Making the tough decisions

[heartbroken]

I know I will get canned for this but here goes....

Two passages of play on the weekend are still strong in my mind. Tuck and Couglan in separate passages of play streaming through the 50m line on the run kicking for goals. Neither slotted them.

IMHO, skill around the midfield is something that Richmond are really lacking. Sydney showed us up by their absolute polish in hitting targets. I know Tambling will show skill and Deledio is skilled but we still need more skill to allow good rotations.

At season end, Richmond should look hard at their in-and-under players who have suspect skills and decide whether we could afford to trade any of them off for a highly skilled player.

In light of Axel improving by the week, ditto Hyde and in light of Polo looking to be an outstanding prospect, Richmond should trade the likes of a Tuck or Couglan to obtain more skill within our midfield rotation. Someone that CAN run through the 50m arc and kick a goal more times than not. Absolutely no disrespect to either Tuck or Couglan but they dont have this ability.

Let the canning begin

 

[The Griffenator]

You dont trade away guys like Tuck or Cog's, although if you offer them around you will get plenty of takers.

Scott West is f.....ing ordinary at taking a shot for goal on the run from the 50, or 40 and sometimes even 30, but we would not get rid of him. Yes you need flashy players like pett's or Tambling, but you need the work horse to get the damn thing. If they occasionally get the chance to take a shot from 50, you close you eyes and hope

 

[CoggaRules]

i see you dont factor in that Cogs was put to the sword by TW in manning Goodes. I would suggest, when you are spent, running aroung the ground, being outmarked and outrun, without a half decent rest, you are unable to really put the foot down and kick with penetration, especially when you are managing OP. Gotta feeling, Cogs and Tucky, not only had to fight goliath, but since there were a number of other options, chiming in and getting leather poisoning, such as Pets and Tiv, you can see, you can only do so much.

 

[tugga]

I don't reckon we'd get much for Cogs anyway. Not that I don't rate him...I just don't reckon we'd get a lot. Don't give away Tuck. No way.

 

[True Thylacine]

As decrepit aand aged as I am, I have learnt the new speak. What in my day were 100 percenters and receivers are now inside and outside midfielders. Tucky and Cogs are both inside players and its not their role to do that stuff repeatedly but to get it to someone "outside". Its more an indictment on Saturdays structure that these guys were in that capacity you mentioned. That said, Tucky is pretty steady with his kicking usually.

 

[Weaver]

I think the key is pressure.

If our midfield is on top, with lots of guys sharing the workload, pressuring the opposition, and creating loose men ... then our skills will 'magically' look better.

In contrast when we are being beaten, the opposition are putting every kick under pressure and we have 1-2 contributers, then our skills will look dire.

I think we need to get more midfielders who can contribute before we worry too much about the quality of the guys we have.

After Coughlan, Tuck and Johnson we fall away rapidly for one reason or another. It is just not enough depth to compete with good teams.

 

[jko'neal]

Making tough decisions was not on Terry Wallace's mind on the weekend, to play Maguane in his first game was a disgrace against a group of players like that. A young under developed lad sent to the slaughter and entirely not his fault.
Just as bad was playing Cogs on Goodes, OMFG!

If Knobel and Pattison were fit enough to play for Coburg they should have played AFL on the weekend. Even if Simmonds had to be sent down back (which he did on a number of times over here at the Dockers), Stafford and Knobel could have rucked.
Having a few extra bigger guys with AFL experience would helped with state of mind before the start of the game on Saturday.
As far as the Tuck and Cogs comments, all the top sides have goal kicking onballers. Ours are far and few between, I have seen Tuck kick goals but in all honesty have yet to see Cogs kick one or kick over 40 meters for that matter.

 

[Bentleigh]

Take Cogs & Tuck out of the side and we would have lost by 200 points.

I know a KPP next draft would be nice but you'd have to have a look at a Gibbs or Selwood come our pick if they were still around wouldn't you?

 

[1980]

I think the key is pressure.

If our midfield is on top, with lots of guys sharing the workload, pressuring the opposition, and creating loose men ... then our skills will 'magically' look better.

In contrast when we are being beaten, the opposition are putting every kick under pressure and we have 1-2 contributers, then our skills will look dire.

I think we need to get more midfielders who can contribute before we worry too much about the quality of the guys we have.

After Coughlan, Tuck and Johnson we fall away rapidly for one reason or another. It is just not enough depth to compete with good teams.

You consider yourself and are considered by some of the true believers on this board as some kind of authority on the club and maybe the game.

Sometimes you earn the title with posts like these.

The key is pressure. Pressure is what the Swans dealt us on the weekend.

 

[Jono]

When Tucky and Coughlan were owning it last year we were winning games. I see why you think that one of them should go, and to be fair you've presented a balance view, but I just don't agree. Tuck and Coughlan have plenty of years left, and I reckon we'll just wait for Deledio and Tambling to mature, that's where our skill will come from IMO.

