Matt Rendell...

[King Elvis]

Re: Matt Rendall...

Yes they will have a far better chance of being successful in an incredibly tightly structured, predominantly white AFL system.

The AFL system is absolutely rigid and totally, utterly different from life in remote communities.

My god he is trying to come up with ways of making the transition easier and you are saying that is racist.

Apparently part of the issue with Jurrah was Neeld & Co (who I rate immensely) refusing to allow him the same leniency when it came to training/fitness standards that Bailey did; kinda proves his point.

It either means they don't fully believe the Rendell version or they are a valueless organisation more concerned with the perception of values than having them.

Pains me to say it, but I think it's the bold.

He directly linked having two aboriginal parents to having an unstable upbringing.

No, he didn't - he linked it with having a more relaxed, less structured upbringing, in remote communities - which Misfud agree with.

SACK MISFUD!!

 

[King Elvis]

Re: Matt Rendall...

What's to say Adelaide hasn't recently overlooked an aboriginal player with two black parents while Rendall has been in charge of recruitment? Do you think they'd be entitled to take Adelaide / AFL to court based on Rendall's comments? I reckon they would.

Did you miss him relating the Milera drafting?

He was a young aboriginal kid that a hell of a lot of Crows supporters rated, but he was a bit of a fatty and always struggled with the demands of being an SANFL player, let alone an AFL player - but he clearly had talent.

So Rendell got the Crows to draft him, but clearly spelt out the above, and demanded that the Crows were willing to make allowances for Milera if we were to recruit him.

We did; but he quit within his first year because he couldn't handle the demands.

 

[cammo78]

Re: Matt Rendall...

Finally, someone else who didn't buy his "poor me" sob story.

Did he offend you?

And if so, how and why?

I'd suggest that those who have A RIGHT to be offended by such comments most likely agree with them and want more action to address the core issue behind them.

Not people being offended on their behalf.

 

[King Elvis]

That, sir/madam, is what led to the Stolen Generation. Who are white people to say they do it better and that everyone should be like white people?

They'd be given the option to do it, if they wanted to pursue an AFL Career, if they didn't want to, they wouldn't have to.

Were the AIS players we sent to South Africa or Ireland to play footy, kidnapped?

What a shit comment by you.

(a) getting into a good school is always better than regional schooling.
You added the racist emphasis here - I've deleted it, would you disagree with the above?
(b) get a good education because an aboriginal boy couldn't possible get a good education close to their family and parents in their local language / culture.
What does local culture and language have to do with being able to read and write? Nobody is saying that, except you. A lot of rural people send their kids to metro boarding schools - why is that?
(c) if you didn't go to a good school and get a good education, you couldn't possibly get into or succeed in a job / professional AFL environment.
Again, you've twisted the idea to make that claim, not Rendell.

 

[yebiga]

There are too many reporters trying to extract any scandal, gossip or innuendo. With each passing year their over-reach becomes more disgusting: from Carey, Fevola, Nixon and now with Rendell we have someone who could not be more innocent.

This is AFL not as sport but as morality play; it is "gotcha" moments and "witch hunts". We are now accustomed to accept this feigned outrage as legitimate. We have annoited the likes of Patrick Smith and Caroline Wilson to determine what words can be spoken and what they really mean or could mean.

Sadly, Demetriou is exactly like most of our leaders in the corporate and political world - they have no real genuine principled position at all: not on race, gender, ethics, or anything else contentious. In itself this is no indictment as the world is too busy keeping up with it self to allow for adequate reflection.

Faced with this Rendell situation, the merest hint of racism and Demetriou's has got into a hot lather called Adelaide and Adelaide did what he hoped they would do. Voila - Andrew had dealt with the perception.

The saddest part to all of this is that Rendell has displayed a compassion for indeienous players and issues that Demetriou and our high priest journo's simply do not have becuase they live in the veneer of twisting words and managing perception.

 

[RocknRoll]

Re: Matt Rendall...

Wrong.
Correct answer is "the presumption of innocence".

Maybe I need to spell it out. Consider the two options:

1) MR has developed a policy of only recruiting indigenous players who have one white parent but decided to put it on hold because last year he recruited Cam Ellis-Yolman (2 indigenous parents), which clearly demonstrates there was no such policy last year

2) There is no such policy at all.

Occam's Razor*, clearly indicates option 2 explains events with fewest assumptions, so is more likely to be correct.

