List Mgmt. List Management Thread

[Soggy2112]

Where are we at in the ruck department? The reports I’ve read regarding ROB are that he’s waiting to see where everything lands which suggests we’re looking elsewhere.

I really hate the idea of us getting Draper so I hope that’s not true.

Are we actually a sniff with Marshall, or were those rumours just based on him likely wanting out instead of any actual evidence? Marshall would be an upgrade but ROB is also fine and I’m not sure how much we want to spend to upgrade him.

 

[Viva la Mattner]

Where are we at in the ruck department? The reports I’ve read regarding ROB are that he’s waiting to see where everything lands which suggests we’re looking elsewhere.

I really hate the idea of us getting Draper so I hope that’s not true.

Are we actually a sniff with Marshall, or were those rumours just based on him likely wanting out instead of any actual evidence? Marshall would be an upgrade but ROB is also fine and I’m not sure how much we want to spend to upgrade him.

I have a horrible feeling we are getting Draper

With Essendon copping a pounding on and off field they would have been frothing at the mouth to announce he was staying for a good news story

Seems likely he is headed our way

Not sure how I feel about that

 

[Crow till I die]

I have a horrible feeling we are getting Draper

With Essendon copping a pounding on and off field they would have been frothing at the mouth to announce he was staying for a good news story

Seems likely he is headed our way

Not sure how I feel about that

Frothing at the mouth? - they are going to do a little dance of Joy if he leaves on big money and gets them Band 1 compo. I just hope Brisbane save us from ourselves here. We dodged bullets with Petty, Redman and even Clarry..can we do another Keanue Reeves from Matrix and dodge another bullet. I hope so.

 

[Viva la Mattner]

Frothing at the mouth? - they are going to do a little dance of Joy if he leaves on big money and gets them Band 1 compo. I just hope Brisbane save us from ourselves here. We dodged bullets with Petty, Redman and even Clarry..can we do another Keanue Reeves from Matrix and dodge another bullet. I hope so.

He's a fan fav

They aren't getting Band 1 compo

 

[Mutineer]

He's a fan fav

They aren't getting Band 1 compo

Well if he has multiple clubs chasing him there is that possibility given his agent can play off the two or more competing clubs.

 

[Velvet George]

So whether it’s contract year or McAndrew, either way it’s clear ROB has need motivation to lift his game, which is poor from a leader and is a worry if we give him a 3 year deal.

 

[Soggy2112]

So whether it’s contract year or McAndrew, either way it’s clear ROB has need motivation to lift his game, which is poor from a leader and is a worry if we give him a 3 year deal.

I think that’s perhaps a tad harsh. His work rate and effort around the ground remains the same week in week out.

What’s changed this year and is there when he is playing really good footy, is that he is taking his marks. I’m not sure how much that can be attributed to motivation.

I have a horrible feeling we are getting Draper

With Essendon copping a pounding on and off field they would have been frothing at the mouth to announce he was staying for a good news story

Seems likely he is headed our way

Not sure how I feel about that

He’s one of those players who I just don’t get the hype on. What is his big selling point?

Frothing at the mouth? - they are going to do a little dance of Joy if he leaves on big money and gets them Band 1 compo. I just hope Brisbane save us from ourselves here. We dodged bullets with Petty, Redman and even Clarry..can we do another Keanue Reeves from Matrix and dodge another bullet. I hope so.

Part of me hopes that we didn’t get those players because we pulled out when the price started getting higher. Would fill me with a lot more confidence.

 

[Coopers]

I think that’s perhaps a tad harsh. His work rate and effort around the ground remains the same week in week out.

What’s changed this year and is there when he is playing really good footy, is that he is taking his marks. I’m not sure how much that can be attributed to motivation.

He's tackling too. He's even been involved in play around the ground.
Which says to me the effort is higher cos he's getting into those situations.

If the effort was previously at the same levels then that means he's consistently had 40+ nightmare games in a row where he was doing everything right and it just didn't click. That makes no sense.

 

[Soggy2112]

He's tackling too. He's even been involved in play around the ground.
Which says to me the effort is higher cos he's getting into those situations.

If the effort was previously at the same levels then that means he's consistently had 40+ nightmare games in a row where he was doing everything right and it just didn't click. That makes no sense.

His average tackles haven’t really changed.

I think he’s a guy who has had periods of good form and periods of bad form all throughout his career. That’s pretty normal I would say, but I’ve never watched a game and thought he wasn’t putting effort in.

 

[MRB37]

He's a fan fav

They aren't getting Band 1 compo

AFL and a chance to prop up a Victorian side? Of course it'll happen.

 

[Eddie Murphy]

I think that’s perhaps a tad harsh. His work rate and effort around the ground remains the same week in week out.

What’s changed this year and is there when he is playing really good footy, is that he is taking his marks. I’m not sure how much that can be attributed to motivation.

With nothing to back this up, it does feel like he is pushing himself to get to hot spots for marks or aerial presence a lot more this year, which increases his marking and general “involvement”.

 

[WeeBlake]

He's tackling too. He's even been involved in play around the ground.
Which says to me the effort is higher cos he's getting into those situations.

If the effort was previously at the same levels then that means he's consistently had 40+ nightmare games in a row where he was doing everything right and it just didn't click. That makes no sense.

