Mal

[kimp]

I've never said they were overpaid. I've said that it's ridiculous to feel sorry for them if their contract negotiations are tough. It's like that for everyone. it's their choice to stay with a team or play football. The club can't be accused like it has been for trying to run an effective business.

It's also their (and partly their manager's) reponsibility to prepare for their futures beyond football. If they don't do this then why should the supporters feel sorry for them? Are they not capable of thinking for themselves? That's the implication.

 

[irel]

Campbell you just have to accept that this is the way it is at ALL footy clubs. They are just pawns on a chess board, some are knights, some are rooks but at the end of the day they are all just pieces of a puzzle and they are all expendable and replaceable. This is the same in any business. People are made redundant all the time. I myself was made redundant earlier this year to be replaced by a cheaper version under a different position title. Happens all the time.

Like it? NO.

Accept it? - you just have to.

I have far more sympathy and empathy for you LL than for the players you are defending. It's a career choice they make. Everyone knows the cut-throat nature of sport. I won't go into the pay issue suffice to say the rewards are not comparable to other professions of equal short duration.

Save me the tears, it's the 21st century and no professional person that I know of is looked after better having almost every physiological and psychological need provided by their employer. Such as, career guidance counseling, financial counseling, psychological counseling, accommodation, dietitians, medical needs and so on and so on. If one accepts all of these benefits than they must accept that they have responsibility to be responsible with their lives to make sure that beyond their football careers there is a life.

The "Player's Union" even looks after them beyond their retirement/exit from football. So please don't play the "Poor me" card here on behalf of the players or coaches. Most of the people posting here are intelligent and realists and I don't think much sympathy will be extended.

I don't know your redundancy situation but I would be very surprised if the same level of support you enjoyed from your employer or industry as footballers do in their career.

 

[POBT]

So don't begrudge footy players their $$$ when they are super-fit athletes, held at the whim of the powers above them, who bust an arse to entertain us.

I don't think he is begrudging them. More that he doesn't feel sorry for them.

 

[Homer Jnr]

I've never said they were overpaid. I've said that it's ridiculous to feel sorry for them if their contract negotiations are tough. It's like that for everyone. it's their choice to stay with a team or play football. The club can't be accused like it has been for trying to run an effective business.

It's also their (and partly their manager's) reponsibility to prepare for their futures beyond football. If they don't do this then why should the supporters feel sorry for them? Are they not capable of thinking for themselves? That's the implication.

I am fine with the negotiations to be tough, that is how they go. Or we have 25 players on the list naming their own price.

But you implied they were over-paid, that is how I read it. If that is not what you meant, that is fine, but to me, the implication was there.

 

[Homer Jnr]

I don't think he is begrudging them. More that he doesn't feel sorry for them.

As I said, it was how I interpreted the implication.

 

[Lady Lawrence]

I have far more sympathy and empathy for you LL than for the players you are defending. It's a career choice they make. Everyone knows the cut-throat nature of sport. I won't go into the pay issue suffice to say the rewards are not comparable to other professions of equal short duration.

Save me the tears, it's the 21st century and no professional person that I know of is looked after better having almost every physiological and psychological need provided by their employer. Such as, career guidance counseling, financial counseling, psychological counseling, accommodation, dietitians, medical needs and so on and so on. If one accepts all of these benefits than they must accept that they have responsibility to be responsible with their lives to make sure that beyond their football careers there is a life.

The "Player's Union" even looks after them beyond their retirement/exit from football. So please don't play the "Poor me" card here on behalf of the players or coaches. Most of the people posting here are intelligent and realists and I don't think much sympathy will be extended.

I don't know your redundancy situation but I would be very surprised if the same level of support you enjoyed from your employer or industry as footballers do in their career.

Where did you get that I was defending them? Jeez you really decide what my thoughts are even if they aren't what I post. I merely pointed out to Campbell that they ARE just pawns when it comes to positioning the team and negotiating contracts. Happens in all businesses not just footy. I ain't shedding no tears for them. They are all adults (young though some are) and they make their choices.

I worked in the music industry for a number of years and whilst our boys make physical and time sacrifices, it is nothing to what you have to give up for a recording contract.

Like all the above? - No
Accept that it is simply a business reality? - Yes

 

[POBT]

My problem with well-paid professional sportspeople is not that they are overpaid. My problem is when they expect or receive sympathy for their situation or expect loyalty when no loyalty is shown.

Look at the Bradshaw situation. His manager is talking about him returning to Victoria - we suspect that it is all ****speak to drive his contract price up but it is not exactly a sign of his loyalty. If he stays with us, loyalty will have been only a small driver in his decision.