*Occam's razor (also written as Ockham's razor) is the English equivalent of the Latin lex parsimoniae --- the law of parsimony, economy or succinctness. It is a principle urging one to select among competing hypotheses that which makes the fewest assumptions and thereby offers the simplest explanation of the effect. (Wikipedia)

 

[Woodson]

Re: Matt Rendall...

THREAD NEEDS A POLL.

(Sorry for yelling, we need to send a message to the AFL. Phrase the question any way you like, the poll result will show overwhelming support for Rendell.)

Meh.... sorry polls on BF mean jack sh**. If the common club supporters united as one to drive home the message to the AFL, that would mean 'media paying attention' then you have something to roll with but since very few are willing to put any principals into practise then all these debates (of disgust with AFL incompetence) on a forum rendered meaningless.

If I were Matt Rendall, I would of laid it on the line with putting the burning question (blow torch) to the AFL by asking why they need to be stubborn and ignorant? Garry Lyon just embarrassed himself with such a childish question....

 

[King Elvis]

Why did Buddy go at pick 5?

Cyril at pick 12?

Clubs generally don't seem to like using top draft picks on aboriginal players.

Rendell wanted to recruit Cyril - Rioli threw the interview, deliberately interviewed poorly, and told Rendell that if he was recruited by a team outside of Melbourne, he'd leave as soon as his first contract was up.

 

[BrunoV]

Re: Matt Rendall...

Maybe I need to spell it out. Consider the two options:

1) MR has developed a policy of only recruiting indigenous players who have one white parent but decided to put it on hold because last year he recruited Cam Ellis-Yolman (2 indigenous parents), which clearly demonstrates there was no such policy last year

2) There is no such policy at all.

Occam's Razor*, clearly indicates option 2 explains events with fewest assumptions, so is more likely to be correct.

*Occam's razor (also written as Ockham's razor) is the English equivalent of the Latin lex parsimoniae --- the law of parsimony, economy or succinctness. It is a principle urging one to select among competing hypotheses that which makes the fewest assumptions and thereby offers the simplest explanation of the effect. (Wikipedia)

I know he said you were wrong but you and Slattery are basically in agreement.

Slattery was just saying that it doesn't even need to go as far as you've taken it. There is no evidence that Rendall has done anything wrong and/or is racist (except for hear say of hear say) and that on that basis he is innocent until someone can acutally come up with evidence that would support a finding that his empassioned plea from last night was a lie.

He is line 1 of defence and you are 2 (if required).

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

Re: Matt Rendall...

I'm surprised at the amount of people who are now supporting Rendell...

First of all, I just wanna say I don't think he is racist, I don't think he meant anything racist by his comments and I'm sure his heart was in the right place.

But come on, what he said was screwed up and of course he deserves to be punished for it.

He directly linked having two aboriginal parents to having an unstable upbringing. He used the word "white". He brought colour into it. I'm sure there's plenty of aboriginals with two aboriginal parents out there who are far more stable than a lot of white people with two white parents. But Rendell made it out, with his comments, that in the future he could see it going to to a place where there had to be ONE WHITE PARENT.

Whether he was ever going to join in on this recruiting policy, or whether he had used it in the past is irrelevant. He made the insinuation that one white parent is "better" than two black parents. A throwaway comment or not, that's no good.

He said nothing about having 2 aboriginal parents leads to an unstable upbringing. He was referring to the transition from a way of life in aboriginal communities to the full on schedule of AFL within a big city to be difficult. Im sure there are plenty of white people with unstable parents. But they dont live in remote communities, and wouldnt find the transition in life styles as complex.

It has nothing to do with which parent colour mix is better, it was who was better suited to adapting to AFL football lifestyle.

 

[Slattery_20]

Re: Matt Rendall...

Maybe I need to spell it out. Consider the two options:

1) MR has developed a policy of only recruiting indigenous players who have one white parent but decided to put it on hold because last year he recruited Cam Ellis-Yolman (2 indigenous parents), which clearly demonstrates there was no such policy last year

2) There is no such policy at all.

Occam's Razor*, clearly indicates option 2 explains events with fewest assumptions, so is more likely to be correct.

