List Management - Excessive mids

[Nickos66]

Reginald Perrin you mis-remember (it has a name at your age) Danyle only led Freo in turnovers in 2014, he was 8th in the league.



http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/training-reports-season-proper.1049692/page-81#post-34659434

I was gonna point this out about 2-3 hours ago but it was far to entertaining to feel the need to interrupt.

 

[Moo]

Pearce is a line breaking mid and takes the game on - with our style of play, he is not expendable just because Harley is here.

He's a dead set shit set shot at goal though.

 

[Palmervich]

Pearce is a line breaking mid and takes the game on - with our style of play, he is not expendable just because Harley is here.

He's a dead set shit set shot at goal though.

Agree, wouldn't Mind seeing DP in the high half forward role this year, played there a couple of times late in the season and looked dangerous closer to goal! I would imagine Harley will be an upgrade on DP in his current role

 

[scon]

Tough little gadget as well;doesn't mind dirty hands.Occassionally atrocious,generally average kicking obscures plenty that's beneficial to the team.
I was one of many who thought kicking to be the strength of his game before he arrived.

 

[sproketman]

It is not just Mundy that he was deadset wrong about. His comments when we resigned Mcpharlin were also just ridiculous. Not to mention the comments on Ibbitson's 2015 form. His call to replace Pav with Bradley. in 2014. I could go on and on.

What were his comments on McPharlin being re-signed?

If they were that it was pointless, then he was proven right. McPharlin missed finals, and we didn't win the premiership. Him going around another year gave us nothing in the scheme of what we are trying to achieve.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

You're on dangerous ground there, Fred. Before you go calling people liars, get your facts straight. Clangers and turnovers are not the same thing for a start. Danyle also turns the ball over more places than inside 50. Why don't you just observe his performances with your eyes and mind both open.

The information that Danyle led the league in turnovers last year came from somebody with direct access to Champion data information.

I cannot find the turnover stat you are asserting anywhere.
Until you can provide it, I find it impossible to believe; based on my observations of his performance.
I will take this opportunity to remind you of a recent statement of Ross where he was referring to the hit and miss nature of players traded in or free agents moving between clubs. Included in the three most successful ones was Danyle Pearce. In Ross' view.
I will say it again, Ross rates him highly which can only mean he is doing what is asked of him.
Like I said in another post in response to yours, when Pearce is replaced by a better player, I will be happy.
That is progress, significant progress, if his successor can generate the same number of inside 50 that Danyle does and hit players on the chest each time. I don't believe this is going to occur anytime soon though, certainly not fom our recent batch of quality draftees. I can't conceive any of these kids getting anywhere near the possessions Pearce does within the next three years.
So like I said Reginald, if you can provide statistical proof about DP being the leading turnover merchant in the league, I will concede.
In the absence of that report, It is impossible for me to accept it as anything more than a general exaggeration, which happens a lot on this board.
I used the term porkies in an attempt to maintain some degree of civility between us. Seemingly you have chosen to not see the colloquial nature of it.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

I cannot find the turnover stat you are asserting anywhere.
Until you can provide it, I find it impossible to believe; based on my observations of his performance.
I will take this opportunity to remind you of a recent statement of Ross where he was referring to the hit and miss nature of players traded in or free agents moving between clubs. Included in the three most successful ones was Danyle Pearce. In Ross' view.
I will say it again, Ross rates him highly which can only mean he is doing what is asked of him.
Like I said in another post in response to yours, when Pearce is replaced by a better player, I will be happy.
That is progress, significant progress, if his successor can generate the same number of inide 50 that Danyle does and hit players on the chest each time. I don't believe this is going to occur anytime soon though, certainly not fom our recent batch of quality draftees. I can't conceive any of these kids getting anywhere near the possessions Pearce does within the next three years.
So like I said Reginald, if you can provide statistical proof about DP being the leading turnover merchant in the league, I will concede.
In the absence of that report, It is impossible for me to accept it as anything more than a general exaggeration, which happens a lot on this board.
I used the term porkies in an attempt to maintain some degree of civility between us. Seemingly you have chosen to not see the colloquial nature of it.

The stat from last year has been clarified above. Danyle was #1 for turnovers at Freo, but only #8 in the league. If you want to take solace from that, go right ahead.

I noted your use of the term, but calling it a porkie doesn't change the intent of your accusation that somebody is lying. The stats were provided from a good source with access to champion data which does record turnover stats.

Inside 50s are all very well if he's instructed to bomb it in, which I doubt, but anybody who actually watches our games will see Danyle get caught with the ball and create a turnover or miss a target with a handball and create another turnover. My point was that he is a turnover merchant and the stats back that up.

Danyle being one of our better trades/FAs in recent times doesn't really say a lot when you consider who else is in that group. If Ross rates him highly, then we are in more trouble than I thought.

 

[smokingjacket]

I was critical of Mundy several years ago. He has since improved his effort and performance. You'll have to remind me of my comments on re-signing McPharlin. Ibbotson's 2015 form was well below his usual standard and Kepler would have blossomed in Pav's absence had he stayed fit.

Your turn. Try to stay on topic and not be personally abusive.

