List Development Issues

[The_Wookie]

Because the kid is a genuinely good prospect, and when he gets his shot, it will be worth the wait. We'd all just like him to get a chance and not get shot down before he's even taken the field.

In fact, Id like to think all Carlton supporters would feel the same way about all our recruits.

 

[thylacine60]

He will play a few games maybe
You are deluded if you think a kid whose been injured three years and whose hardly played any games will be the answer to our FF problems in 2013

When did I say that?

 

[Silvagnis]

Next year we'll look like:

Tuohy, Jamison, Bootsma
Yarran, Watson, Gibbs
Simpson, Robinson, Lucas
Walker, Henderson, Garlett
Waite, Mitchell, Betts
Warnock, Murphy, Judd
Kreuzer, Carrazzo, Scotland, Mclean etc etc etc

looks like a damn good list to me.

So damn good, that Laidler can't get a game.

#pedant

B: Tuohy, Jamison, Laidler
HB: Yarran, Watson, Bootsma
C: Simpson, Robinson, Gibbs
HF: Walker, Henderson, Garlett
F: Waite, Mitchell, Betts
R: Warnock, Murphy, Judd

I/C: Kreuzer, Carrazzo, Scotland, Lucas

 

[The_Wookie]

You have supported my argument, Hawkins took years and so will
Levi and Mitchell and by the time they come on Judd, Carrotz, Simpson, Scotland will be done and dusted
Huge disconnect with our plAnning, why??

Lots of reasons we lost the final but if we had a gun power forward we could have snatched it

If we'd kicked straight we could have snatched it, if walker hadnt gone to ground instead of playing for the free we could have snatched it, if the umpires had paid two free kicks that very easily should have gone our way in the last 5 minutes we could have pinched it. Your making a very simple argument for what is essentially an innaccuracy problem in front of goal.

 

[Jeremias]

He will play a few games maybe
You are deluded if you think a kid whose been injured three years and whose hardly played any games will be the answer to our FF problems in 2013

But we would have won if he played on Friday night, right?

 

[1981]

How anyone can argue that we lost that game because we didn't have a key forward is beyond me.

There was one main reason why we ultimately fell short, and that reason was poor goalkicking.

We kicked 2 goals 9 behinds in the 4th and lost by 2 goals. Convert our opportunities at a higher rate in that last quarter, and we run away with the game and the 4 points.

We had a good enough structure and game plan on Friday night to give us more opportunities at goal throughout the game. That's without this all-conquering hypothetical key forward you speak of.

Sure, a dominant key forward would be great. Noone is questioning that. However you are completely delusional if you honestly believe the lack of such a player was the difference between us winning and losing on Friday night.

You have no idea at all
This is like footy basics
We kick poorly for goal because we lack a focAl point
Someone to straighten us up
Teams that kick badly for goal lack gun power forwards
Simple as that
That's why it's not about one game
Fevola all issues aside had us more efficient up forward
Now we kick to pockets as we don't have the confidence to kick to the hot spot
Lloyd, Fevola etc etc they mark and kick straigt, they straighten you up and make you more efficient
If we had a proven big forward in the WC final we might have snatched victory but instead we had undersized WAlker unable to be tall and strong and instead try to get a free

 

[The_Wookie]

You have no idea at all
This is like footy basics
We kick poorly for goal because we lack a focAl point
Someone to straighten us up
Teams that kick badly for goal lack gun power forwards
Simple as that
That's why it's not about one game
Fevola all issues aside had us more efficient up forward
Now we kick to pockets as we don't have the confidence to kick to the hot spot
Lloyd, Fevola etc etc they mark and kick straigt, they straighten you up and make you more efficient
If we had a proven big forward in the WC final we might have snatched victory but instead we had undersized WAlker unable to be tall and strong and instead try to get a free

we kick poorly for goal because we cant kick straight. Not to mentionour delivery to forwards this year has been appalling. The goals arent in the pockets and we're missing shots from 20 - 30 metres out on slight angles.

And the rest of your comment is just the same stuff rehashed. Poor kicking will cost us whether its going for goals or going inside 50. This year its costing us with both.

 

[1981]

But we would have won if he played on Friday night, right?

No we wouldn't
Because he's not a proven key forward in fact he is years off it
We don't have a proven key forward
That's the problem
Among many others
Huge disconnect, lots of young talls who will take years and an aging midfield core
Great planning not

 

[The_Wookie]

I think its wonderful you dont rate the up and comers in the midfield who WILL be there in 3 years. Murphy will still be there. Gibbs will still be around. Walker will be up and about. Ellard. Armfield. Boootsma. Your getting way ahead of yourself and seeing a bleak future that frankly does not exist.