*Occam's razor (also written as Ockham's razor) is the English equivalent of the Latin lex parsimoniae --- the law of parsimony, economy or succinctness. It is a principle urging one to select among competing hypotheses that which makes the fewest assumptions and thereby offers the simplest explanation of the effect. (Wikipedia)

Err... I was saying... presumption of innocence (ie that no such policy does or ever did exist) is clearly the obvious answer. You don't have to provide any example to refute the suggestion, it's that ridiculous.



People seriously suggesting this guy has been around for 10 odd years, in a couple of different clubs, with probably a hundred different players, coaches & staff - as a card carrying, hood-wearing, practising racist, and NOBODY NOTICED - until some internet hero, just then, from half-way across the country.
It's ridiculous.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Rendell wanted to recruit Cyril - Rioli threw the interview, deliberately interviewed poorly, and told Rendell that if he was recruited by a team outside of Melbourne, he'd leave as soon as his first contract was up.

I am still confused as to why Rioli has not had a 'please explain' letter from the AFL about compromising the draft he did with that statement. Other players have had fines etc imposed on them for saying they only want to play for a certain club. Double standard going on here by the AFL.

 

[neroblack]

Re: Matt Rendall...

Did he offend you?

And if so, how and why?

I'd suggest that those who have A RIGHT to be offended by such comments most likely agree with them and want more action to address the core issue behind them.

Not people being offended on their behalf.

Exactly right. It seems to be people who are either only partially informed, or don't understand what was said who just automatically assume racism because there was a reference to indigenous people, and someone accused Rendall of being racist.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

Re: Matt Rendall...

What's to say Adelaide hasn't recently overlooked an aboriginal player with two black parents while Rendall has been in charge of recruitment? Do you think they'd be entitled to take Adelaide / AFL to court based on Rendall's comments? I reckon they would.

If there was a set order in which each kid was to be drafted and Adelaide purposefully skipped an Aboriginal kid then sure, why not. But clubs draft who they want with the picks they have.

The aboriginal attrition rate is a fact, it cannot be denied. Nor can the reasons for this, each and every Aboriginal kid who has struggled to adapt to AFL will admit this. It is also no different to Adelaide not selecting a white kid because he is from QLD and has a likeliness to suffer from homesickness. Rendells job is to select the best, most suitable, and most likely career players in each draft regardless of any individual aspects of the person being selected

 

[Slattery_20]

I am still confused as to why Rioli has not had a 'please explain' letter from the AFL about compromising the draft he did with that statement. Other players have had fines etc imposed on them for saying they only want to play for a certain club. Double standard going on here by the AFL.

One of the snippets I heard of Rendell this morning was "we had a fantastic interview" and they went for an hour. He said Rioli had told him he would like to go home at times, but had been told in no uncertain terms by his mum that he was staying @ Scotch and not welcome back!
Maybe that's got something to do with it?

 

[Baldur]

Randell was not making a point about race, the race issue is a furphy, he was making a point about culture. In particular how the toxic culture prevalent at AFL clubs is hindering the ability of indigenous kids to play in the AFL.

The culture at AFL clubs appears to me to be the very worst of private boarding schools taken to absurd levels. Everybody must march in lockstep, no individually is allowed, the head prefects (leadership group) are tin gods who must be obeyed. Any minor breach of uniform dullness will be punished.

Look at the Bernie Vince situation, has a beer in a locked hotel in his boxers while celebrating with his mates. So what, but the culture at the AFL clubs made it an issue. Aker, no handstands, too individual. NikNat, no slam dunks. I could create an essay about over reactions to signs of individually at AFL clubs.

No wonder lots of kids have issues complying & no wonder that lots of draftees come from private schools. Kids from socio economic groups where this form of strict conformance is frowned on have greater issues. Indigenous kids have more than most, the culture shock is extreme.

According indigenous kids have more problems when they are drafted & are more likely to leave a club because of cultural issues then non-indigenous kids. This is not to say that non-indigenous kids do not also have issues or that there is any wrong with the indigenous kids. They are not the problem; the AFL culture is the problem.

By saying as an extreme hypothetical that recruiters may avoid kids without one white parent, Rendell was not saying that black parents are bad. But rather that an indigenous kid with one white parent may have a greater insight into the kind of culture that he will have to suffer at an AFL club.

He was trying to get the AFL ingenious affairs officer to see that the way the AFL is pushing this overly strict culture in the AFL is damaging to the ability of indigenous kids to fit in. But instead of accepting that the AFL has a problem, they put their heads in the sand & shot the messenger.