Look at Luke Power. People were lauding him for his loyalty last year but he spent months intimating that he would return to Victoria unless our offer was acceptable. I've got no problem with him or any other player extracting every last cent out of the club but it is not loyalty that caused him to stay.

Loyalty is a two way street that neither player or club traverses (at least not very often). Even the calls of someone like Chris Scott to take pay cuts "to keep the group together" had a self-interest component in that he wanted to win more premierships.

 

[POBT]

As I said, it was how I interpreted the implication.

Do you think they are underpaid?

Seems to me there are three possible positions to take:

1. Players are generally underpaid and have every right to complain.

2. Players are generally overpaid in which case they have absolutely no right to complain.

3. Players are generally paid what they are worth in which case their right to complain will depend on the circumstances.

Would be interesting to see where most people believe the reality is.

 

[beatnik]

i am confused and have some questions i want answered...

a) who said players were overpaid? (i cant find the reference)

b) what does all this have to with problems at the club regarding Mal and Braddy?

c) are there, in fact, any problems at the club regarding Mal and Braddy?

d) why are there 2 gaps between Ch 7 and Ch9 but only one between Ch9 and Ch10?

 

[Lady Lawrence]

Do you think they are underpaid?

Seems to me there are three possible positions to take:

1. Players are generally underpaid and have every right to complain.

2. Players are generally overpaid in which case they have absolutely no right to complain.

3. Players are generally paid what they are worth in which case their right to complain will depend on the circumstances.

Would be interesting to see where most people believe the reality is.

I would go with number 3 there. Vossy being a prime example. Although money does not really compensate so actually I think I am talking myself out of it as I type. But think of his legs in another 10 years time. As someone else said, will he be able to run around at the park with his kids? Then again he made the decision to play and play and play. Then there is the flip side of this, if you are that passionate about it there is no decision, you have to play no matter what and stuff the consequences. And again that is a choice and no amount of money will rectify that. May help cover ongoing long term medical expenses etc.

 

[Homer Jnr]

Do you think they are underpaid?

Seems to me there are three possible positions to take:

1. Players are generally underpaid and have every right to complain.

2. Players are generally overpaid in which case they have absolutely no right to complain.

3. Players are generally paid what they are worth in which case their right to complain will depend on the circumstances.

Would be interesting to see where most people believe the reality is.

Lock in 3 Eddie.

It is pretty much about right, they earn what they get.

 

[POBT]

I believe it is number 3 too. Which is why I am not generally sympathetic to professional footballers' lot in life. I don't begrudge them their success but there's generally no sympathy unless I believe there has been an injustice. I have far more sympathy for rookies and draftees who miss out on the footy career and the big bucks due to injury or other circumstances beyond their control.

Vossy's situation is a great example. The long term effects on his body are recompensed by his football earnings and the position he is in to make money for the rest of his life. No problems with that at all. And I also bet he won't whine about it either.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

How you detemine what's "about right"? Is it a reflection of the time and effort they put in and then compared with what workers in the real world get paid and put into their jobs? Or is it a reflection of the money that's invloved with the game?

For what it's worth I think players are generally over paid (except for the rookies) for what they do. But then again, I think a lot of professions are overpaid. Conversely teachers, law enforcement types and nurses are underpaid IMO.

Footballers can go on to make very good careers after they finish up. Ol' Papa Bear was of an ear before players were as aware as they are now about life after footy. But he's still making a comfortable wage I'd say.

So most footballers who, after having the oppurtunity to live out their dreams, can go on and continue earning money until they're at retirement age. Sure they put in a lot of work and there are occupational hazards, but no one's holding a gun to their heads.

As I've said before, if I keep doing what i'm doing for another 20 years my eyes will be shot. That's an occupational hazard. But I enjoy the work, so I keep doing it. But I know it's a risk. The difference is I'm not getting paid $200K to do it.

 

[Grimreepah]

The salary cap means that you can only pay players so much. If a player asks for too much then it is not in the best interests of the club to keep him. In saying that I think Bradshaw and the club will agree on something that is fair and he will be a Lion next year.

With regards to Mal obviously the club does not want to compromise on the team ethic of commitment to the club. With a lot of young players adapting to the rigours of senior footy, this makes perfect sense to me. The Kokoda trek was about being all in it together. To now make exceptions for players would break the unity that was formed.

I am not so confident about Mal staying. In fact I am probably leaning the other way. It's not just his request, but the fact that his form slipped in the 2nd half of this year. If there are any doubts about his commitment, or whether he can perform at the required level, then I think he should be traded.

