Martin Hardie: I write the forms... I think Evans ran the program

[CozzaD]

We've known about that for years. What's that got to do with players being used as lab rats for AOD?

Never fear. Note the date of the article. Note Robinson and Dank went from Geel to Ess, presumably on Thompson's advice.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...pson-gary-ablett/story-e6frf9jf-1225968538524

WARWICK GREEN HERALD SUN DECEMBER 10, 2010 12:00AM

GARY Ablett has broken his silence on his strained relationship with former Geelong coach Mark Thompson, revealing that the pair had not had a meaningful conversation since April.

In a forthright interview, Ablett said:

THOMPSON was "a very controlling person" who wanted to oversee other parts of the football club, such as contract negotiations and the medical department.

THOMPSON was being "hypocritical" and deflecting attention from his own departure from Geelong by continuing to draw Ablett into media discussions.

 

[Just interested]

Hird is either naïve, greedy or stupid. I’m not sure which one yet.

In terms of the Governance/Legalities, the “key players” we’ve researched are bigger than Hird, which is why we went down that path. The buck will not stop with him (in the sense that, from his eyes, I wouldn’t want to take the wrap either for the other corporates).

Evans resignation in July 2013 is very interesting, up until that point, it was all “we’re on the same team” and “we’ll work with ASADA on this”.

There’s been a seismic shift in the thinking of Essendon FC powerbrokers since July 2013, when Evans left.

Don’t forget, I still deem that Thompson has got off very lightly in all this, so has Geelong footy club.

2 out of the listed 3, I reckon.

Can't recall where I posted it yesterday but I have long thought most people have been fixated on the tip, and missed the iceberg. It's not unreasonable to put that down to the focus being largely on the nebulous, by prominent media practitioners who are more comfortable "in the tent", than outside, and more comfortable sticking to commentary, rather than reporting (that doesn't apply to B & M, who have come at this from a different perspective from the get go, and they haven't gone away - nor have they been suppressed, as someone asked earlier).

Much of what Cozza postulates is not dissimilar to what I've learned (learned, not concocted). There are differences between what he suggests, and where I've come to. But, those differences appear to me to more about emphasis or focus, not contradiction.

I do think Hird is more involved than Cozza suggests....might be the case, although I haven't seen him definitively excuse Hird....I think he remains to be convinced - that might well be a reflection of the different focus, or because he has come across different information to me (leading to differences in context, or framing).

Example: The Calzada investment meeting in late '11, the SMS where Dank referred to "financials", "AOD project", "ready for you and David" etc., and then on to Evans resigning while looking like he'd just been hit with a shovel.

I've long wondered whether the investment meeting broke up with an agreed understanding, but Evans later found out that understanding had not been accorded with by others at that meeting. There are various combinations of people at that meeting who may not have abided by what was decided. When you consider those combinations, and the aftermath of that meeting, you can come up with a range of explanations for what the SMS was saying, in reality.

I'll leave you to consider what those possibilities might be, but the mere fact Hird is central to a discussion about what that SMS covered says to me he is more involved than Cozza has yet concluded.

 

[Just interested]

We've known about that for years. What's that got to do with players being used as lab rats for AOD?

All part of the rich tapestry of connection, influence and money, Fu.

To put that another way, the bigger picture. It's not causal, but it might just be related.

 

[Gigantor]

Christmas time!

BACKGROUND
In light of Essendon FC losing the Federal Court case some months back, and Justice Middleton having a go at the Gillard Government in it, I feel that this issue of heavy links between key AFL figures (including ex Essendon Chairman David Evans) and the ALP is now an 'open slather' topic. The question is conflict of interest and use of these positions/links for personal financial gain should be covered now, with no fear or favour.

I've drawn below a Summary List of Key AFL Figures with strong and common links to some ALP heavies.

It is borderline journalistic ignorance to not at least look at this. The Trade Union Royal Commission is also showing some AFL links there to slush funds also.

Bill Kelty
Ex Aus Council of Trade Unions (ACTU) President, current AFL Commissioner and Board/Committee of AFL Sports Ready (HE ALSO sits on the Board of David Evans Private Company, Evans and Partners). May also have links to “Media Strategy Company” used in defamation case for Dean Robinson.