The media by blowing every little thing into a huge scandal for their own profit have a large part of the blame here. But the AFL & clubs have been weak, when the media go on an witch hunt the solution is not to grab a burning brand & join in but tell them to their face that they are clowns.

Let alone the witch hunters we have here at Bigfooty shouting racist, racist, light the bonfire.

 

[MattyB_76]

Re: Matt Rendall...

Rendall has proposed something (implicitly). Who's to say he hasn't acted? No, native title is not racist - it's recognising a land right. Yes, other "lauded social developments" are racially discriminatory, but they are not unlawful because they have been excluded by statute (by both Liberal and Labor governments).

And I won't even bother with your reference to women's rights activists in the 1960s.. pretty hard to argue that lobbying for equal opportunity could be sexist! Rendall hasn't lobbied for anything here..

Are you from 'bizarro world', because that's exactly what he has done!

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

That, sir/madam, is what led to the Stolen Generation. Who are white people to say they do it better and that everyone should be like white people?

No its not. Guns were involved...

But seriously how can you say that? I guess all the government assistance plans are the same too then? Their not designed to help Aboriginals at all, its all just a Governemnt ploy to turn them into white folk...

Its not about white people saying they do things better you fool. Its just FACTS that AFL is more demanding than local community football, and its FACT that better preparation would help.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

so i suppose you think:

(a) getting into a good [white] school is always better than regional [non-white] schooling.
(b) get a good education because an aboriginal boy couldn't possible get a good education close to their family and parents in their local language / culture.
(c) if you didn't go to a good school and get a good education, you couldn't possibly get into or succeed in a job / professional afl environment.

siiiiiigggghhhhhfaaaaceee

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

Re: Matt Rendall...

I can't be bothered with you all now. I just now know how Tony Abbott gets so many votes.

Bigger picture people, bigger picture.

Your bringing the bigger picture into this which is one of the problems. Your looking so far outside the box that this issue is contained within that you are bringing up completely irrelevant topics

 

[TerryWallet]

Re: Matt Rendall...

No. It was only one.



Nobody, and I mean nobody, disses Andy D's lovechild and gets away with it.

Unfortunately, Rendell's not political enough to realise that when you make comments like that, you've got to keep your head down otherwise heavyweights with an agenda come after you.

The AFL is more politics than sport. Which is why I'm losing interest in it.

Rendell is very political. Don't worry about that.

Grant Thomas, Rendell and Robbo are great mates and have long seen themselves as the troika who will win their personal war with Vlad.

The depth of feeling between Thomas, (the leader of the troika) and Demetriou is extreme and a major factor in this story.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Randell was not making a point about race, the race issue is a furphy, he was making a point about culture. In particular how the toxic culture prevalent at AFL clubs is hindering the ability of indigenous kids to play in the AFL.

The culture at AFL clubs appears to me to be the very worst of private boarding schools taken to absurd levels. Everybody must march in lockstep, no individually is allowed, the head prefects (leadership group) are tin gods who must be obeyed. Any minor breach of uniform dullness will be punished.

Look at the Bernie Vince situation, has a beer in a locked hotel in his boxers while celebrating with his mates. So what, but the culture at the AFL clubs made it an issue. Aker, no handstands, too individual. NikNat, no slam dunks. I could create an essay about over reactions to signs of individually at AFL clubs.

No wonder lots of kids have issues complying & no wonder that lots of draftees come from private schools. Kids from socio economic groups where this form of strict conformance is frowned on have greater issues. Indigenous kids have more than most, the culture shock is extreme.

According indigenous kids have more problems when they are drafted & are more likely to leave a club because of cultural issues then non-indigenous kids. This is not to say that non-indigenous kids do not also have issues or that there is any wrong with the indigenous kids. They are not the problem; the AFL culture is the problem.

By saying as an extreme hypothetical that recruiters may avoid kids without one white parent, Rendell was not saying that black parents are bad. But rather that an indigenous kid with one white parent may have a greater insight into the kind of culture that he will have to suffer at an AFL club.

He was trying to get the AFL ingenious affairs officer to see that the way the AFL is pushing this overly strict culture in the AFL is damaging to the ability of indigenous kids to fit in. But instead of accepting that the AFL has a problem, they put their heads in the sand & shot the messenger.