 

[Silvagnis]

He will play a few games maybe
You are deluded if you think a kid whose been injured three years and whose hardly played any games will be the answer to our FF problems in 2013

If a KPF has the talent and attitude, why can't he step up in his third season?

Mitchell has the rest of the VFL season left to play to get confidence back in his shoulders.

Dawes became a regular in his third season and played his role to perfection as their second KPF. Took a spot from Anthony who had kicked 50 goals the previous year. Both Carlisle and Hooker appear to have gone past Pears at Essendon. I guess players can come from nowhere.

 

[thylacine60]

You have no idea at all

"I find it disappointing the manner which so many of you responded to this thread, no need to be smart arses, if you don't agree just say so and move on".

1981, oh the hypocrisy...

 

[zeeCFC]

His defensive pressure is poor bec he is a kid whose played bugger all footy for years so lacks the level of fitness required and probably has never been taught the importance of forward pressure til now so he is years away from being the answer

What is with all you BF posters and Mitchell??

I must've been hearing things when Squid was setting up our forward defense while on field last week and was chasing whenever he could, even got involved in a scuffle.

Also played a full match in his second game back.

Nobody is suggesting he'll win the Coleman, you're just taking wild swings as you go down.

 

[Peete]

So we all agree then

1. Inaccuracy has cost us time and time again.
2. A Person in the role of tall guy who can take marks and kick a goal is a good plan - Kreuzer/Hampson?
3. Injuries have been a serious issue this year.

and then the sidebar argument about what the nirvana option - namely why isn't our list exactly what we need right now - despite the above.

 

[Hus83]

So we all agree then

1. Inaccuracy has cost us time and time again.
2. A Person in the role of tall guy who can take marks and kick a goal is a good plan - Kreuzer/Hampson?
3. Injuries have been a serious issue this year.

and then the sidebar argument about what the nirvana option - namely why isn't our list exactly what we need right now - despite the above.

Kreuzer doesnt have the mits or the demanding nature to attract the football. Nil authority. Hampson and warnock are giant witches hats, just stop with that forward line experiment. Henderson has great play reading and a good lead but can't take a grab to save himself, stick to the back line. Waite needs to do the right thing and free up a list spot. Leaves you with walker/Thornton as decent sized forwards. Great recruiting that.
I can find gun forwards playing in every suburban game on the weekend who can sit in a goal square and mark a ball. How come we can't?

 

[thylacine60]

Kreuzer doesnt have the mits or the demanding nature to attract the football. Nil authority. Hampson and warnock are giant witches hats, just stop with that forward line experiment. Henderson has great play reading and a good lead but can't take a grab to save himself, stick to the back line. Waite needs to do the right thing and free up a list spot. Leaves you with walker/Thornton as decent sized forwards. Great recruiting that.
I can find gun forwards playing in every suburban game on the weekend who can sit in a goal square and mark a ball. How come we can't?

Why are they playing suburban?

 

[zeeCFC]

I can only imagine how bad this place was in the dark days...

 

[thylacine60]

Don't try, it will break your brain.

 

[mediumsizered]

Why are they playing suburban?

Obviously because the dozens of recruiters from AFL clubs are going to the wrong grounds. They need to start tapping into hus83's extensive recruiting experience.

 

[mediumsizered]

I can only imagine how bad this place was in the dark days...

I don't think you can. Not only were we crap on the field, but the off field carry on among the club's board members made for great reading on BF, particularly with Caro publishing an article every other week taking pot shots at our club. A number of posters were absolutely basking in our on & off field mediocrity back then.

 

[Omega Blue]

lets stop blaming the forwards and put more emphasis on the delivery, which has been shocking this year. Even lockett would have needed something to work with.

 

[Silvagnis]

Kreuzer doesnt have the mits or the demanding nature to attract the football. Nil authority. Hampson and warnock are giant witches hats, just stop with that forward line experiment. Henderson has great play reading and a good lead but can't take a grab to save himself, stick to the back line. Waite needs to do the right thing and free up a list spot. Leaves you with walker/Thornton as decent sized forwards. Great recruiting that.
I can find gun forwards playing in every suburban game on the weekend who can sit in a goal square and mark a ball. How come we can't?

Yawn.

Go find another interest if you only want to spout crap and whine.

 

[Krooooze]

We have been pretty unlucky with the fwd line issue. Why we put so much faith in Waite has me mesmerised. The guy can never, and never will, be durable enough to take us fwd. Obviously we know the issue with Rowe, Mitchell has been injury prone, Casboult still a project player but injured. We have not been able to get any continuity in our fwd line.

We def need to do something in trade week, we need to find a player whose either proven or is ready to take that next step. We can't rely on the players who are always injured.