Andrew Demetriou
Employed ex ALP Minister’s Key Man to AFL in 2007 (Phil Martin) and now has Bastion Business interests with him, and Creswick Quartz. Also see Demetriou/ALP Links here http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...mments/the_l_in_afl_must_mean_labor/desc/P40/ and http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...e-a-boring-bloke/story-fni5f22o-1226938528929

Mike Fitzpatrick
See here for evidence of ALP sympathies/allegiances http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/06/26/mike-fitzpatricks-tricky-anz-stadium-conflict-of-interest/

Eddie McGuire
His brother Frank McGuire is Labor MP for Broadmeadows. Eddie McGuire and David Evans share several Boards (Shane Warne Foundation and “Evans and Partners”)

Steve Bracks
Board Member: AFL Sports Ready (Bill Kelty is linked here too) http://www.aflsportsready.com.au/our-story/the-team/patrons-ambassadors

Peter Walsh (ex Chief of Staff for John Brumby)
Current Board Member of Western Bulldogs FC, involved in 2010 Matthew Primus Betting Incident

Redstick Strategic Communication
‘Lobby arm’ for Geelong FC and Armstrong Creek Property Development (see Justin Madden/Mark Thompson/Mark Casey links)

David Evans
Check the Board of his private company Evans and Partners, both Bill Kelty and Eddie McGuire sit on it. David Evans also sits on Victoria Police Corporate Advisory Committee.

Do these ALP links not give rise to at least one obvious question: what are the offsetting Liberal interests doing? (or is that what we have been witnessing this past year?)

 

[CozzaD]

Do these ALP links not give rise to at least one obvious question: what are the offsetting Liberal interests doing? (or is that what we have been witnessing this past year?)

Kennett at Hawthorn, Elliot at Carlton (who Demetriou shoved out very early in his CEO role) spring as Liberal backed clubs.

Might be worth further study/research on which clubs are ALP backed/aligned and which clubs are Liberal backed/aligned.

 

[Just interested]

Just on the question of whether B & M might have been 'suppressed' in some way, if you know how to find out who might have launched FOI requests, and to whom, you might find there is someone who may well have wanted to restrict the work of the 2 investigative tyros.

I reckon the launcher was probably unsuccessful in uncovering any conspiracies, however, so I reckon work rolls on in the Docklands.

I'll just say that is not irrelevant in this thread.

 

[Blue Warrior]

More please. Love it

 

[Sir Hugh Percy]

Just on the question of whether B & M might have been 'suppressed' in some way, if you know how to find out who might have launched FOI requests, and to whom, you might find there is someone who may well have wanted to restrict the work of the 2 investigative tyros.

I reckon the launcher was probably unsuccessful in uncovering any conspiracies, however, so I reckon work rolls on in the Docklands.

I'll just say that is not irrelevant in this thread.

That is more in line with where I'm coming at this from.

 

[FuManchu]

Never fear. Note the date of the article. Note Robinson and Dank went from Geel to Ess, presumably on Thompson's advice.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...pson-gary-ablett/story-e6frf9jf-1225968538524

WARWICK GREEN HERALD SUN DECEMBER 10, 2010 12:00AM

GARY Ablett has broken his silence on his strained relationship with former Geelong coach Mark Thompson, revealing that the pair had not had a meaningful conversation since April.

In a forthright interview, Ablett said:

THOMPSON was "a very controlling person" who wanted to oversee other parts of the football club, such as contract negotiations and the medical department.

THOMPSON was being "hypocritical" and deflecting attention from his own departure from Geelong by continuing to draw Ablett into media discussions.

Yeah, Dec 2010. And?

Look, I'm not discounting anything you say, but you're just throwing things out there that don't connect to the other.

Thompson left Geelong yes. Thompson had worked with Robinson yes. I'll even go to say Robinson was reported to have mentioned Dank in some news article post 2007 Geelong flag.

I can fully appreciate Thompson brought these people into the club. But what has that got to do with land deals, no matter how shonky they are?

So far, all you've shown me is that they all piss in each other's pockets because it's an incestuous industry.

You've alluded to many things but you haven't actually shown proof of how a land deal in Geelong lead to essendon players being used to test AOD let alone the need make Hird a scapegoat

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

WARWICK GREEN HERALD SUN DECEMBER 10, 2010 12:00AM

GARY Ablett has broken his silence on his strained relationship with former Geelong coach Mark Thompson, revealing that the pair had not had a meaningful conversation since April.

To be fair, I would think trying to hold a meaningful conversation with either of them would be rather difficult.

 

[Gigantor]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...son-strikes-gold/story-e6frf9jf-1225907043696

Corrupt local councils/state govt and land rezoning decisions are at the very apex of corruption in this country. It's the one area where Australia excels.

