game back.

Essendon has lost to: Port Adelaide; North Melbourne; Brisbane; St.Kilda; Geelong; and Adelaide. All of which you'd say were slower than what Essendon showed on Friday night. I'd say it was more about the intensity and spirit they brought.

It doesn't help when our confidence and game are so brittle that a string of evil umpiring shatters them.

It is a very good point you make, AD. Geelong, outside of Wojcinski who is currently struggling to get a game, do not have players who are quicker than Lovett, Davey & Winderlich, yet pace is not an issue for them.

Intensity & spirit can slow down the quickest players, hence why Geelong absolutely smashed Essendon. Unfortunately despite the best efforts of Joseph to shut down Lovett, Lovett eventually broke away to have an impact late in the game because of the lack of pressure from our forwards & our midfield when Essendon had the ball. Eventually the flood gates opened because 18 players operating at full intensity will always overwhelm half a dozen or so players who are operating at similar intensity.

 

[thylacine60]

I kept waiting for the Bombers to run out of legs... didn't happen. 13 was going as fast in the last as he was at the first bounce. How old is Monica anyway?

 

[Just Kreuzing]

It is a very good point you make, AD. Geelong, outside of Wojcinski who is currently struggling to get a game, do not have players who are quicker than Lovett, Davey & Winderlich, yet pace is not an issue for them.

Intensity & spirit can slow down the quickest players, hence why Geelong absolutely smashed Essendon. Unfortunately despite the best efforts of Joseph to shut down Lovett, Lovett eventually broke away to have an impact late in the game because of the lack of pressure from our forwards & our midfield when Essendon had the ball. Eventually the flood gates opened because 18 players operating at full intensity will always overwhelm half a dozen or so players who are operating at similar intensity.

Agree with this but more importantly the Geelong blokes have a defensive mindset and chase, tackle and pressure in numbers because they support/sacrifice for each other. They will run an extra 20 yards to assist in this area where we have a few who only run the extra yardage when theres a chance to get a kick, handball or have an opportunity to kick a goal.

Our effort level when we dont have the ball is poor and is magnified because of some dreadful disposal/turnovers most of the time also, but unlike most other teams in the comp it is tolerated by our coaches.

 

[The Coach]

I kept waiting for the Bombers to run out of legs... didn't happen. 13 was going as fast in the last as he was at the first bounce. How old is Monica anyway?

AND they didn't despite losing their best midfielder after one Q and being down to 21

 

[wdgann]

Agree with this but more importantly the Geelong blokes have a defensive mindset and chase, tackle and pressure in numbers because they support/sacrifice for each other. They will run an extra 20 yards to assist in this area where we have a few who only run the extra yardage when theres a chance to get a kick, handball or have an opportunity to kick a goal.

Our effort level when we dont have the ball is poor and is magnified because of some dreadful disposal/turnovers most of the time also, but unlike most other teams in the comp it is tolerated by our coaches.

Whilst not speedsters, most geelong players are quick

 

[Cruddy]

I'm currently on hols in bali watched this game and could have sworn i saw the carlton team here on hols well. They were imposters bring the real carlton team back in.

Also why was garlett dropped? when he plays we play and look better, bannister maybe ok in Vfl but not in AFL

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Let's see how Essendon go against the Pies this week. They may have gotten themselves up especially for us and spent themselves. As for us, the week's rest, Elliott, and even Dick's memorial may have left the group a little mentally flat. Essendon got a training drill against Melbourne for their game back.

Essendon has lost to: Port Adelaide; North Melbourne; Brisbane; St.Kilda; Geelong; and Adelaide. All of which you'd say were slower than what Essendon showed on Friday night. I'd say it was more about the intensity and spirit they brought.

It doesn't help when our confidence and game are so brittle that a string of evil umpiring shatters them.

I also wouldn't be getting too carried away trying to emulate Essendon's game plan (which may sound silly after getting belted by 69 points).

One thing Denis Pagan had right was that to win finals and a flag you need to have a failriy simple robust game plan.

Whilst it may be exciting to watch ,I think Essendons all out speed and attack game plan, may collapse like a house of cards under finals pressure.

They were obliterated by Geelong and, despite what Bomber fans will say, I really don't think St. Kilda had a lot of trouble controlling it either.

 

[Jatz]

lazy.
we turn up expecting to win just because we have the superior list but it doesnt work that way

 

[gbatman]

are we too unfit? Yes.

 

[Azul]

'mentally weak' is the description I'd use.

Essendon were primed for this game but we were still on holidays. We then had a less than superb half from the umpires (such as Jamison punching the ball from Lloyd's grasp only for him to be awarded the mark and 50) which zapped all our confidence.

Quite simply, we had given up at half time. We just hadn't come to play. Going through the motions indicates the whole team had prepared poorly during their two week break. Notwithstanding the Bombers have the wood over us, point the finger elsewhere - the game was lost on the training track.

 

[bigboyblue]

A bit of the latter (there were some horribly lazy performances on Friday night) but more a whole lot of them having the wood on us mentally.

I'd suggest that the Bombers aspire to be as clean and quick through the middle (and at times are already as good/better) as the Bulldogs. Who have we smashed the last couple of times we've played them? Yep, those Doggies.

Honestly, if we're good enough to flog the masters, the fact we're getting smashed by the apprentices isn't because we can't beat them physically.

I'm not sure how you go about fixing a mental block that big, but I think Ratts could start by showing them our last quarter v the Dogs last year and telling them THAT is how you combat a running team.

I'm currently trying not to imagine the Bombers finishing fifth and us eighth...

 

[AlecDuncan]

Let's see how Essendon go against the Pies this week. They may have gotten themselves up especially for us and spent themselves.

Ahem.

 

[Blue Dimension]

In regard to this thread I think its 10% speed, 10% laziness, 80% game plan.

We looked fast against a strong St Kilda unit and yet were made to look sluggish against a lesser side in Essendon. Why? Take a look at the style of game in which we were able to play against the Saints in contrast to the Bombers game. We were continually kicking long to contests even leading upto half time and we were lucky that we were doing as well as we were with O'hAilpin and Fisher taking grabs on the wing and at half forward. The Saints game we were able to create run and carry and break the zone. This is vastly different to what we were able to achieve against Essendon.

In addition, you'll find that Essendon had a distinct plan to break our zone. Was watching from level 3 and the way they went about breaking us down was top class. They looked fast because they ran the ball constantly down the field and were able to weave their way through our defensive game.

All in all, imo, it has little to do with personnel, more so the way in which Carlton were beaten comprehensively in the coaches box.

Mind you it must be said, players need to constantly apply defensive pressure and there was a severe lack of that last week. Stevens being one of the main culprits.

are we too unfit? Yes.

So the best 4th quarter team in the AFL is unfit ... there's something new. It's got absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[The Coach]

I think tonights win by Collingwood supports your theory BD

 

[carltoninsider]

There is a few theories to look at here . 1 being it takes three preseasons to get upto AFL fitness standard . This is why young players tapper off . You guys need to know that this club was a mile behind others when Peagen left ' fitness wise. 2nd and this is my thoughts , many players change clubs and look to this as their super . We see it heaps here in WA at Freo . 3rd bring in kids and do the hard yards , this takes time be patient . When you win you look fast . 18 months ago this club was crapp . Dont expect 100% now ..

 

[WeninRome]

I think we just have too many passengers atm, once we lose about 5 or so players we will improve dramatically.

more than one game plan wouldn't go to stray either.