The media by blowing every little thing into a huge scandal for their own profit have a large part of the blame here. But the AFL & clubs have been weak, when the media go on an witch hunt the solution is not to grab a burning brand & join in but tell them to their face that they are clowns.

Let alone the witch hunters we have here at Bigfooty shouting racist, racist, light the bonfire.

Top post. I think it sums up perfectly what most who have a clue and aren't prejudiced one way or another believe to be the situation here.

No-one's saying that "white parents are better than indigenous parents", he was simply suggesting that those brought up with at least one that is likely to have come from a more structured background (that is more likely to be aware of what it takes to live in the "big smoke", etc) are more likely to be able to handle the requirements of playing in the AFL and living in a big city.

Those with an axe to grind are clearly doing their best to twist his words though and in doing so are trying to bury someone that was clearly working towards trying to improve the situation for everyone. Well done.

 

[Plugger35]

There are too many reporters trying to extract any scandal, gossip or innuendo. With each passing year their over-reach becomes more disgusting: from Carey, Fevola, Nixon and now with Rendell we have someone who could not be more innocent.

This is AFL not as sport but as morality play; it is "gotcha" moments and "witch hunts". We are now accustomed to accept this feigned outrage as legitimate. We have annoited the likes of Patrick Smith and Caroline Wilson to determine what words can be spoken and what they really mean or could mean.

Sadly, Demetriou is exactly like most of our leaders in the corporate and political world - they have no real genuine principled position at all: not on race, gender, ethics, or anything else contentious. In itself this is no indictment as the world is too busy keeping up with it self to allow for adequate reflection.

Faced with this Rendell situation, the merest hint of racism and Demetriou's has got into a hot lather called Adelaide and Adelaide did what he hoped they would do. Voila - Andrew had dealt with the perception.

The saddest part to all of this is that Rendell has displayed a compassion for indeienous players and issues that Demetriou and our high priest journo's simply do not have becuase they live in the veneer of twisting words and managing perception.

Yeah the football media in this country just gets worse and worse, they are in such a hurry to sensationalise and create a scandal out of a situation that they quite often overlook the facts either deliberately or through lack of research.

You only have to look at the media's disgraceful behaviour during the Kim Duthie saga of a year or so ago. The media were quick to vilify St Kilda and it's players based on Duthie's version of events without actually researching the facts, then when it subsequently came out that it was all lies they quickly washed their hands of it and didn't apologise for all the mud they had thrown at St Kilda and it's players.

The same thing has happened in the Rendell case with the media jumping to conclusions and insinuating that Rendell is racist based on one out of context comment without actually researching the true context of his comments and the real issue he was trying to address with the drafting of indigenous players. Of course now that he has been sacked and his reputation sullied there won't be a word of an apology from the media, in fact morons like Caroline Wilson have the audacity to suggest that Rendell still owes them and everyone else an apology. It's laughable.

On top of that Demetriou, who chastised the media for not showing due diligence when reporting on the Duthie saga, is equally as guilty as the media in this instance of jumping to conclusions without researching the facts. I'm guessing we won't be hearing an apology from him or the AFL either for the treatment of Rendell, they will just try to deflect and sweep the issue under the carpet like they do with everything else that makes them look bad.

 

[Papa G]

So let me get this straight.

A man allegedly attacks and stabs his cousin with a machette and gets support and understanding from the AFL.

A man allegedly makes a comment in a private conversation that allegedly if taken out of context could be considered racist - AFL demands his resignation.

What a world we live in.

 

[Filthy Fielke]

Re: Matt Rendall...

I think the bigger picture is appropriate.

Personally I can't stand the unexamined assumption that everyone in the world really wants to live a bourgeois liberal life and so any means can justify that end.

Something that most non-Indigenous, and some Indigenous, people don't realise is that people on remote communities aren't pining for a city life where they can become successful doctors and lawyers. They have a perfectly valid life and way of being. Sure, like every society there are problems, but not every community is the same, and those problems are not fixed by destroying their way of life.

However, becoming an AFL footballer is actually something that some kids on communities aspire to, and making that dream become a reality is not paternalism. This is why it is not akin to the Stolen Generations, because it is about facilitating choice and not thrusting unwanted life decisions on to people.

Assuming that becoming an AFL footballer is some sort of escape from a horrible Hobbessian nightmare (to conflate quotes from little Johnnie and Martin Flannagan) is more racist than anything Rendell has ever said.