 

[Boxhead_31]

Not sure. Are they the right body to be prosecuting in the first place? ATO & ASIC need to be involved also I feel.

Maybe someone should follow Martin Hardie's example with asking the AFP to investigate McDevitt and invite the ATO and ASIC to have a gander as to what was going on?

 

[Just interested]

Maybe someone should follow Martin Hardie's example with asking the AFP to investigate McDevitt and invite the ATO and ASIC to have a gander as to what was going on?

The ACC do make referrals to various bodies, and those referrals are rarely made public.

 

[FuManchu]

The ACC do make referrals to various bodies, and those referrals are rarely made public.

They did make a very public referral 20 months ago

 

[sonnywalters]

Ill have a guess

Adelaide Crows - Libs (think A Downer, C Pyne)
Brisbane Lions - neutral
Carlton - Libs
Collingwood - ALP (think Eddie)
Essendon (ALP Kelty but also Libs with Costello)
Fremantle - ALP/Greens
Geelong - ALP
GWS - AFL creation - loyal to head office/marginal seat battle ground/Demetriou/ALP leaning (C Bowen)
Gold Coast Suns - LNP
Hawthorn - Libs
Melbourne - Libs
Norf - ALP
Port Power - ALP
Richmond - ALP
Sydney Swans - neutral
St Kilda - neutral/no allegiance
Bulldogs - ALP
West Coast - Libs

 

[Just interested]

CozzaD, what have you got on Hird's history with Charter? Anything?

What about his knowledge of what Dank was up to, as per the Danny Weidler piece I've posted a few times?

If you know anyone who shared accommodations with Doc Ageless, during his time served for the importation matter, you may be unsurprised to learn the Doc is a very chatty fella. Maybe it was the environment, but he seems to have suggested an important relationship existed between him self and that other bloke, and well beyond accepting $5K payments for "dietary advice", as claimed by the other fella when asked.

"The foot" might be relevant here.

 

[Gigantor]

Ill have a guess

Adelaide Crows - Libs (think A Downer, C Pyne)
Brisbane Lions - neutral
Carlton - Libs
Collingwood - ALP (think Eddie)
Essendon (ALP Kelty but also Libs with Costello)
Fremantle - ALP/Greens
Geelong - ALP
GWS - AFL creation - loyal to head office/marginal seat battle ground/Demetriou/ALP leaning (C Bowen)
Gold Coast Suns - LNP
Hawthorn - Libs
Melbourne - Libs
Norf - ALP
Port Power - ALP
Richmond - ALP
Sydney Swans - neutral
St Kilda - neutral/no allegiance
Bulldogs - ALP
West Coast - Libs

Not a bad effort, some brought a smile to my face.
Adelaide - spot on, no doubt, we're talking old money, old establishment.
Interesting about the bombers, definitely swing both ways, and would normally turn up their noses at their neighbours across the river.
Freo linked to the Greens? For real?
Had to smile at the Suns being LNP.
Hawthorn and Melbourne - see Adelaide.

 

[Just interested]

Ill have a guess

Adelaide Crows - Libs (think A Downer, C Pyne)
Brisbane Lions - neutral
Carlton - Libs
Collingwood - ALP (think Eddie)
Essendon (ALP Kelty but also Libs with Costello)
Fremantle - ALP/Greens
Geelong - ALP
GWS - AFL creation - loyal to head office/marginal seat battle ground/Demetriou/ALP leaning (C Bowen)
Gold Coast Suns - LNP
Hawthorn - Libs
Melbourne - Libs
Norf - ALP
Port Power - ALP
Richmond - ALP
Sydney Swans - neutral
St Kilda - neutral/no allegiance
Bulldogs - ALP
West Coast - Libs

As Freddie Trueman once said, when talking about a young quick suffering Delhi belly in India and describing just how tightly he was clenched, as he ran from the ground to get to a facility before he lost the lot, you "couldn't fit a cigarette paper" between the way the 2 main political parties operate these days.

One of the best examples is the area of PPP's. Desal plant - ALP. East West Link- Libs. No sustainable case for either and both buried under a welter of vested interests and commercial-in-confidence smoke.

ICAC tells the same story - 1st it was the ALP and Obeid, and now it's the Libs' turn. Who comes out on top is in the balance - it might finish up being a tie.

 

[Gigantor]

Yeah, Dec 2010. And?

Look, I'm not discounting anything you say, but you're just throwing things out there that don't connect to the other.

