NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

[exe ex machina]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

A lot of hitches in these talks are not just players vs NFL owners. It's also very much owners vs owners. Small market teams vs large market teams, as there are a number of issues being raised regarding revenue sharing that the owners are squabbling over.

 

[drd23]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

A lot of hitches in these talks are not just players vs NFL owners. It's also very much owners vs owners. Small market teams vs large market teams, as there are a number of issues being raised regarding revenue sharing that the owners are squabbling over.

Which is what they were arguing about in 2006 when the last CBA extension was passed (i.e. the one they didnt like).

Its amazing that they cant seem to get this right.

 

[exe ex machina]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

I think any CBA, it's inevitable it'll always end up in dispute - the NFLPA and/or players and/or owners opting out, anti-trust lawsuits, lockouts, and settlement via federal courts. Even if they agree with this one, at some point it's going to collapse again several years later.

This one right now, imo i still think it'll not happen, the season will be lost, because all this trouble both the NFLPA and the owners went to in opting out/anti-trust lawsuits and all these massive lawyer fees both sides have sustained so far....they didn't come all this way just to end up back with a "win-win" deal.

There are many big market owners who are pushing to get rid of the shared revenue, don't care about some socialistic revenue sharing and competition, not held back by small market teams who don't care, don't contribute, and just exist to make profit for themselves (Bidwell, Brown, etc) and then skim off and freeload off the big market entities. There are many small market teams who see an end if the big market teams get their way, forced relocations, value of small market franchises drastically dropping if they were forced to sell, due to no revenue sharing, etc.

Then there is the anti-trust situation itself. All pro-sports, a CBA, is basically a way to circumvent and avoid federal labor laws happening in their sports. There are far too many labor issues affecting all kinds of players (elite or not) and congress always has an eye on intervening in the NFL/etc with regards to the anti-trust.

 

[JeffDunne]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Are we there yet?


Seriously, the longer this goes on, the more convinced I am the NFL have orchestrated this situation for one simple reason - to have the ability to limit losses this coming season.

Empty stadiums aren't a good look for the NFL. We saw last season plenty of teams struggling with ticket sales & with the outlook for the economy not good, the owners low-balling the players creates the ideal situation for the NFL.

Personally I reckon they'll still play a full season but I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of games being shaved off. Won't be surprised too it comes on the back of a deal the players would have agreed to months ago.

 

[drd23]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

but I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of games being shaved off

I sure hope not. There are some cracking games scheduled early in the season with Saints-Packers, Steelers-Ravens and 'Boys-Jets in the first week alone

 

[Dirty Bird]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

I sure hope not. There are some cracking games scheduled early in the season with Saints-Packers, Steelers-Ravens and 'Boys-Jets in the first week alone

They wont be lost.
Week 1 and 2 games are set to be re-scheduled after week 17 and before playoffs, while week 3 games are between teams who have the same bye week, they'll be placed in there.

It's week 4 onwards that will be lost if the lockout gets that far.

 

[mcgarnacle]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

I sure hope not. There are some cracking games scheduled early in the season with Saints-Packers, Steelers-Ravens and 'Boys-Jets in the first week alone

i havent looked, or even bothered to seriously scour tix yet, but I do hope Week 1 goes ahead when scheduled as I'll be in NYC that week. 10th anniversary of 9/11, final weekend of US tennis open, world emergency services games.............on further thought, i'll probably be lucky to get a room let alone tix to the game I reckon.

 

[mcgarnacle]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Thursday Night as a regular fixture sounds good. Breaks up the week a bit.

pretty much the opposite opinion from me personally.

but in terms of value for the league, particularly on network tele in the states, it's huge.

 

[camsmith]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

This rubbish is totally ruining it for me. Usually at this time of the year I'd be massively excited for the season...

Are we there yet?


Seriously, the longer this goes on, the more convinced I am the NFL have orchestrated this situation for one simple reason - to have the ability to limit losses this coming season.

Empty stadiums aren't a good look for the NFL. We saw last season plenty of teams struggling with ticket sales & with the outlook for the economy not good, the owners low-balling the players creates the ideal situation for the NFL.

Personally I reckon they'll still play a full season but I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of games being shaved off. Won't be surprised too it comes on the back of a deal the players would have agreed to months ago.

The NFL season is short enough as it is! Isn't the NFL one of the most attended leagues? Per game of course..?

 

[bender222]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

I've heard the NFL still get their TV rights money even if the season doesn't go ahead. Can someone explain why this would be the case? Surely if the NFL season didn't go ahead or even if a few games were cancelled, it would be a breach of contract and the TV networks would be able to claim damages? Unless there was some sort of exemption clause, but why would any TV network agree to that...a lockout would cost these networks millions.