Mundy has gone from a talented plodder to an All Australian quality inside/outside mid.

Ibbotson didn't have his best year for us in 2015.

Kepler Bradley showed potential as a Jarrad Roughead style Forward before doing his knee.

I think all of these are fairly spot on sherrif what's your problem?

 

[smokingjacket]

My personal opinion on Pearce is that it's more a function of how hard he works, constantly tracking back and forth at pace. He has the tank to do it but his disposal consistently gets worse through a game. Might be worth looking in to spreading the load in terms of defensive responsibility next year so that our key ball users are fresher to make good decisions and use it well.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

We don't have leading forwards, we just don't.
In consecutive years now Pearce has led the league for inside 50's. Because we do not have leading forwards it is clear Danyle's job is to get the ball deep into our 50. That is why Ross is obsessed with defensive forward work to lock it in.
Pearce is definitely doing his job. If he wasn't he would not have played in every game since he arrived.

 

[democritus]

Danyle's first half of the season was good. Second half not so much, but the same could be said for a dozen others.

For what it's worth, I don't think he'll be pushed out by Bennell. All of Hill, Pearce and Bennell can play in the same team.

Hill is more than capable playing as a distributor off half-back, whilst he's done it on the odd occasion this is a luxury we haven't been afforded in the past. I believe we will utilise his foot-skills on the rebound more often next year. Bennell can be a dangerous half-forward as well as a capable line-breaking mid. I'll also add that some of Danyle's best games have come when he's been allowed to play further up the ground as a part-time forward. His set-shot is horrendous, but he's a decent crumber of the ball. Unlike other blokes who seem hell-bent on passing it off to a team-mate in a worse position, you know Pearce will usually have a ping. The greater the degree of difficulty the more likely it seems that he'll convert his chances.

Mzungu, Suban and DeBoer are the first in line to be pushed out by the younger brigade.

 

[smokingjacket]

We don't have leading forwards, we just don't.
In consecutive years now Pearce has led the league for inside 50's. Because we do not have leading forwards it is clear Danyle's job is to get the ball deep into our 50. That is why Ross is obsessed with defensive forward work to lock it in.
Pearce is definitely doing his job. If he wasn't he would not have played in every game since he arrived.

It's an interesting point about the leading forward. Under Harvey and early Lyon we used Ballantyne as an outlet a lot but teams worked it out by putting a quick and taller opponent on him and now he either gets used more in the middle or purely as a poacher up forward which doesn't suit him as much. I thought Ballantyne played really well in the PF by playing that lead up forward role because he has the added benefit of having clever ball use and quick decision making.

 

[smokingjacket]

Mzungu, Suban and DeBoer are the first in line to be pushed out by the younger brigade.

Possibly Mzungu, maybe De Boer if we go with a different set up in the forward line that values pressure less but Suban is an inside mid.

 

[democritus]

Possibly Mzungu, maybe De Boer if we go with a different set up in the forward line that values pressure less but Suban is an inside mid.

I don't think he is though. Would rather we give DeBoer a go in the guts than Suban at this stage. Hard as a cats head, has better hands in close and is more suited to that negating role if we need to put the clamps on a particular player. I know Suban had a couple of run with roles, most notably on Nathan Jones, but it was such a mediocre year that ended with a pretty abysmal performance in the finals.

 

[smokingjacket]

I don't think he is though. Would rather we give DeBoer a go in the guts than Suban at this stage. Hard as a cats head, has better hands in close and is more suited to that negating role if we need to put the clamps on a particular player. I know Suban had a couple of run with roles, most notably on Nathan Jones, but it was such a mediocre year that ended with a pretty abysmal performance in the finals.

Whether De Boer could be a better option isn't the point. Suban is an inside/outside midfielder. He's shown in a couple of games like against GWS that he can get on the end of a chain and be damaging but he's programmed as a ball winner.

 

[AstonSouffle]

Which of our forwárds would you deem a leading forward ?
Danyle's instruction is kick long and high into our forward line.

D Pearce leads the AFL for I50.

Bloody oath his kicks are high. Anyone that knows anything about football would know loopy high kicks have never been acceptable.

I like to think the match committee knows football. They would prefer better kicks, if they seriously think that absolutely terrible kicks like the sort Danyle delivers in(and as you've said he delivers a buck load of them). Then question marks should be had.

It's always the same players that are a problem and it's not as if we can't replace them with talent we already have, people say 'ooh ahh the gameplan' but if the gameplan systematically shuts out skilled players and promotes unskilled ones then something needs to be reassessed.

Honestly I feel that first half blitz we had was because Lyon learnt a few tricks at the IR series off the other two coaches to slightly tweak it all, coupled with the pre-season.

 

[meima]

Bloody oath his kicks are high. Anyone that knows anything about football would know loopy high kicks have never been acceptable.

I like to think the match committee knows football. They would prefer better kicks, if they seriously think that absolutely terrible kicks like the sort Danyle delivers in(and as you've said he delivers a buck load of them). Then question marks should be had.

It's always the same players that are a problem and it's not as if we can't replace them with talent we already have, people say 'ooh ahh the gameplan' but if the gameplan systematically shuts out skilled players and promotes unskilled ones then something needs to be reassessed.