Thompson left Geelong yes. Thompson had worked with Robinson yes. I'll even go to say Robinson was reported to have mentioned Dank in some news article post 2007 Geelong flag.

I can fully appreciate Thompson brought these people into the club. But what has that got to do with land deals, no matter how shonky they are?

So far, all you've shown me is that they all piss in each other's pockets because it's an incestuous industry.

You've alluded to many things but you haven't actually shown proof of how a land deal in Geelong lead to essendon players being used to test AOD let alone the need make Hird a scapegoat

Yes, fair enough questions my good friend, all interesting stuff, but what has it got to do with anything?

Mulling it over, is our new BFF working towards a conclusion whereby an ailing ALP government, on its knees, about to be decimated at the polls, gave one final order from the bunker: that ASADA stop looking into AOD?

Problems:
1. Wouldn't someone have alerted Lundy and co to this little inconvenient fact when they were up there grandstanding about combatting doping? (it's possible that they were too far down the food chain, had a shot of blood, tried to make a name for themselves before anyone worked out what they were up to)
2. Offsetting liberal interests: who now are in charge. Couldn't Downes have come in and said: rightyo everyone, AOD is back on the table, and we're going to go in hard regardless. Wouldn't the current government love to lift the lid on all of these shenanigans?

 

[Happy Daze]

Well known Bombers a Protestant/establishment/Liberal club from way back, though still a swag of RC supporters like my family. Prots = Libs, RC obv the Irish/Labor Party. I know for a fact there were RC players who left the club in the 40s and 50s because of the overt Protestant influence at the club wherein they weren't getting a fair go.

 

[QuietB]

Hi. Long story, but several professionals are working behind the scenes on this. I addressed this issue earlier with another poster.

Are you going to write a book on this?

 

[Gigantor]

Maybe someone should follow Martin Hardie's example with asking the AFP to investigate McDevitt and invite the ATO and ASIC to have a gander as to what was going on?

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly would there be of interest for the ATO and ASIC?

ATO:
I doubt anyone was making any money out of this, so what are we talking about? Write-offs? Utilising tax havens? Shonky commercial structures?

ASIC:
Investment issues? Misleading prospectus? Private company publicly seeking investors? Incomplete statutory reporting?

 

[FuManchu]

Yes, fair enough questions my good friend, all interesting stuff, but what has it got to do with anything?

Mulling it over, is our new BFF working towards a conclusion whereby an ailing ALP government, on its knees, about to be decimated at the polls, gave one final order from the bunker: that ASADA stop looking into AOD?

Problems:
1. Wouldn't someone have alerted Lundy and co to this little inconvenient fact when they were up there grandstanding about combatting doping? (it's possible that they were too far down the food chain, had a shot of blood, tried to make a name for themselves before anyone worked out what they were up to)
2. Offsetting liberal interests: who now are in charge. Couldn't Downes have come in and said: rightyo everyone, AOD is back on the table, and we're going to go in hard regardless. Wouldn't the current government love to lift the lid on all of these shenanigans?

Downes probably never saw the AOD stuff. Not much point really if they had decided not to proceed with it.

 

[Chameleon75]

Yes, fair enough questions my good friend, all interesting stuff, but what has it got to do with anything?

Mulling it over, is our new BFF working towards a conclusion whereby an ailing ALP government, on its knees, about to be decimated at the polls, gave one final order from the bunker: that ASADA stop looking into AOD?

Problems:
1. Wouldn't someone have alerted Lundy and co to this little inconvenient fact when they were up there grandstanding about combatting doping? (it's possible that they were too far down the food chain, had a shot of blood, tried to make a name for themselves before anyone worked out what they were up to)
2. Offsetting liberal interests: who now are in charge. Couldn't Downes have come in and said: rightyo everyone, AOD is back on the table, and we're going to go in hard regardless. Wouldn't the current government love to lift the lid on all of these shenanigans?

Or its the current vic election campaign and has little to do with anything.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly would there be of interest for the ATO and ASIC?

ATO:
I doubt anyone was making any money out of this, so what are we talking about? Write-offs? Utilising tax havens? Shonky commercial structures?

ASIC:
Investment issues? Misleading prospectus? Private company publicly seeking investors? Incomplete statutory reporting?

Was thinking the same thing. And it wasn't the first post to trot out ATO / ASIC.

Even if they made a truckload of cash from the property deal, surely they wouldn't have been stupid enough to not declare any taxable income arising. So, ATO would appear irrelevant here. So would ASIC.

On the other hand, ACC ...