 

[MarcusP2]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

They did agree to that. The reason - NFL is worth billions a year, and if you don't agree, then someone else will.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?sl...-doty-holds-hearing-on-lockout-insurance-case

 

[exe ex machina]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Interesting bits of info in this PFT article why recent talks keep breaking down. A lot of petty arguing on the pie.

A snippet...

That said, the article from Silver plows some intriguing new ground, reporting for example that Goodell last week “screamed” at owners after someone leaked to ESPN’s Chris Mortensen during the June 21 ownership meeting details of the proposed plan, such as the 48-cent formula and the plan to expand the Thursday night package to a full-season experience. Silver also writes that the players want a piece of the pie generated by the hosting of concerts at NFL stadiums.

 

[drd23]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

@evansilva Evan Silva
League source tells SI.com that players & owners are "in the red zone" of CBA talks. "We're driving, can see goal line"

http://bit.ly/ilNQIY

and

Josh Buchanan from JBScouting.com wrote:
Pauline says several NFL teams calling agents. I have been hearing the same thing for the last week or so. Teams say a new CBA is imminent

("Pauline" in the second tweet is Tony Pauline of SI.com)

 

[entourage]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Thanks drd ^ sounds promising.

If the deal isn't done within the next 2 weeks then the season is automatically compromised. Training camps start ranging from the 23rd July through to late July, depending on the team..and pre-season games start about a week into August (im sure you're all aware though).

I'm actually a lot more confident now than i have been about this whole thing. It seems like all the tit-tat crap has gone out the window (much unlike what is going on with the AFL atm) and they are getting dead serious because the NFL will lose a lot of money if the deal isn't done within 2 weeks. It was noted on sportscentre that advertisers will be put off if a deal isn't done by training camp, as well as the mass amount of money they'll lost if even one preseason game is cancelled.
Obviously players do want to play as well, so it just seems like both sides would be willing to meet in the middle now all the childish shit is out of the way.

Fingers crossed guys!!!!

 

[hayes]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

I watched NFL Live yesterday and I could've sworn they said a deal should be done by Saturday our time.

 

[Changamagic]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

I watched NFL Live yesterday and I could've sworn they said a deal should be done by Saturday our time.

Any hope for pre-season games I wonder...? Have tickets for Eagles vs Ravens pre-season game but don't like my chances...

 

[drd23]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

I watched NFL Live yesterday and I could've sworn they said a deal should be done by Saturday our time.

Well the court appointed mediator is scheduled to go on vacation on Saturday, so I hope it is basically done by then otherwise a big incentive to act in 'good faith' disappears until he gets back

 

[Woodson]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Yahoo NFL sources say:

NEW YORK (AP)—NFL owners and players may find themselves shifting to hurry-up mode as time gets tight to reach labor peace.

Although both sides say progress has been made in the last month of meetings in various locations, the prospect of postponing the opening of training camps grows stronger every day. Lawyers for the NFL and the players’ association sorted out contract language and details Wednesday for a second straight day, hoping it could speed the process in reaching a new collective bargaining agreement.

A person with knowledge of the situation told The Associated Press that attorneys met at a Manhattan law firm’s headquarters. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because a judge has directed that details of the court-ordered mediated negotiations not be disclosed.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and NFLPA chief DeMaurice Smith plan to return to the negotiations Thursday, along with several owners and players. They all know that some training camps are set to open in less than three weeks and the first exhibition game, at the Pro Football Hall of Fame inductions, is Aug. 7 in Canton, Ohio. The St. Louis Rams and Chicago Bears are scheduled for that game.

“Everyone’s back is up against the wall,” said economic consultant Dr. Jessica Horewitz, a director at Gnarus Advisors who consulted with Smith on the finer points of NFL labor before he was elected executive director of the players association. “The last few details of the contract have to be hammered out, but I believe the big issues are pretty wrapped up: the salary cap and revenue share with the players.

“I think it will be steady progress, and if we don’t have something by the 15th. I don’t think it will long after that.”

Marc Ganis, president of Chicago-based sports business consulting firm Sportscorp Ltd., and a keen observer of the league’s business side, also sees something getting done in the next week or so.

“They are now up against a hard deadline,” Ganis said. “July 15 is effectively a hard deadline to make sure to get all the preseason games in. If they go beyond July 15, you likely start losing preseason games and it means less money is available overall to do a deal to satisfy both parties.

“Once you start losing real and serious money that can’t be replaced, getting a deal done becomes much more difficult.”

Canceling a full weekend of preseason games would cost upward of $60 million in lost revenues. That lessens the overall income for the league that the two sides are battling over. Sure, players don’t get paid for the preseason (except for a per diem), but reducing the total pie certainly affects them.

Ralph Cindrich, an attorney and player agent who has been involved in every NFL labor dispute, believes neither the owners nor the players felt any motivation to close a deal until now. He cites late June and very early in July as normally a dead time in pro football, anyway.