 

[jezza]

Take Cogs & Tuck out of the side and we would have lost by 200 points.

I know a KPP next draft would be nice but you'd have to have a look at a Gibbs or Selwood come our pick if they were still around wouldn't you?

Nope, I'd still go the tall. We have the midfielders in our team now, we just need to be patient and let them develop so we finally have a full rotation. No Stafford next year, who knows how long Richo has left. Who do we have to replace them? So far Hughes, maybe Patto. We need that second gun tall forward and this is the year to get them.

 

[Weaver]

Nope, I'd still go the tall. We have the midfielders in our team now, we just need to be patient and let them develop so we finally have a full rotation. No Stafford next year, who knows how long Richo has left. Who do we have to replace them? So far Hughes, maybe Patto. We need that second gun tall forward and this is the year to get them.

Depends a little on who is available. Hansen and Thorp are quite similar to Hughes. I'd take Gibbs ahead of either of them. Having a guy like Gibbs would make it harder to zero in on Deledio making The Brett even more lethal.

On the other hand Gumbleton would be a really good get. Schulz is the gorilla in the goal square, Hughes the mobile Ash Hansen / Tarrant type who leads out to the wings and covers acres. Gumbleton is the perfect guy to add to those two as a genuine CHF who would complement the other two.

Schulz-Gumbleton-Hughes would be a bit handy in 3-4 years time. Going to be very very hard to say no to that.

 

[jackson_rules]

Depends a little on who is available. Hansen and Thorp are quite similar to Hughes. I'd take Gibbs ahead of either of them. Having a guy like Gibbs would make it harder to zero in on Deledio making The Brett even more lethal.

On the other hand Gumbleton would be a really good get. Schulz is the gorilla in the goal square, Hughes the mobile Ash Hansen / Tarrant type who leads out to the wings and covers acres. Gumbleton is the perfect guy to add to those two as a genuine CHF who would complement the other two.

Schulz-Gumbleton-Hughes would be a bit handy in 3-4 years time. Going to be very very hard to say no to that.

we still need a backline

 

[cairo tiger]

granted one key is pressure but shouldnt we look at skills under pressure and in pressure situations? why do we cough up the ball often...we do not have the skills under pressure...for so long we have had guys who could run, who could pressure but where were thier skills...what has the training staff done with that component over the years? forsaken it for guys like sziller....you can carry one of these lokes but not all...really lets ahve a look at the current crop....johnson, kellawy, gasper, chaffey...they are turn over kings with poor disposal and decsion making....their skills under ressure are poor....tuck and coghlan are tough but theyneed bloes like tambling, delidio, hyde etc carrying them with skills...if they turn it over we are really under the pump....we need to get an even spread so wehn we rotate we can carry the ball, run it, dispose of it under pressure

 

[Darth_Tiger]

gumby gumby gumby i want gumby!!!

 

[Bentleigh]

we still need a backline

The like of JON, Hartigan & Raines are going to be pretty decent running types.

We may need to hang on to Ray Hall (25 yoa) for sometime yet.

Wouldn't it be nice if one of Moore/McGaune/Thursfeilds became good?

 

[Weaver]

we still need a backline

Do we? The Dogs are going with Chris Grant, Brian Harris and 4 running flankers. The Swans won a premiership with Leo Barry as FB and Craig Bolton as a CHB/wingman. The Eagles hardly have an allstar cast of backmen, just a group of solid triers. All of them get a lot of protection from dominant midfields.

We have seen what our backline will look like in the future. One big bloke (Hall for now). One smaller, quicker defender (like Thursfield). A guy like Bowden at CHB. Surrounded by guys like JON and Raines.

Expecting us to recruit a genuine key defender at the draft is sooo 2002.

 

[tomthetiger]

Tucks was a long shot, and shouldve bounced in, but it bounced the opposite way. Coughlan's was a up, but remember, hes more an in and under player, same with Tuck but to a lesser extent. Wait till JON, Tambling, Deledio, Raines, Hyde and Hartigan all find their feet in the midfield, then we'll be able to do all these things we currently struggle with.

The truth is that say, Tuck will get the ball out of the ruck contest, pass it to either Coughlan or Johnson who aren't the best kicks, and there you go. Idealy, youd only have two of those guys in that position at the same time, with a Deledio and JON or Tambling there to feed it out to. Its just going to take a bit more time.

 

[Weaver]

granted one key is pressure but shouldnt we look at skills under pressure and in pressure situations?

No player consistantly hits targets under intense pressure. In the GF Judd was missing targets because the pressure was so high and Crouch was all over him.

Our solution to the problem is to recruit pace. A quick guy is able to chase down guys and apply pressure. When Aaron Davey is around guys fluff their kicks knowing he is coming for them ... even if he doesn't get to them they feel the pressure.

