Maths re the new stadium.

[DivideandMultiply]

The stadium will likely be a disaster, at least initially. Cost blowouts and public transport issues are promising to be horrific.

Terrible, terrible location.

 

[greennick]

Sure - the Pyramids were built to attract tourists .. The Harbour Bridge actually had a function just like a railway here. I do understand the benefits of public investment in infrastructure. But it is a matter of priorities and every time I get stuck in traffic because of Elizabeth Quay I am reminded of Barnett's lack of priorities.

A kick arse foreshore is high on my list of priorities. I would much rather have that than a line to Ellenbrook. Given that line will cost around twice what Elizabeth Quay will cost when property sales are taken in to account, it is a no brainer.

If the good people of Ellenbrook wanted to be close to a train station, they should have not bought in the middle of nowhere.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Renovating Subiace is the WORSE IDEA IN THE WORLD. The whole problem with that stadium now is that it has been put together in parts. What part are you planning on keeping? The three tier stand? NAB stand? Subiaco Rd? It is all shit.

Is the "WORSE" idea in the world? Get a hold of yourself man.

Ignoring the hyperbole and ignoring your use of allcaps, the combination of the two along with requisite spelling/grammar errors is positively Perthnow-esque.

 

[greennick]

I can drive there and park near Coles on a Saturday evening, or park near King Edward on a Sunday afternoon. It takes 5 - 10 minutes to drive away after a game. Then there is the train service if I want. Sure there are lots of people around but so what? There's traffic after the game. So what? Burswood plan for you to walk there from the city.

It depends what direction you are going. I never had an issue with it when I was going to the Western Suburbs, but it sucks a big fat one if you need to get on the freeway.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

If the good people of Ellenbrook wanted to be close to a train station, they should have not bought in the middle of nowhere.

Maybe a housing bubble priced them out of the inner suburban real estate market. What a shallow and callous post.

 

[greennick]

Is the "WORSE" idea in the world? Get a hold of yourself man.

Ignoring the hyperbole and ignoring your use of allcaps, the combination of the two along with requisite spelling/grammar errors is positively Perthnow-esque.

oops, worst

sorry grammar police, i'm at work

 

[greennick]

Maybe a housing bubble priced them out of the inner suburban real estate market. What a shallow and callous post.

I don't give a shit why they built out there. There are what, 30k people that live out there? And you want to spend more than $1b building a railway line there?

If they were priced out of the market, then the poor transport is what you put up with to get a new house with 4x2 on 600 sqm. Other options are a smaller city place (I just bought one in Yokine for the same as a place in Ellenbrook) or a place already by a railroad, such as in Midland or Cockburn. You can't build out there to save money and then demand all of WA to stump up for your train line.

Do you live out there? Why the personal interest?

 

[DivideandMultiply]

oops, worst

sorry grammar police, i'm at work

I would fine you "your dignity", but have a feeling payment would not be forthcoming.

These stadium threads often remind me that the ancient Romans really did have a shrewd understanding of human behaviour.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

I am completely opposed to the idea of WA Labour re-investigating the site of the stadium if they win the election. Its completely ludicrous, stupid, moronic, idiotic and unfair to all West Australians . Though the fact that Barnett announced that we were going to build a Stadium in Burswood over a year ago now, yet said he wouldn't sign off on it until after the next election is the biggest load of croc $hit i have ever heard. He has fvcked us (football fans) around for four years, leading us on at the start of every football season with talk of how we need a new stadium just so he can pretend he is doing something about it and win the next election. Both are pigs but now we are at the election someone just build this state of the art stadium. I couldn't care less if it was over budget, It needs to be built. To those whinging about roads, hospitals and schools shut the heck up. We've got these new hospitals coming, Schools are being built and catch a fvcken train or ferry.

Rant over.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

I don't give a shit why they built out there. There are what, 30k people that live out there? And you want to spend more than $1b building a railway line there?

So you are now the voice for the majority eh? Ever self appointment to such a role brings out the callow tyrant.

No, in fact I am more a Victorian than West Aussie.

Was there not an election promise to build the Ellenbrook/Morley line?

Public transport infrastructure is also not just about barely meeting current demand, it is about planning for future expansion. Otherwise you end up in the mess Victoria is in.

Having said that, how many proposed stops along the Ellenbrook/Morley line? Surely the 30k residents of Ellenbrook are not the only people whom will be serviced by the line.

I am also an advocate for a new stadium, but the Burswood location seems to be ill conceived and makes me question who the ultimate beneficiaries are intended to be, the Western Australian public or Barnett, Packer and assorted contractors with deep pockets.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

I am completely opposed to the idea of WA Labour re-investigating the site of the stadium if they win the election. Its completely ludicrous, stupid, moronic, idiotic and unfair to all West Australians . Though the fact that Barnett announced that we were going to build a Stadium in Burswood over a year ago now, yet said he wouldn't sign off on it until after the next election is the biggest load of croc $hit i have ever heard. He has fvcked us (football fans) around for four years, leading us on at the start of every football season with talk of how we need a new stadium just so he can pretend he is doing something about it and win the next election. Both are pigs but now we are at the election someone just build this state of the art stadium. I couldn't care less if it was over budget, It needs to be built. To those whinging about roads, hospitals and schools shut the heck up. We've got these new hospitals coming, Schools are being built and catch a fvcken train or ferry.