“It is now that time when pressure has to be put on both sides,” he said. “This is just too strong of a business not to find a solution. You go worldwide and spend a month overseas, you can see how we are in a fragile economy, and to mess with this successful business will have a devastating effect.

“I do see it getting done, it’s too good a product not to get done. But I can see the tough owners taking it into overtime, causing a cancellation of the first preseason game.”

Hall of Fame president Steve Perry has said the game is being planned to go on as scheduled on Aug. 7.

There’s much more than opening up training camps and staging preseason games that must be straightened out soon. Free agency, for example. Depending on the rules, hundreds of players could become available. The longer it takes to reach a deal, the more frenzied the free agency signing period will be.

Teams still need to instruct rookies they drafted and sign rookies who were not selected in April. Those clubs with new coaches haven’t been able to install offenses or defenses or learn unfamiliar playbooks.

General managers don’t know what the salary cap will be; 2010 didn’t have a cap.

The regular season is scheduled to begin Sept. 8 with New Orleans at Green Bay.

“They are within a range on almost everything,” Ganis said, “and 48 hours of continued serious negotiations could get it done.”

source: NFL Yahoo

 

[Shane Hird]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

They better all come together and get things going fast.

I'm not spending this summer watching cricket..

 

[entourage]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Talks today went far worse than expected, to resume on Monday...getting awkwardly close to pre-season now

 

[Tassie19Cairns20]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Talks today went far worse than expected, to resume on Monday...getting awkwardly close to pre-season now

Really? What happened? From everything I've been hearing/reading, is that this is the most positive situation both sides have had with each other in a long long time. A lot of people are thinking that July 15 could be the day the deal gets done.

 

[drd23]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Talks today went far worse than expected, to resume on Monday...getting awkwardly close to pre-season now

I wouldnt take too much stock in the day to day progress of it. I also wouldnt say that not making progress is the same as going "worse than expected"

Really? What happened? From everything I've been hearing/reading, is that this is the most positive situation both sides have had with each other in a long long time. A lot of people are thinking that July 15 could be the day the deal gets done.

Its not that bad. Things didnt progress has much as expected, but most are still reporting a likely agreement by the end of next week (so that preseason games aren't missed).

 

[drd23]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Some news on a potential timeline for the end of the lockout
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6756301

There is a growing belief inside league circles that the NFL and NFL Players Association will have an agreement in place that can be ratified during the July 21 league meetings in Atlanta, according to sources familiar with the state of negotiations.

Here is how the outlined plan for a July 1 deal could be adjusted for a potential July 21 deal with what would be the corresponding dates, according to sources familiar with the document, which many teams in the league have not yet seen:

• July 1 (July 21) -- Educate the clubs on the new league rules and allow voluntary training for teams and agents.

• July 5 (July 25) -- Sign undrafted rookies, as well as give free agents a chance to re-sign with their teams.

• July 8 (July 28) -- League year starts and free agency begins.

• July 13 (Aug. 2) -- Rosters must be set at 90 players.

• July 14 (Aug. 3) -- Deadline for restricted free agents to sign offer sheets.

• July 18 (Aug. 7 ) -- A four-day match period for teams to match restricted free-agent offer sheets.

• July 23 (Aug 12) -- Deadline for rookies to sign contracts (not yet agreed upon).

• July 27 (Aug. 16) -- Signing period for restricted free agents ends, as does the signing period for franchise and transition tenders.

• Aug. 9 (Aug. 29) -- Deadline for players to report to earned credit for an accrued season toward free agency.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6756301

The last hold up seems to be the rookie wage scale

Yet the disagreement over a rookie wage system for those who were drafted in late April is now the darkest cloud hanging over negotiations that are nearly complete on most major issues.

"The rookie wage scale is the only part I'm worried about," one source involved in the talks said this weekend. "They've finished the other important parts. The only issue left that can cause a problem is the rookie wage scale."

----------------------------------

This timeline is going to suck for the Rams and Bears as they play the first pre-season game (the Hall of Fame game) and their camp is due to start on July 23 (when there still won't be any new players on the roster)

 

[Sven]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

MY guess is that a July 21 CBA date would mean some of the pre-season is in doubt, especially the HOF game. A 2 or 3 week pre-season would be likely under that scenario.

Game 4 in the pre-season is pretty much a non-event anyway so cutting it down from to 3 games would be pretty easy. A 2 game pre-season wouldn't be ideal, but at least the teams would have more times to put together their teams.

The players that are really disadvantaged with the delay are the undrafted rookies, becuase they won't have a lot of time to impress management that they're deserving of a roster spot - things must be looking grim for anyone in that boat.

 

[drd23]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

The problem with losing a weeks worth of pre-season games is that it could lead to as much as $200m of revenue being lost (through advertising and the like), so I think the NFL would push for as many games to be played as possible.

That said, I dont see how an 8-14 day TC before the HoF game (on Aug 7) would work