Quick guys can get to more contests, and more of them can get to contests. More bodies around the ball means more pressure. That is the Swans' approach. Use their pace to shut down teams.

When you have pace the guy with the ball has more time to balance and choose a kick. Also the guy he is trying to kick to (if he has pace) is more likely to have 5m of space around him. A guy with time will hit a guy in space.

On the other hand when we play a team like the Swans the guy with the ball is under pressure and the target he is trying to kick to has a man all over him. Very few players can make that kick.

Tivendale with 10m of space to settle can hit Richardson if Richo has a 5m break on his man. That is the situation we have to create. Tivendale with a man about to tackle him trying to kick to Richo 1m behind his man is never going to work.

More pace, means more time, means more loose men. More overlapping run from the backline creates more loose men through midfield and easier targets.

That is what we are trying to do. If we try and build a gameplan based on finding guys who are perfect kicks we are going to be dissapointed. What we have to do is make the kicks easier.

 

[tomthetiger]

Do we? The Dogs are going with Chris Grant, Brian Harris and 4 running flankers. The Swans won a premiership with Leo Barry as FB and Craig Bolton as a CHB/wingman. The Eagles hardly have an allstar cast of backmen, just a group of solid triers. All of them get a lot of protection from dominant midfields.

We have seen what our backline will look like in the future. One big bloke (Hall for now). One smaller, quicker defender (like Thursfield). A guy like Bowden at CHB. Surrounded by guys like JON and Raines.

Expecting us to recruit a genuine key defender at the draft is sooo 2002.

It is? :s Weaver, If we have a pick in the top 10 this year, which we should, who would you say would be our first option? based on current standings.

 

[cairo tiger]

I like your opinions weave, they show an inteliigence fo rthe game that mirrors mine, but what use is speed unless you have players that can wear a player close...put pressure on the guys with the ball and those around him...yes they need pace but pace alone does not give footy smarts and mental toughness to get a quick handball out, to set up a play in tight situations, that is what i refer to in terms of pressure at the ball...thats why we cough it up....really kellway, gasper, coghs, hallie, johnson...johnno i s ashoiker at that...he has some speed gets to the ball but then the final disposal is terrible...it puts plyers out of step and we cough it up....judd can handle the tough stuff and the speed....he is not goingot do it all the time but he does 19/20

 

[tomthetiger]

I like your opinions weave, they show an inteliigence fo rthe game that mirrors mine, but what use is speed unless you have players that can wear a player close...put pressure on the guys with the ball and those around him...yes they need pace but pace alone does not give footy smarts and mental toughness to get a quick handball out, to set up a play in tight situations, that is what i refer to in terms of pressure at the ball...thats why we cough it up....really kellway, gasper, coghs, hallie, johnson...johnno i s ashoiker at that...he has some speed gets to the ball but then the final disposal is terrible...it puts plyers out of step and we cough it up....judd can handle the tough stuff and the speed....he is not goingot do it all the time but he does 19/20

Couldn't help myself. There is always fun to be had with irony ;p sorry.

 

[Darth_Tiger]

Gold!

 

[IDGAF]

Let the canning begin

No caning brokenhearted

FWIW it`s worth i tend to agree with you .

I would not trade Tuck . I like the "mongrel" way he goes about it and he has carried on nicely from where he left off last year .

.... but Cogs , i cringe every time he gets the pill .

Look ... he is great player , i love his courage and hardness . But i ask you all this . Do you think he has the pace , skill and agility to play the role and game that TW is clearly steering our team towards? ... Have a good think about it .

I lot of it is based on a "gut" feel with Mark Coghlan for me . I think his body struggles with playing the game at the highest level and i could very easily see him washed up at 27/28 having never reached the heights and fullfilled the promise he showed as a youngster .

So i would roll the dice and if we could secure a pick in the 5 to 15 vicinty for him then i say done deal.

Sometimes you have to go on hunch or a gut feel and this is what i am thinking ..... tee off if you will but that is what i would do

 

[tugga]

No caning brokenhearted

FWIW it`s worth i tend to agree with you .

I would not trade Tuck . I like the "mongrel" way he goes about it and he has carried on nicely from where he left off last year .

.... but Cogs , i cringe every time he gets the pill .

Look ... he is great player , i love his courage and hardness . But i ask you all this . Do you think he has the pace , skill and agility to play the role and game that TW is clearly steering our team towards? ... Have a good think about it .

I lot of it is based on a "gut" feel with Mark Coghlan for me . I think his body struggles with playing the game at the highest level and i could very easily see him washed up at 27/28 having never reached the heights and fullfilled the promise he showed as a youngster .

So i would roll the dice and if we could secure a pick in the 5 to 15 vicinty for him then i say done deal.

Sometimes you have to go on hunch or a gut feel and this is what i am thinking ..... tee off if you will but that is what i would do

OP seems to have taken its toll on Cogs more so than most.