Lucas and Lloyd. Never in the same team again!

[Ari]

Lucas is s embarrassed to be out there and doing so badly. He doesn't want to look like an idiot so is nervous and being nervous he's not playing his natural game so is looking like an idiot. It's a bad spiral.

Knights needs to send him to the magoos for two weeks to get his confidence and game back. Then bring him back in when he's running. He will be SO much better for it.

While he is out Neagle should come in and play with Lloyd. We have 4 KPP's. Lloyd, Lucas, Neagle and Gumbleton. In that order too.

I strongly believe we should NEVER play Lloyd and Lucas in the same team again. I say this as a general rule, obviously dependent on injuries, that we should play one senior and one kid.

Right now Gumbles is out with an injury but Neagle should be playing. True he needs to earn a spot but playing our senior guys and leaving Neagle in the VFL is not helping him. He should be guided by and watching Lloyd.... not on TV, but in the same forward arc.

My two cents. Discuss....

 

[warney7]

To say that Lloyd and Lucas should never be picked in the same side again is a massive call.

I don't think there is any need for radical changes and I don't think Neagle needs to be rushed into senior footy.

Scott Lucas is working hard and while his confidence is down, he just needs to take a grab and kick a goal to get things started.

My opinion: Let's not be over-reactive.

How much longer can we wait? I'd say a couple more rounds at least and it all depends on what Neagle is doing in the 2nds.

 

[Boucks09]

I subscribe to the theory that players must earn their positions in the seniors. If that rule is broken it teaches the player nothing about hard work and what is required to be successful at the highest level. We are seeing this with Bachar and Jetta at the moment, and it paid off with Leroy on the weekend with his work ethic in the last 5 minutes.

Neagle doesn't play until he deserves to. He still clearly doesn't have the conditioning to play 4 quarters hence why he is being moved to the backline at Bendigo to improve his fitness. Lucas is still working hard, running out games and creating opportunities and has the runs on the board to show that he can make the most of it. Neagle has neither.

I'm all for playing the youngsters with the senior guys (it is workng well with Fletch and the backline), but not until the players have earned their position.

 

[Enki]

True he needs to earn a spot but playing our senior guys and leaving Neagle in the VFL is not helping him.

And yet playing Neagle in the senior side didn't help him or the side. He isn't match fit and becomes a liability running the other way, and he isn't dangerous enough as an offensive weapon to counter or offset this deficiency. Getting 4 possessions and a couple of shots on goal isn't god enough.

Lucas isn't playing that well and the future of of forward line is looking less certain all the time so there is plenty of opportunity to get games, it's up to Neagle to stand up in the VFL and really have and impact and from all reports he simply isn't doing that. You were right all the way up until the word "but".

 

[swoodley]

I subscribe to the theory that players must earn their positions in the seniors. If that rule is broken it teaches the player nothing about hard work and what is required to be successful at the highest level. We are seeing this with Bachar and Jetta at the moment, and it paid off with Leroy on the weekend with his work ethic in the last 5 minutes.

Neagle doesn't play until he deserves to. He still clearly doesn't have the conditioning to play 4 quarters hence why he is being moved to the backline at Bendigo to improve his fitness. Lucas is still working hard, running out games and creating opportunities and has the runs on the board to show that he can make the most of it. Neagle has neither.

I'm all for playing the youngsters with the senior guys (it is workng well with Fletch and the backline), but not until the players have earned their position.

Couldn't have said it better if I tried

 

[Spikey]

Is Neagle in better form than Lucas?

Didn't think so.

 

[Tambu]

Discuss....

Lucas and Lloyd stay put. That's bout it.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

I'm leaning towards Lloyd and Lucas not being able to play in the one side anymore.

Lack of mobility and no contested marking is a real worry.

The problem lies with Neagle's poor form at VFL level though. He's not putting any selection pressure on.

The only thing we can do is hope that at AFL level with better delivery and supply Neagle will be able to snag a few goals. Maybe he improves around better skilled players. We've seen him make an impact a few times but it's only been for a quarter or a half.

At the moment though it's Lucas in for another week for me.

 

[bomberstomake8]

got to say i disagree with you,

neagle needs to learn a lot more before getting a senior game....
1. he is too lazy (he doesnt chase and put on any defensive pressure)
2. he gets in the way of everyone else (i cant remember how many times i have seen him run and get in the way of other forwards who are in better positions
3. he seems to play from behind too much

if he fixed these problems which can be easily addressed if he listened to his coaches then he could be a very good player. until then he would be a huge liability in the side, and i for one want to see us play finals this year.

everyone is currently mounting the abuse towards lucas but he is definately not a liability. He hasnt troubled the scorers but has worked hard up the wings and cosntantly provides an option, he has at least created a contest up forward and he drags the 2nd best defender and other defenders away from lloyd. he will come good just as lloyd has done and he needs to be persisted with. bringing in neagle is not what the team needs. he currently is a liability

 

[Bombers Fan]

We won without Lloyd and Lucas having much of an impact, meaning our midfield and small forwards were kicking goals. Imagine if that keeps happening and Lloyd and Lucas do find form. Top eight. We are here to stay.

 

[Tambu]

It only takes one mark and goal to lift a player's confidence. Lloyd and Lucas, even in bad form, are finding a lot of the footy and having opportunities and setting up goals. You don't send a Lucas or Lloyd to the VFL, especially with a senior team full of kids and lacking experienced players. I think it'll make it harder for them to turn things around in the VFL.

They are champs and leaders of this club, they're the sort of blokes that answer the critics. Can't believe some people on here have memories like gold fish.

My tip: They'll rise for the occasion this week for Fletch's 300th.

 

[bomberz08]

i disagree. Neagle hasn't got fantastic form, so it would basically be the same as having lucas. Lucas adds experience and although he didn't kick any goals, i thought he was ok in the second half.