 

[Peete]

pre apologies for lengh of post..

Take Cloke out of Collingwood and you have Carlton - might sound strange until you start thinking about the role(s) Cloke plays for them - even Swann says publicly - "Cloke is the most important player to Collingwood"

So - what does this mean?

The greatest failure/bad luck was the inability of the Club to manage Fevola's off field predispositions - when we traded a young Kennedy for Judd we filled a hole in Midfield 3X over. Judd to Fevola was a dream made in heaven combo. With Kreuzer/Gibbs/Murphy and Simpson/Scotland/Carrazzo etc all of a suden Carlton had something to build on - coming from a long way back. No more cameo wins - a team could be developed. Kennedy was difficult but teh correct decision - we had a Fevola and Waite - until then even Judd could no longer handle the Fevola factor.

* Imagine if we said to WC - you take Fevola we will take Judd - WC woud ahve JUMPED - but wh was t know what Fevola would end up doing ?

Out goes Fevola - and in comes a raw Henderson and an increasingly injured Waite. But we did recruit a few talls to develop- and where are they - on the injury list thsi year.

Imagine Carlton with 'a' Fevola in it last year - or even on Friday....but Fevola's dont grow on trees - the Fevola tragedy - undid a lot of plans - a lot. We were set to win two years ago - with a Fevola in the side and Waite in the side. I am sure that was the dream.

Now go back to last year- and the forwards had learned to kick goals without Fevola and Waite- an this year we had 3 talls in teh wings to blood.

A LOT of bad luck to digest in this years story gentlemen. Ratten has had to rejig and band-aid and cover a lot of holes...

If we get our fight back a top4 finish is still there. Even a top8 finish this year can see a team get to a Grand Final. But next year? minus the players we no longer need and with a fitter hungrier stronger list? - it is going to be a very good year - have no doubts.

We are not that far off the pace- I'd say 4 injured playes back with it an ability to kick a midfield runnign goal -and maybe 4 marks in our 50 a game- that is all it will take.

If Cloke doesn't sign - and i think he will - but if he doesnt - Collingwood will come crashing down teh ladder. Cloke is their go to take a pressure mark guy in their 50 AND their get of jail guy third kick on rebound - they are very predictable.

Hampson/Kreuzer/Warnock MUST be able to take those kind of marks or someone else.

 

[laminex]

You have supported my argument, Hawkins took years and so will
Levi and Mitchell and by the time they come on Judd, Carrotz, Simpson, Scotland will be done and dusted
Huge disconnect with our plAnning, why??

Lots of reasons we lost the final but if we had a gun power forward we could have snatched it

But we dont, so you play with the players you have. For **** sake some people have no idea and only want to kick the shit out of something for the sake of it.

We can not pull a power forward out of our ass's, our main forward is injured out second forward has cancer and our young third has just back from a long term injury. What the **** do you want the club to do.

Mouth off like you and still do nothing because nothing can be done.

Come up with and idea for the problem or you are the problem.

 

[Claypigeon]

Like the post Peete but maybe type a little slower in future. ..

I'm really hoping that we turn our fortunes around in the forward line. .. Sooner rather than later. ..

Current:
Walker - Lacking a pre-season and frankly playing selfish (possibly because he is concentrating on getting his own game right)
Garlett - Way down on form and must be one of many issue Ratts is pulling his hair out about (drop him and potentially push him backward versus keeping him and hoping he finds that spark)
Betts - Playing a lone role on occasions, wish he was a foot taller sometimes
Hammer - Not sure if it is delivery, form, overall team issue but hoping he finds what he appeared to have early doors this season
Hendo - Want him in the backline to release Watto to the third tall until Laidler returns to form but hoping he finds something up forward
Kreuzer - Perplexed about where it is best to play him, could make a great high half forward (does he need a rest?)
Collins - Could be handy as he gets more exposure and continuity

Options:
Thornton - Not the answer but would be handy at the moment
Luke Mitchell - I'd throw him in against Hawthorn and give him the baptism of fire. ..
Yarran - If Laidler can get back maybe throw him forward and omit Jeffie (if he doesn't come good)

Not Likely:
Waite - Mystery return date is a mystery. .. Would be handy as a third tall
Levi/White/Rowe - All going to be coming from a long way back, not likely a chance for anything this year

Could this be a decent forward line to try in a couple of weeks:

Collins/Walker* - Henderson - Garlett/Yarran
Hampson/Kreuzer** - Mitchell - Betts

* Rotating into the midfield/wing
** Fitness/Form pending

Would leave us with this as a potential backline:

Tuohy - Jamison - Laidler
Gibbs - Watson - Duigan

Add Thornton on the bench and that gives flexibility. ..