Malthouse might 'coach' suspended dopers.

[chelseacarlton]

But how could they possibly do that without input from the Essendon coach (who will know team strategies, tactics etc) - which is not allowed. Malthouse wouldn't know that, nobody would. You've got to make the best of a bad situation I guess. And I'm not talking your run of the mill PT. There are specialist athlete PTs or physios out there that would be far better to help and motive them than just themselves.

WRONG WRONG DAPPER JONG.()
You don't know what you're talking about,so stop deluding yourself Jen.

 

[DapperDon]

Of course it is. I guess my "PT" suggestion was kind of tongue in cheek, but really, there's not much else they can do (obviously, pick the RIGHT trainer/fitness guy would be the prime goal). They can't have contact with the Club, and there can be no input from anyone associated with the Club into the suspended players training regime. Pointless getting someone like Malthouse - who doesn't know what Essendon's strategies/tactics are - it has to be something that fits in to the Essendon strategy and if he can't actually know what that is, then it's pointless having him. Obviously some of you think differently.. I just can't see how a coach will help the players OR Essendon.

Malthouse would be there too keep things as close to a football club scenario as possible. They'd talk about games, new teams strategies, how they could best pick apart teams. If you think all they will be doing over the 12 months is running laps with a "PT guy" (seriously ******* lol, they'd know more than what Johnnie at Fitness First leaned in his cert 3, 8 day course) then you really haven't thought things through. They will be staying as close as (wada) legally possible to the sport.

They will have coaches, doctors, trainers with them just like they would in proper seasons.

Also, I know this will make you REALLY MAD but Malthouse and Woosha are allowed to talk. WADA won't be sitting in the next booth with tape recorders either.

 

[jenny61_99]

Are you a coach of a sporting team?.
Have you ever coached an athlete?.
Have you ever been involved with any sporting codes at any level?.
Have you been coached by anyone at the elite level?.
Youve backed yourself into a corner and can't find a way out,funny thing though,there is nothing from stopping you simply walking out of said corner.
Simply put,you're wrong and you know it,but stubbornness and pride keep you there.
Your proposals are s**t!.

Like I said... we see things differently. No reason to personally attack. And you have no idea what I have and haven't done.

 

[jenny61_99]

jesus

Look, Malthouse is overkill even despite rumours about how much he wanted to get paid.

But you have to have some type of football coach. They are Footballers. They don't necessarily have to keep up with Essendon's game-plan, chances are the players may already know most of it anyway.

But Jen, can't you see how practicing football scenarios would help players who can't play for a whole year? Who says it has to be Essendon's distinct gameplan? The list of football related things they can practice is ******* huge.

Are you saying they don't need to kick a ball all year?

Of course they do. they need a football coach to train them in these aspects.

far out it;s like trying to explain why 2+2=4

Do they not know training drills that they've done over the past however long? Can they not work those into their routines? Jesus, I'm not suggesting they don't work with footballs. FFS.

 

[DapperJong]

Do they not know training drills that they've done over the past however long? Can they not work those into their routines? Jesus, I'm not suggesting they don't work with footballs. FFS.

You bet they know training drills, but they need a coach to monitor, to push, to correct etc.

The reason chelseacarlton asked you those questions is because it seems like you haven't been involved in the actual playing of any sport of any kind.

Not many people who have played sport are going to agree with you here.

 

[jerry springer]

A million dollars to not even do any match day coaching lol, never change Mick.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Like I said... we see things differently. No reason to personally attack. And you have no idea what I have and haven't done.

That's why I asked those specific questions Jen.
If you feel I've personally attacked you,I apologise.
I thought I'd only attacked your position.
I've been coached by people at the elite level in football,cricket,basketball and athletics.
I coach at the junior level.
I use the skills I acquired by those elite coaches and pass those onto my kids.
I have a very different attitude and methods obviously,because they are kids of the year 2016 and not the 70's,80's and 90's when I was being coached.
But the one thing that is constant throughout is repetitive skill based training.
Something you will not get from a fitness/personal trainer.
The efc blokes need an Afl elite coach that is wada compliant.
If they don't get one then they are fools.the afl are fools and the efc are fools.

 

[Boxhead_31]

You bet they know training drills, but they need a coach to monitor, to push, to correct etc.

The reason chelseacarlton asked you those questions is because it seems like you haven't been involved in the actual playing of any sport of any kind.

Not many people who have played sport are going to agree with you here.

Given that what most of what they would be doing would be fitness based, why would they need a coach for that and not a trainer?
There might be some ball work involved but they aren't going to be doing a lot of structure type stuff now are they, which is where a true coach would make an impact.
I know in the pre-seasons I've done a lot of the fitness stuff was training group driven, was used as a way of developing us as players to be self-driven

 

[DapperJong]

Given that what most of what they would be doing would be fitness based

Where did you get this from?
Why wouldn't they do ball based training?
Why wouldn't they practice gameday scenarios?
Why wouldn't they conduct conditioning drills?
Why would they stop doing things involved in the sport they're going to be playing again next year?
Why would the players, who are already at a disadvantage due to being outside the system, make it even worse for themselves?