One thing I will never understand is why ROB goes inside f50. He’s a bad kick for goal. We have two capable f50 ruck contest players (Walker and TT). Wouldn’t he be better off loitering 50-60m out nearish the boundary, waiting to pick off a dump kick out of defence by the opposition? The old kick behind the play? I honestly do not get it.

 

[Soggy2112]

One thing I will never understand is why ROB goes inside f50. He’s a bad kick for goal. We have two capable f50 ruck contest players (Walker and TT). Wouldn’t he be better off loitering 50-60m out nearish the boundary, waiting to pick off a dump kick out of defence by the opposition? The old kick behind the play? I honestly do not get it.

I think a ruck has to on occasion push forward to keep their opponent honest. Picking when and where you do it is obviously the important part.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

ROB gets a lot hitout to advantage but a lot them go the opposition instead, more so than any other Ruck in the comp.

 

[Scorpus]

ROB gets a lot hitout to advantage but a lot them go the opposition instead, more so than any other Ruck in the comp.

FINALLY we get to see this information.

If only 25-30% of a ruck's hitouts are to advantage you want to make sure the other 70-75% aren't to the opposition and I've always suspected Reilly O'Brien is quite poor in that area

 

[Scorpus]

That data is also super interesting because it says O'Brien has had more sharks than hitouts to advantage. He's running at -5 total across the season

He has the second worst differential of the 19 rucks in the table

For reference, Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

34

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

operates at +40, Brodie Grundy

4

Brodie Grundy

Age

32

Ht

202cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.1

5star

HO

32.0

5star

D

16.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.0

5star

HO

34.6

5star

D

13.8

4star

K

5.2

2star

HB

8.6

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

20.6

5star

at +66, Jarrod Witts

28

Jarrod Witts

Age

33

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.8

4star

CL

3.3

5star

HO

31.8

5star

D

10.8

3star

K

5.9

2star

HB

4.9

3star

CL

3.4

4star

HO

29.5

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

3.6

3star

CL

0.4

3star

HO

8.0

5star

at +28, Tristan Xerri

38

Tristan Xerri

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

5.5

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

2.5

2star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

2.5

5star

D

5.5

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

2.5

2star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

2.5

5star

D

5.5

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

2.5

3star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

2.5

5star

at +39

 

[Vader]

ROB gets a lot hitout to advantage but a lot them go the opposition instead, more so than any other Ruck in the comp.

The top graphic is fair - the bottom one not so much.

What would be more interesting is the HTA vs Shark RATE, not totals. Totals are biased against ROB because he attends so many ruck contests, noting that he has 122 more hitouts than anyone else on that list.

 

[Scorpus]

The top graphic is fair - the bottom one not so much.

What would be more interesting is the HTA vs Shark RATE, not totals. Totals are biased against ROB because he attends so many ruck contests, noting that he has 122 more hitouts than anyone else on that list.

The bottom graphic is the entire club, not O'Brien specifically

 

[Vader]

The bottom graphic is the entire club, not O'Brien specifically

I'd still be interested to see the HTA rate vs Sharked rate. I suspect that it would show ROB's contests tend to be binary, with a relatively low rate of drawn/inconclusive contests.

 

[Scorpus]

I'd still be interested to see the HTA rate vs Sharked rate. I suspect that it would show ROB's contests tend to be binary, with a relatively low rate of drawn/inconclusive contests.

Good news! The article provides the data to calculate this



The way I've sorted it, the top players are much more likely to win to advantage in a ruck contest than have it sharked

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I’ve heard it all now …. ROB is some ultra talent whose form is dependant only on how hard he works

Pretty much the opposite is true , he always tries hard but sometimes that’s not enough due to low skill base

I think the biggest things related to his uptick in form are his confidence , good form of those around him , changes to ruck rules that suit him re able to cross over and body rather than jump , improved kicking from being in system so long and the confidence in his game has brought back his marking

I’ve never watched a game and thought - oh ROB isn’t working hard , his consistency of effort has always been sound and it’s always the way his teammates talk about him too

 

[Scorpus]

I’ve heard it all now …. ROB is some ultra talent whose form is dependant only on how hard he works

I think it's more that ROB is a very average player whose performance level drops below AFL standard when he isn't motivated to be his best.

There's also working hard and working hard. ROB's baseline level is always working hard to get from contest to contest. That doesn't mean he always works hard on his other skills

 

[Soggy2112]

Good news! The article provides the data to calculate this

View attachment 2370834

The way I've sorted it, the top players are much more likely to win to advantage in a ruck contest than have it sharked

The other interesting thing that this table shows is that there really is no correlation between having a good ruck and being a top side.

 

[WeeBlake]

Good news! The article provides the data to calculate this

View attachment 2370834

The way I've sorted it, the top players are much more likely to win to advantage in a ruck contest than have it sharked

Feels about right.

Now, how much of this is ROB’s fault, how much of it is our mids’ fault, and how much of it is our midfield/stoppage coach’s fault?

I honestly think it’s a bit of everything

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I think it's more that ROB is a very average player whose performance level drops below AFL standard when he isn't motivated to be his best.

There's also working hard and working hard. ROB's baseline level is always working hard to get from contest to contest. That doesn't mean he always works hard on his other skills

Yeah nah

He might be working smarter , not harder . Don’t get the 2 confused

‘Normal’ Rucks that aren’t talented freaks seem to peak at his age too eg Darcy Cameron was a real battler at Sydney and started playing good footy at 27 and is prob at his peak now at 30 yo