Honestly I feel that first half blitz we had was because Lyon learnt a few tricks at the IR series off the other two coaches to slightly tweak it all, coupled with the pre-season.

Get what you mean is like asking messi and Ronaldo in soccer to play defensive. They only do that if one of the player red card.

 

[sproketman]

When I get time I'm going to make a compilation of the 7-8 kicks Pearce turned over directly to the opposition in the PF. He was appalling. A finals failure for the third year running.

 

[Banker]

D Pearce is getting older, his speed will naturally decrease as well.

In theory HB should essentially make D.Pearce's life a dream, as now he will get an even worse opponent.

 

[manpurple]

Danyle's first half of the season was good. Second half not so much, but the same could be said for a dozen others.

For what it's worth, I don't think he'll be pushed out by Bennell. All of Hill, Pearce and Bennell can play in the same team.

Hill is more than capable playing as a distributor off half-back, whilst he's done it on the odd occasion this is a luxury we haven't been afforded in the past. I believe we will utilise his foot-skills on the rebound more often next year. Bennell can be a dangerous half-forward as well as a capable line-breaking mid. I'll also add that some of Danyle's best games have come when he's been allowed to play further up the ground as a part-time forward. His set-shot is horrendous, but he's a decent crumber of the ball. Unlike other blokes who seem hell-bent on passing it off to a team-mate in a worse position, you know Pearce will usually have a ping. The greater the degree of difficulty the more likely it seems that he'll convert his chances.

Mzungu, Suban and DeBoer are the first in line to be pushed out by the younger brigade.

I agree about Danyle playing more forward.
But I would argue that Hill's best spot is coming off the back flank but a lack of pace and delivery (only D Pearce is quick enough) meant that he was forced to play up the field.
In short adding Bennell to the team allows both to play more in their preferred position as Bennell plays a genuine wing position.

 

[manpurple]

Bloody oath his kicks are high. Anyone that knows anything about football would know loopy high kicks have never been acceptable.

I like to think the match committee knows football. They would prefer better kicks, if they seriously think that absolutely terrible kicks like the sort Danyle delivers in(and as you've said he delivers a buck load of them). Then question marks should be had.

It's always the same players that are a problem and it's not as if we can't replace them with talent we already have, people say 'ooh ahh the gameplan' but if the gameplan systematically shuts out skilled players and promotes unskilled ones then something needs to be reassessed.

Honestly I feel that first half blitz we had was because Lyon learnt a few tricks at the IR series off the other two coaches to slightly tweak it all, coupled with the pre-season.

I am not sure I agree with the main premise here.

The inability of the younger brigade to provide a decent alternative (to Pav) tall targets (and I do include all the rucks, Mayne and Tabs) means that everyone knows the ball is going to Pav. Now Pav's ability to out mark a double team is up there with the best of them, when he was in his prime but he seems to be back half a step in the speed department. Add to this the tendency for us to play a 5 man attack against 6 defenders with two of the best small forwards in the comp means that our plan seems to be; kick to a contest, spoil and crumb for goal. That's fine, but lace out passes to a player with either two on him or an intercept player in between (or to butter fingers Mayne) is not going to work. (Yes I can remember the number of times we conceded possession in the attacking 50 because we could not clear the intercept players.)
In my opinion it is entirely feasible the coaching panel has told those delivering into the forward line, "unless he is clear, kick high to the pack at the top of the square".

 

[Banker]

Danyle's first half of the season was good. Second half not so much, but the same could be said for a dozen others.

For what it's worth, I don't think he'll be pushed out by Bennell. All of Hill, Pearce and Bennell can play in the same team.

Hill is more than capable playing as a distributor off half-back, whilst he's done it on the odd occasion this is a luxury we haven't been afforded in the past. I believe we will utilise his foot-skills on the rebound more often next year. Bennell can be a dangerous half-forward as well as a capable line-breaking mid. I'll also add that some of Danyle's best games have come when he's been allowed to play further up the ground as a part-time forward. His set-shot is horrendous, but he's a decent crumber of the ball. Unlike other blokes who seem hell-bent on passing it off to a team-mate in a worse position, you know Pearce will usually have a ping. The greater the degree of difficulty the more likely it seems that he'll convert his chances.

Mzungu, Suban and DeBoer are the first in line to be pushed out by the younger brigade.

As long as Ross is our coach, one of these role players will have a place.

 

[Frigate]

Pearce is a line breaking mid and takes the game on - with our style of play, he is not expendable just because Harley is here.

He's a dead set shit set shot at goal though.

He makes the impossible shots look easy, and the easy shots impossible.

 

[Moo]

He makes the impossible shots look easy, and the easy shots impossible.

& the medium shots look ummmmmm medium.

 

[Nathan Patch]

He makes the impossible shots look easy, and the easy shots impossible.

D Pearce is arrogant like that it annoys me. His the sort of guy to attempt the impossible, or a stupid dribble kick rather then centre the ball and yes he misses easy ones anyway. Lets the team down. Mind you his not alone Ballas is another that is selfish around goals when he can pass off to an easier shot.