 

[Rack Watts]

To lazy to post, please read my mind regarding this subject.

 

[yaco55]

We need to sit back and be patient.

Once Hurley and C.daniher are back from injury we have more flexibility in the team.

Dont be surprised to see one of them play forward.

 

[rainman06]

Lloydie has been a bit hit and miss....but was bravely carrying an injury on saturday and was good 2 in a row before that. So he is doing OK.

Scotty is getting close to unacceptable territory. I mean what he is doing now is technically unacceptable but i mean your-playing-for-Bendigo-unacceptable. I know what he is capable of but he just simply needs to lift.

But as earlier stated....there is no viable replacement for him ATM. I like the idea of making players earn their spots more than we have in the last few years.

 

[Ants]

Lucas is s embarrassed to be out there and doing so badly. He doesn't want to look like an idiot so is nervous and being nervous he's not playing his natural game so is looking like an idiot. It's a bad spiral.

Knights needs to send him to the magoos for two weeks to get his confidence and game back. Then bring him back in when he's running. He will be SO much better for it.

While he is out Neagle should come in and play with Lloyd. We have 4 KPP's. Lloyd, Lucas, Neagle and Gumbleton. In that order too.

I strongly believe we should NEVER play Lloyd and Lucas in the same team again. I say this as a general rule, obviously dependent on injuries, that we should play one senior and one kid.

Right now Gumbles is out with an injury but Neagle should be playing. True he needs to earn a spot but playing our senior guys and leaving Neagle in the VFL is not helping him. He should be guided by and watching Lloyd.... not on TV, but in the same forward arc.

My two cents. Discuss....

I've got feeling this thread will be brought back up before the season's end.

 

[daffo]

You pick the side depending on the current form of the players. Lucas isn't up to it at the moment, but hopefully he'll get back. To say we'll never play Lloyd and Lucas is beyond silly, they are both champs and could turn a game.

 

[Sealz]

At the moment I still think that Lucas is a better option then Neagle…. He is presenting well… he had 8 grabs on the weekend and is running/contesting the ball creating crumbs for the likes of Davey, Jetta etc…. I’m confident he will return to somewhere near his best… and the experience of these older guys shouldn’t be underestimated in such a young team….

As for Neagle…. I’m not convinced… he’s like Courtney Johns Mark 2…. Bulky and slow with the turning circle of QE2…. Lucas brings more to the team at this stage….

 

[Ari]

Thanks for the open and honest opinions.

Most are disagreeing but that's okay. Many have said that Neagle has to earn his spot. I'll turn that around and ask whether Lucas has earnt his. He's played 8 games this year and done not a lot. Yes he took a few good grabs and had a couple shots at goal on the weekend but his job is to convert.

If it's a confidence thing then I still maintain he will be better for playing VFL. From Neagles point of view. He is probably sitting there wondering what he needs to do to get a game. Watching Lucas do bugger all and asking why hes' still in? Lucas is probably auto pick inside our 22 but if he's not playing well then you have to question that.

Will be interesting to see how we continue!!! Let's hope we can get some forward line selection pressure.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

From Neagles point of view. He is probably sitting there wondering what he needs to do to get a game. Watching Lucas do bugger all and asking why hes' still in? Lucas is probably auto pick inside our 22 but if he's not playing well then you have to question that.

How about getting more than 5 possessions in total over 2 games and then missing one with concussion. Apparently poor in his last VFL game also.

I'm pretty sure Lucas will be wondering what on earth is going on if a guy that is barely troubling the stats sheet at VFL level gets a game ahead of him at AFL level.

 

[B-Bomber]

Thanks for the open and honest opinions.

If it's a confidence thing then I still maintain he will be better for playing VFL. From Neagles point of view. He is probably sitting there wondering what he needs to do to get a game. Watching Lucas do bugger all and asking why hes' still in? Lucas is probably auto pick inside our 22 but if he's not playing well then you have to question that.

Will be interesting to see how we continue!!! Let's hope we can get some forward line selection pressure.

Well, for one his impact on the game at VFL level has to at least exceed Lucas' impact on the game at AFL level which according to reports, its debatable.

I think Lucas in part is a victim of his own standard -- 12 months ago most people would have rated him as our best player. He was in the best form of his career in 2007 and was having a blinder of a preseason (remember those one two handball super goals he kicked in the NAB cup??).

His form this year hasn't been up to his lofty standard but he has been doing a helluva lot more then Neagle was. Scotty is my favorite player so it kills me to see him struggling to recapture his old form -- I don't think he will be able to (), but he should be able to at least get back to where he was last year when he returned which was quite servicable in comparison to so far this year.

 

[rines]

Novel idea: bring in another mid size/small forward/mid and drop Lucas. You can not keep picking a guy because "he will come right"...

I think Lucas and Lloyd could play in the same team again if scotty finds some form.. but atm.. no.. definately not.

It was our 'small' brigade that kicked our score on Sat so it is not unreasonable to suggest that lloyd down there with maybe mcphee at CHF could work..

 

[loopy_cam]

To lazy to post, please read my mind regarding this subject.

Will do...

...


... Why would we play Fletch at full-forward, move Dyson to full-back and play Monfries in the ruck? Makes no sense. You're a poor judge of football.

 

[monty1104]

We need to sit back and be patient.

Once Hurley and C.daniher are back from injury we have more flexibility in the team.

Dont be surprised to see one of them play forward.

You will be waiting a while, considering he has been retired for 12 years

 

[windyhill]

They seem to have gone ok together the last 12 or so years. So Scotty is struggling and they are never to play together again ? Ridiculous. Low on confidence Scotty, was not the worst v collingwood. Not one of your better ideas Ari.