It's very ignorant for you to think that most of what they are doing is fitness based.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Of course it is. I guess my "PT" suggestion was kind of tongue in cheek, but really, there's not much else they can do (obviously, pick the RIGHT trainer/fitness guy would be the prime goal). They can't have contact with the Club, and there can be no input from anyone associated with the Club into the suspended players training regime. Pointless getting someone like Malthouse - who doesn't know what Essendon's strategies/tactics are - it has to be something that fits in to the Essendon strategy and if he can't actually know what that is, then it's pointless having him. Obviously some of you think differently.. I just can't see how a coach will help the players OR Essendon.

it's funny how often your posts turn out to be "tongue in cheek" or "meant as a joke" or "I was just asking a question FFS" or even "sure it says that but that's not what I meant, I meant the opposite, and if you didn't realise it's your fault".

You know, sometimes you can just admit you're wrong

 

[Boxhead_31]

Where did you get this from?
Why wouldn't they do ball based training?
Why wouldn't they practice gameday scenarios?
Why wouldn't they conduct conditioning drills?
Why would they stop doing things involved in the sport they're going to be playing again next year?
Why would the players, who are already at a disadvantage due to being outside the system, make it even worse for themselves?

It's very ignorant for you to think that most of what they are doing is fitness based.

How are their gameday scenarios going to match up with what Essendon are doing if they can't have any discussion about what EFC are doing or hope to achieve? They would only be guessing what they think they are trying to do would they not?

Where did I say they wouldn't be doing conditioning?

With 12-17 players how much serious ball work are they going to do DJ that would involve an AFL qualified coach?

 

[DapperJong]

How are their gameday scenarios going to match up with what Essendon are doing if they can't have any discussion about what EFC are doing or hope to achieve? They would only be guessing what they think they are trying to do would they not?

They're not, as I said, they're already at a disadvantage by not being in the system this year. Which is why simply dropping that aspect of training is ludicrous.

Where did I say they wouldn't be doing conditioning?

You didn't, but you stated that they would be mainly doing fitness training. Still would like to know how you figure that.

With 12-17 players how much serious ball work are they going to do DJ that would involve an AFL qualified coach?

Yeah actually, stuff it. Just run laps for the year.

Christ what planet are you on? How is doing less going to help in any way?

 

[Boxhead_31]

They're not, as I said, they're already at a disadvantage by not being in the system this year. Which is why simply dropping that aspect of training is ludicrous.



You didn't, but you stated that they would be mainly doing fitness training. Still would like to know how you figure that.



Yeah actually, stuff it. Just run laps for the year.

Christ what planet are you on? How is doing less going to help in any way?

What is your expectation for the banned players this year DJ?
What do you see them doing on a weekly basis?

 

[DapperJong]

What is your expectation for the banned players this year DJ?
What do you see them doing on a weekly basis?

What's your point man

 

[Boxhead_31]

What's your point man

Well others are putting out what they think and all your doing is shooting them down. So what do you think they will be doing on a weekly basis?

 

[DapperJong]

Well others are putting out what they think and all your doing is shooting them down. So what do you think they will be doing on a weekly basis?

One other person disagrees with me. Shooting down or making a strong case as to the contrary in which others are agreeing with?

Why are you asking me a question to an answer that you could probably figure out by reading one of my posts that was directed at you? I even made a list ffs.

I'd be disappointed if the players didn't do everything in their power to train as close as they would had they been still part of the system. Because, as you know, these guys hope to play next year.

Does it really need this level of spelling out?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I cant see what the issue is with the players getting some proper expert coaching in the game they actually play from somebody recently in the system but not currently in the system.

The only problem I see is that Malthouse is a mercenary bastard who has priced himself out of the market by about 1000%.

Maybe Hird would do it cheaper?

 

[jenny61_99]

That's why I asked those specific questions Jen.
If you feel I've personally attacked you,I apologise.
I thought I'd only attacked your position.
I've been coached by people at the elite level in football,cricket,basketball and athletics.
I coach at the junior level.
I use the skills I acquired by those elite coaches and pass those onto my kids.
I have a very different attitude and methods obviously,because they are kids of the year 2016 and not the 70's,80's and 90's when I was being coached.
But the one thing that is constant throughout is repetitive skill based training.
Something you will not get from a fitness/personal trainer.
The efc blokes need an Afl elite coach that is wada compliant.
If they don't get one then they are fools.the afl are fools and the efc are fools.

I think my position has been understated by me and misunderstood by you.