Rant over.

I believe this is also a problem.

 

[Chris_6678]

I am completely opposed to the idea of WA Labour re-investigating the site of the stadium if they win the election. Its completely ludicrous, stupid, moronic, idiotic and unfair to all West Australians . Though the fact that Barnett announced that we were going to build a Stadium in Burswood over a year ago now, yet said he wouldn't sign off on it until after the next election is the biggest load of croc $hit i have ever heard. He has fvcked us (football fans) around for four years, leading us on at the start of every football season with talk of how we need a new stadium just so he can pretend he is doing something about it and win the next election. Both are pigs but now we are at the election someone just build this state of the art stadium. I couldn't care less if it was over budget, It needs to be built. To those whinging about roads, hospitals and schools shut the heck up. We've got these new hospitals coming, Schools are being built and catch a fvcken train or ferry.

Rant over.

Hahaha well said mate.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

I believe this is also a problem.

I know but at least the construction of a stadium will ensure we invest into our rail lines and trains. People talking about roads should walk and catch a train. Western Australians should be more willing to change their habits and embrace public transport as an option for transport and I'm certain our attitudes will change as the infrastructure is built and completed. BE OPEN TO CHANGE FFS

 

[greennick]

So you are now the voice for the majority eh? Ever self appointment to such a role brings out the callow tyrant.

???


I'm only offering my opinion. Not pretending to be the majority at all. Just as you are offering yours.

No, in fact I am more a Victorian than West Aussie.

Was there not an election promise to build the Ellenbrook/Morley line?

Not the point I was arguing. I really couldn't care for Barnett's lines over what was a core or non core promise or whatever it was. Though, I believe he never promised it so it wasn't costed, though it was written on flyers distributed in the area.

Public transport infrastructure is also not just about barely meeting current demand, it is about planning for future expansion. Otherwise you end up in the mess Victoria is in.

Having said that, how many proposed stops along the Ellenbrook/Morley line? Surely the 30k residents of Ellenbrook are not the only people whom will be serviced by the line.

There is a time and place for that investment, I believe we have bigger priorities now than that line with only have a few thousand people travelling on it. In 5 years once this infrastructure is built, then it is worth a re-visit?

I am also an advocate for a new stadium, but the Burswood location seems to be ill conceived and makes me question who the ultimate beneficiaries are intended to be, the Western Australian public or Barnett, Packer and assorted contractors with deep pockets.

I used to be totally against Burswood, but I've come around to it as it will be nice to go somewhere you can go out after. And I'm not talking about the casino, but all the places that are planned for the precinct around it.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

I know but at least the construction of a stadium will ensure we invest into our rail lines and trains. People talking about roads should walk and catch a train. Western Australians should be more willing to change their habits and embrace public transport as an option for transport and I'm certain our attitudes will change as the infrastructure is built and completed. BE OPEN TO CHANGE FFS

Oh, I agree that West Aussies need to embrace change and embrace the public transport option, but proposed upgrades will not fix the public transport issues that the stadium will exacerbate.

Barnett will have the legacy of the stadium (if he wins this election), but whoever follows will have to deal with a veritable public transport and parking nightmare, likewise gaping budgetary holes caused by the inevitable cost blowouts.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Oh, I agree that West Aussies need to embrace change and embrace the public transport option, but proposed upgrades will not fix the public transport issues that the stadium will exacerbate.

Barnett will have the legacy of the stadium (if he wins this election), but whoever follows will have to deal with a veritable public transport and parking nightmare, likewise gaping budgetary holes caused by the inevitable cost blowouts.

IF he wins. Of course he will win. I could just about name every Liberal running in the election due to the number of signs on bus stops, trailers, bilboards, cars, etc WA Labor dont even have a 0.01% of that advertisement. Not to mention that most governments serve twice. But thats beside the point.

Back to the issue. Yes, but at the same time couldn't a government come in and leave their own public transport legacy in WA. Once the stadiums is built we really wont need a new one for long while if they plan ahead. Surely the "Mark McGowan" of 2017 or 2023 will come in with his/her "Metronet" that will change the way WA uses public transport. ****Assuming Labor dont win the election.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Well, they will certainly get mine.
The Burswood option was chosen by Barnett in his Emperor mode. He, and only he, made the decision after meeting with Packer. He chose to ignore the recommendations of a panel set up to make that decision. The costs quoted are as rubbery as anything and do not take account of the almost certain engineering problems of that site. The transport solution is a pig in a poke.
The $1.2b -$1.5 billion or whatever is to suit the same 100000 people (Eagles and Dockers members) who will go to the footy for half the year. Rugby and soccer are in East Perth. Most of the time the stadium would be empty. It is an extravagance that we would be better putting off and spending the money on more widely used infrastructure projects like trains and roads.

