Meaningless stats and very poor choices

[CaptainDangerfield]

I must admit I have been keeping an eye on the tackle count this year and have used this stat as an example to show the improvement in both Matty Bode and Brent Reilly's game. On Saturday Reilly had a phenemonal 9 tackles and Bodey a respectable 5. But could this stat be deceiving. Is it more a case of, due to their lack of leg speed, they are being consistently beaten to the contest.
Another example of seemingly ineffectual stats is the half time stats from the Port V St Kilda game. I was listening to the half time summation and the commentator stated while S Burgoyne and K Cornes had pretty the same amount of stats, SB had moved the ball forward an amazing 300+ metres
( could have been yards ) whereas K Cornes moved the ball forward only a disappointing 60+.

This thread is probably a case of stating the obvious but my question is are we overrating the performances of guys like Reilly and Bode because of meaningless stats?

Thoughts.

 

[arrowman]

It's true that the (new this year) "forward movement" stat is exposing some of the myths of the pure possession count - and the Burgoyne v Cornes example is a textbook example. I think you'd find a few Port supporters agreeing with the commentator on that one.

As for tackles - well yes, you do get to lay more tackles when you're second to the ball, but on the other hand everyone is second to the ball sometimes, and what counts is what you do in that situation. Making the effort (and having the skill) to lay a good tackle counts for something.

For Bode - I think the tackle count is a positive for him, because it's all about forward line pressure and keeping the ball inside the forward 50. As a small forward he's often going to be in that situation (where the defenders are there in numbers and getting the ball) so in general I think his tackle count is a positive.

Less so, perhaps, for Reilly, because he is in a position where you expect him to be first to the ball. Still, when you're getting shellacked like we were on Saturday, Reilly had a few mates in that department and you could say at least he was making the tackles. Plus it's an indicator of him stepping up a notch, as I think most of us would agree, he has an edge (and tackling) to his game that has improved.

So - yes, we should read tackle counts with caution but perhaps over a longer period (especially in Reilly's case) that just last Saturday.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

It's true that the (new this year) "forward movement" stat is exposing some of the myths of the pure possession count - and the Burgoyne v Cornes example is a textbook example. I think you'd find a few Port supporters agreeing with the commentator on that one.

As for tackles - well yes, you do get to lay more tackles when you're second to the ball, but on the other hand everyone is second to the ball sometimes, and what counts is what you do in that situation. Making the effort (and having the skill) to lay a good tackle counts for something.

For Bode - I think the tackle count is a positive for him, because it's all about forward line pressure and keeping the ball inside the forward 50. As a small forward he's often going to be in that situation (where the defenders are there in numbers and getting the ball) so in general I think his tackle count is a positive.

Less so, perhaps, for Reilly, because he is in a position where you expect him to be first to the ball. Still, when you're getting shellacked like we were on Saturday, Reilly had a few mates in that department and you could say at least he was making the tackles. Plus it's an indicator of him stepping up a notch, as I think most of us would agree, he has an edge (and tackling) to his game that has improved.

So - yes, we should read tackle counts with caution but perhaps over a longer period (especially in Reilly's case) that just last Saturday.

I see where your coming from Arrowman and I agree to a certain extent. No doubt Reilly's work rate and hardness at the contest has increased dramatically this year but is it manily to little affect. Which is the more important midfielder, the guy who makes the play or the guy who negates the play. I would have thought the former would be the obvious answer but then last years GF put paid to that theory. Or was that just a freak exception to the rule.

 

[arrowman]

I see where your coming from Arrowman and I agree to a certain extent. No doubt Reilly's work rate and hardness at the contest has increased dramatically this year but is it manily to little affect. Which is the more important midfielder, the guy who makes the play or the guy who negates the play.

I agree, he has the potential to be a Goodwin but he has a way to go.

I guess I would say I wouldn't criticise him because of his tackle count, so much as say he has a way to go despite it.

I would have thought the former would be the obvious answer but then last years GF put paid to that theory. Or was that just a freak exception to the rule.

Probably an exception but one likely to be repeated in the future. If we play v WCE or Melbourne in the GF our negaters (negators? ) will be just as important as the playmakers.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I agree, he has the potential to be a Goodwin but he has a way to go.

I guess I would say I wouldn't criticise him because of his tackle count, so much as say he has a way to go despite it.
Probably an exception but one likely to be repeated in the future. If we play v WCE or Melbourne in the GF our negaters (negators? ) will be just as important as the playmakers.

I think our midfield matches up well against Melbourne. The only midfield I would be concerned about would be West Coasts and to a lesser extent St Kildas.

 

[Cap]

But you can’t sugest that a midfielder who has a high tackle count is negating the pay, the Adelaide midfield was overwhelmed on the weekend and it was constantly being out numbered you should expect a high tackle count.
I think the tackle stat can’t be compared to different games they need to be taken on a game to game basis,
As for Bodes tackles is his tackle count high because he has good defensive pressure or that he is always getting a bath while in the forward line !

This thread is probably a case of stating the obvious but my question is are we overrating the performances of guys like Reilly and Bode because of meaningless stats?

I have to say I think we underrate players because of meaningless stats (and some stats they people view as being important)
Being honest how important of a stat is the kick to a HBF whose job it is to shut down a forward? When you ask someone who a player went you always get the “he only had a few touches” but is that a good thing?

Really to be useful stats need to be more relevant to the position you play, the movement forward stat is going to help this but I think a stat like effective spoils or handballs to advantage would be just as interesting