I have actually also trained and played sport at a high level (in my younger years), obviously not football. And I have watched many many MANY training sessions of footy at both Club and AFL level. So I am very aware of the skills and drills needed/used. When I said the right fitness/physio/trainer, I meant someone that understood AFL and the needs of players. Drills and skills are ingrained in most players so there's no reason why they can't put together training programs that they know will fit in with their Club's philosophies. The PT/Physio etc are there to motivate and drive them. There are two reasons I don't believe an elite coach should be allowed to be used. A) The players are being punished for doping breaches. Providing them with an A Grade AFL senior coach doesn't seem in the right spirit of the bans/code. (This is just my opinion) B) This coach is not supposed to have any contact with Essendon coaching staff (ie. they aren't supposed to be in cahoots with), so therefore his role would be limited to what essentially a physio/pt etc can do anyways. Now DJ is saying "there are ways around that" but again, to me, it's not in the spirit of the bans/code.

I apologise for my "you really need to read my mind by what I meant" approach to this.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Given that what most of what they would be doing would be fitness based, why would they need a coach for that and not a trainer?
There might be some ball work involved but they aren't going to be doing a lot of structure type stuff now are they, which is where a true coach would make an impact.
I know in the pre-seasons I've done a lot of the fitness stuff was training group driven, was used as a way of developing us as players to be self-driven

Ours is a very skills based sport.
Structurally they'll pick up next preseason when they rejoin the squad.
If I were one of the banned players,I'd want the sharpest elite afl wada compliant coach available casting on eagle eye (pun not intended)over my every training session,just as if I were not banned.
I'd be elite,why the * not behave that way?.
If you can't become better,then why the * bother at all.
They should have both!.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Malthouse has really shown his true colours over the last couple of years. He used Carlton for his own agenda and once he achieved his goal he did everything he could to make them fire him. This group of dopers have finally done something right.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The rules are clear. They cant be coached by anybody currently employed in the system. There is no reason why somebody close to the industry but not currently in it (eg a Wallace, or a Malthouse, or a Hird (LOL) or a "insert_name_here" shouldnt be able to keep these guys in some sort of shape before they rejoin Essendon later in the year. As long as the question of who is paying the bill is clear and approved, and as long as EFC themselves have no engagement with this private coach as regards training programme or feedback.

 

[Muggs]

Malthouse has really shown his true colours over the last couple of years. He used Carlton for his own agenda and once he achieved his goal he did everything he could to make them fire him. This group of dopers have finally done something right.

That's assuming the players turned down Malthouse and not Malthouse going oh s**t I need to give up my cushy paying job on the foxtel the recruit (and any other things foxtel put into the contract) and going bugger that.

 

[chelseacarlton]

I think my position has been understated by me and misunderstood by you.

I have actually also trained and played sport at a high level (in my younger years), obviously not football. And I have watched many many MANY training sessions of footy at both Club and AFL level. So I am very aware of the skills and drills needed/used. When I said the right fitness/physio/trainer, I meant someone that understood AFL and the needs of players. Drills and skills are ingrained in most players so there's no reason why they can't put together training programs that they know will fit in with their Club's philosophies. The PT/Physio etc are there to motivate and drive them. There are two reasons I don't believe an elite coach should be allowed to be used. A) The players are being punished for doping breaches. Providing them with an A Grade AFL senior coach doesn't seem in the right spirit of the bans/code. (This is just my opinion) B) This coach is not supposed to have any contact with Essendon coaching staff (ie. they aren't supposed to be in cahoots with), so therefore his role would be limited to what essentially a physio/pt etc can do anyways. Now DJ is saying "there are ways around that" but again, to me, it's not in the spirit of the bans/code.

I apologise for my "you really need to read my mind by what I meant" approach to this.

See above.
Skills skills skills and more skills until you're waking up sweating in the middle of the night kickin the s**t out of your dog who's happily lying on your feet in bed.
They drop off at the elite level very fast.
A fitness guy that hasn't coached at the elite level will most certainly not have this skillset at his disposal(pun most definitely intended).

 

[Bunk Moreland]

This is a *in ridiculous conversation. They have six months off. They're all different and will want to do different things. Football is all they've known as adults, some will want to do something completely different as that's just their personality.

Other will find comfort in the routine they're used to and will want a part time or full time football program. They'll want to develop and improve fitness, strength, skills, knowledge, awareness and tactical nous. They might enjoy the group dynamic and want to rock up to that constantly.

Players develop over years, they don't just arrive at 18yo and stay at that level. It's a cumulative thing and the best players actually never stop improving.

To run a proper program you need a leader. To run a football program you need a football coach. How many *in shades of stupid do you need to be to suggest otherwise.

 

[Laphroaig]

His work with finances has been amazing though - how about all that debt he hid away!?

Well he's certainly fooled you.

Which would not number among the toughest jobs he's had to do in his life.