I like the idea that something that pretty much every advanced and prosperous city in the world has is considered an extravagance. Now if you are arguing about utility then your probably going to miss the point about the stadium and also life in general, you mention transport, transportation is about moving, it's never about places or events. Which is what a good transport policy should do it should connect places (not just regions as MetroNet does) the question people need to ask is what is Labor's rail proposal connecting? At one end you have Railway stations locked in-between four or more lanes of traffic, surrounded by car parks, in scarcely definable suburbs to the city and the airport, it's a farce and wont fix anything.


The stadium needs upgrading and will be upgraded in time irrespective of who is in office over the next fifteen years. Now the question therefore needs to be asked what’s the best location and whats the best form of upgrade? Now Burswood was one of three shot listed sites so it's not a radical or outrageously grotesque decision to put it there.

Burwood has extra ground works costs but the argument that it has extra transport costs associated with it is a strenuous one because Subiaco proposals simple neglects to cater for the additional crowd numbers.


A new stadium has all sorts of benefits over a refurbishment. Longevity on the investment made, design freedom, condensed construction program, no staged construction ect...

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Oh, I agree that West Aussies need to embrace change and embrace the public transport option, but proposed upgrades will not fix the public transport issues that the stadium will exacerbate.

Barnett will have the legacy of the stadium (if he wins this election), but whoever follows will have to deal with a veritable public transport and parking nightmare, likewise gaping budgetary holes caused by the inevitable cost blowouts.

And Labors MetroNet will exacerbate the problems on our railway lines, ie: commute times to outer suburbs, train stacking and it's seriously under budgeted.

Labors policy with both the stadium and public transport is to it quickly and worry about fixing the inherit failures later. It's a big turn around from what they achieved with the Mandurah railway line.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

The train line to Ellenbrook wasn't a short term promise anyway, it was when required. Is not feasible to build a new rail line for a minority.
I take it you never catch the mandurah line after a game. One puny underpass access to get onto a puny open air platform.

Which is being solved by the City Link project and could be solved better still by an extension of the Thornlie line spur to the Mandurah line. Which will happen eventually with or without Metronet.

 

[Smeg Head]

Public Transport is only part of the solution to congestion. Almost all cars only have one driver in them and you would also want to decentralize some of the businesses and services out of the City center in the long term. And for people who complain trains and crowded in, same as cars theres only so many you can put down a line. If everyone starts work at the same place at the same time nothing short of a fleet of star trek style teleporter banks would move everyone there (and even then someone would find something about it too slow).

Just build the damn shiny new stadium and let us bask in a new glorious football future where some of us can occasionally get a ticket!

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Unlucky! The residents of Ellenbrook chose to move to a place with little to no public transport infrastructure. To whine now, and to appease these residents would be folly.

Indeed. If you live in low density suburbs far away from the city you shouldn't expect high frequency PT services with good coverage. PT is very viable when the populations exist to support it.

You should campaign to have council amalgamations and for Park and Ride facilities to be moved either away from train stations to make way for better TOD's or into the abyss.

 

[Smeg Head]

Which is being solved by the City Link project and could be solved better still by an extension of the Thornlie line spur to the Mandurah line. Which will happen eventually with or without Metronet.

Half of the Thornlie spur line extension is the Metronet route. Thing is thats Brookfield or something like that that owns it, have the budgeted the cost of buying out some of these rail links that are already there as diesel freight lines.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Public Transport is only part of the solution to congestion. Almost all cars only have one driver in them and you would also want to decentralize some of the businesses and services out of the City center in the long term. And for people who complain trains and crowded in, same as cars theres only so many you can put down a line. If everyone starts work at the same place at the same time nothing short of a fleet of star trek style teleporter banks would move everyone there (and even then someone would find something about it too slow).

Just build the damn shiny new stadium and let us bask in a new glorious football future where some of us can occasionally get a ticket!

Decentralising Perth creates even more problems, thats unless you can get people living closer to these places of work.

 

[Smeg Head]

Decentralising Perth creates even more problems, thats unless you can get people living closer to these places of work.

Yeah thats what I mean. Long terms is the only way to really solve congestion is to cut down the distances people have to travel.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Sure - the Pyramids were built to attract tourists .. The Harbour Bridge actually had a function just like a railway here. I do understand the benefits of public investment in infrastructure. But it is a matter of priorities and every time I get stuck in traffic because of Elizabeth Quay I am reminded of Barnett's lack of priorities.

Really - how many of the 2m in the State see it as a massive need?

The Waterfront project is about re imagining and reorientating Perth.

If it came down to utility and function you would not be using our foreshore as a city bypass route and you probably wouldn't be driving such impractical distances to such unsustainable and disposable suburbs.