 

[POBT]

How you detemine what's "about right"? Is it a reflection of the time and effort they put in and then compared with what workers in the real world get paid and put into their jobs? Or is it a reflection of the money that's invloved with the game?

Lots of considerations. What they give up. The level of "eliteness" needed to make good money. The limited timeframe on the actual earning potential. It is hard to quantify those things but the balance seems to me to be about right at the moment.

Conversely teachers, law enforcement types and nurses are underpaid IMO.

Yep.

 

[captain_obscure]

I probably have a slightly different perspective to most on this topic as I am studying it at uni. For what its worth I believe players are payed pretty much what they deserve when you take into account the enormous amount of physical and mental effort they have to put into their jobs and the potentially short span of their careers (whether through not being able to make the grade or incidents on the field i.e. Blake Caracella this year).

I agree that players are surrounded by fantastic support mechanisms and professional organisations these days (psychologists etc) and that it is the responsibility of the player and/or manager to ensure there is a future after football.

It is unrealistic IMO to compare young footballers to other employees their own age. How many electricians are subject to nationwide scrutiny and discussion on public forums whilst performing their job?

I agree also that other professionals such as teachers, nurses, law enforcement officials are underpaid, however the reason the players are paid the amount they are is because the competition they are involved in generates the money which is then returned to them through wages and sponsorships. Unfortunately, other underpaid professionals who probably make a more vital contribution to society than footballers cannot generate this additional income but this is a broader social issue.

Just my 2 cents.

BTW, how did we get onto this from the original discussion on Mal's future? Does anyone have any information? Crispy?

 

[Viceregal]

i am confused and have some questions i want answered...

d) why are there 2 gaps between Ch 7 and Ch9 but only one between Ch9 and Ch10?

That is so they can fit in channel 8! (and possibly the fault of the inventors of the decimal system )

 

[kimp]

What they're paid is based purely on the what the market can afford. In this case the television deals and sponsorship means that they're paid a large amount. It has nothing to do with the length of their playing career or anything else really.

This is obvious in all sports. Certainly golf players have relativele long careers and yet are some of the highest paid sportspeople.

 

[konstas_87]

i reckon it looks like Mal might be heading off, but hopefully Braddy will stay.
dont see why Mal cant just wait til he retires, then he'll ahve 50 years to do whatever he wants.
He has given alot to the club but has taken 3 flags too, i reckon he should be keen to hang around and try help some of the young guys develop.

hard to tell what will happen.

 

[scott522]

.

Loyalty is a two way street that neither player or club traverses (at least not very often). Even the calls of someone like Chris Scott to take pay cuts "to keep the group together" had a self-interest component in that he wanted to win more premierships.

It was actually Brad who said that at the CC...what player doesn't want to win more premierships ?

 

[POBT]

What they're paid is based purely on the what the market can afford. In this case the television deals and sponsorship means that they're paid a large amount. It has nothing to do with the length of their playing career or anything else really.

This is obvious in all sports. Certainly golf players have relativele long careers and yet are some of the highest paid sportspeople.

That is true and clearly the increased revenue is what drives wages up. But that doesn't answer the question of whether they are overpaid, underpaid or otherwise. I would argue that many sportspeople are overpaid - I just don't think the wages of AFL footballers fall into that category.

 

[POBT]

.

It was actually Brad who said that at the CC...what player doesn't want to win more premierships ?

Thanks. Someone else had said Chris and I followed that. They should wear their playing numbers all the time!

I'm not knocking Brad/Chris for saying it and it certainly was not a selfish comment to make. But the point that I was making was that even the most team-oriented players are motivated by self-interest to an extent.

 

[beatnik]

That is so they can fit in channel 8! (and possibly the fault of the inventors of the decimal system )

OMG there's a channel 8?

I've been missing out...

 

[campbell]

.

It was actually Brad who said that at the CC...what player doesn't want to win more premierships ?

Most players in most teams haven't even won 1 premiership.We are a very very privalged lot of supporters.

Like Grant,Harvey, Bucks and co.No cups for them.

 

[kimp]

That is true and clearly the increased revenue is what drives wages up. But that doesn't answer the question of whether they are overpaid, underpaid or otherwise. I would argue that many sportspeople are overpaid - I just don't think the wages of AFL footballers fall into that category.

But that's the answer POBT. The market dictates what they are paid so that means that it's pretty much right. The question of whether that amount is representative of their value to society is a different kettle of fish that I believe that LL was trying to avoid.