Melbourne crowds on the improve

[syphon]

v Penrith

1998: 10500
1999: 12056
2000: 11156
2001: 8802
2002: 9084
2003: 10254

v Sharks
1998: 13667
1999: 13629
2000: 15535
2001: 10284
2003: 10021

v Newcastle

1998: 14214
2000: 13389
2001: 10757
2002: 9524
2003: 9541

v Canberra

1998: 18231
1999: 12511
2000: 14354
2001: 11403
2002: 12044
2003: 10014

v Roosters:

1999: 11871
2000: 14032
2001: 10420
2002: 8131
2003: 10820

v Bulldogs:

1999: 13297
2000: 13120
2001: 15070
2002: 8929
2003: 10782

v Tigers:

2000: 14230
2001: 10683
2002: 7654
2003: 8664


Average:
1998: 14153
1999: 12672
2000: 13688
2001: 11059
2002: 9227
2003: 10006

well done melbourne, you are getting there. the slide it would appear is beginning to stop.

 

[crippler]

They are very good crowds

I think they even have same average as South Sydney which supposedly the most supported team in Sydney.

They are doing well as a completely new side in an AFL dominating state

Compare those crowds to the 1st 6 years of Brisbane (new side )and sydney (relocated side with current fans) who entered a NRL dominated state and whos crowds wouldnt be effected by pay tv.

1987 9,027
1988 12,405
1989 10,944
1990 8,976
1991 8,022
1992 6,587

1980 17,073
1981 14,602
1982 15,993
1983 12,025
1984 12,497
1985 10,137


I consider Storm are doing very well in their first 6 years. Give them time.

the AFL could of easily dumped Brisbane from the competion like the NRL could do with the Storm but they gave them time and merged with another team and gathered heaps of disallusioned Rugby league fans due to Super League and Brisbane Lions are getting bumper crowds.

 

[Richoagain]

Personally, I think the Storm's crowds are pretty ordinary - a professional sporting outfit needs to draw more than that. You can't look at 10k and say 'Yeah, we're happy with that'. A slight upturn is a start, but they need to put in a lot of work drumming up promotion.

Either way - I'm pretty sure Syphon was meaning the compliment to be fairly tongue in cheek....

 

[Ms.Storm]

Crippler

Originally posted by crippler
They are very good crowds

I think they even have same average as South Sydney which supposedly the most supported team in Sydney.

They are doing well as a completely new side in an AFL dominating state

Compare those crowds to the 1st 6 years of Brisbane (new side )and sydney (relocated side with current fans) who entered a NRL dominated state and whos crowds wouldnt be effected by pay tv.

1987 9,027
1988 12,405
1989 10,944
1990 8,976
1991 8,022
1992 6,587

1980 17,073
1981 14,602
1982 15,993
1983 12,025
1984 12,497
1985 10,137


I consider Storm are doing very well in their first 6 years. Give them time.

the AFL could of easily dumped Brisbane from the competion like the NRL could do with the Storm but they gave them time and merged with another team and gathered heaps of disallusioned Rugby league fans due to Super League and Brisbane Lions are getting bumper crowds.

Thanks Crippler...for some support.

There are lost of reasons why the crowds have dropped a little and we have been thru them many times on this board, so I won't repeat myself again....the most important one being pay-tv as you mentioned which didn't happen in the first couple of years. The live triple header on Sat. especially is a huge drawcard for Fox and it is tempting to watch the Storm at home, especially if you are just a newie to league and of course its cheaper.

But I am sure they will get there in the end....some NRL support and the support of more of the Victorian public wouldn't go atray.
League is still very new to this state and I know thru personal experience there is a lot of interest in the Storm in the general public and this won;t transfer to crowds for some time yet. League is like cavier an *acquired* taste IMO.

There's still a lot of work to be done though.

 

[robbieando]

Ms Storm I hate to brake it to you but Foxtel/Optus did show Live RL from the beginning of the NRL in 1998 and its always been shown into Melbourne.

 

[Ms.Storm]

Originally posted by robbieando
Ms Storm I hate to brake it to you but Foxtel/Optus did show Live RL from the beginning of the NRL in 1998 and its always been shown into Melbourne.

Robbie,
But not in the format it is in now....with live triple headers on Sat.

And STorm didn't feature live every week, from what I was told....even though they had some games on Ch.9.

I only connected to Foxtel 1 year ago, even though I had Optus for 2 years before that.

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

Originally posted by crippler
Compare those crowds to the 1st 6 years of Brisbane (new side )and sydney (relocated side with current fans) who entered a NRL dominated state and whos crowds wouldnt be effected by pay tv.

[..]

1980 17,073
1981 14,602
1982 15,993
1983 12,025
1984 12,497
1985 10,137

South didn't move to Sydney until 1982, so the figures are in fact:

1982 15,992
1983 12,015
1984 12,495
1985 10,137
1986 25,846
1987 21,986

 

[Fire Storm]

7 AFL clubs lost a $1 million or more last year with crowds that would triple or quadruple the Storm crowds. So it goes to show that crowds arnt the only thing required.

Its a business that needs to be run properly. The Swans throw monster amounts of money around in Sydney for promotion yet look where it has got them. Massive money problems.

 

[Richoagain]

The Swans cash problems have stuff all to do with promotion (the AFL is in charge of this as much as the Swans are).

Where they went wrong involves payments, in the millions, to persons whose name may rhyme with, shall we say, Terry Wallace and board members. A piece of gross financial mismanagement which a lot of their fans are down on them for - particularly as they'd turned a profit six years running before 2002.

Plus, a bunch of their major sponsors moved money into union for the world cup.

But hey - this is a topic for the Swans board, not the rugby league forum.

 

[Brian]

We're only halfway through the season with a downward trend .
But Storm are doing OK .Compares favourably to Para this year.

 

[dr nick]

Originally posted by Mark Rudd
7 AFL clubs lost a $1 million or more last year with crowds that would triple or quadruple the Storm crowds. So it goes to show that crowds arnt the only thing required.

your argument seems to be based on the implication that the storm are a self sufficient, financially viable club.

 

[Ms.Storm]

Originally posted by Brian
We're only halfway through the season with a downward trend .
But Storm are doing OK .Compares favourably to Para this year.

Thanks Brian..someone who shows a bit of compassion at least.

Storms crowds have been pretty good this year..last Sat. night we played against a bottom club, very cold night in the middle of winter and with the game live on fox with a triple header and we do seem to have quite a few Doggies and Collingwood supporters to would have attended that game at Telstra the same night.

Sounds like excuses, but Storm have done pretty well IMO and compare well with Parra (top Sydney club) Manly and the Tiger and Souths with about the same home crowd averages and yet they have the addition of opposition team supporters who also live in Sydney to help their figures along.....something people forget.....even though we are a one team town.....but afterall, it is an afl town, and league is still in the embryo stage.

 

[dr nick]

Originally posted by Ms.Storm
and we do seem to have quite a few Doggies and Collingwood supporters to would have attended that game at Telstra the same night.

the other week against the bulldogs would have surely voided this excuse by now

 

[Fire Storm]

Richagain? I dont think so.


Nicko? no


Nicko again?

AFL fans would've have planned a weekend off and wouldnt have changed it for a Storm game. Anyway, the media didnt help with the biggest selling newspaper advertising everything under the sun to do in Melbounre with the week off(including the RU game), yet 'forgot' to mention that Storm were playing on the Sunday. Even Ch10 mentioned it on Thursday that they were playing yet the NEXT night mentioned that the RU test was the ONLY football game on the weekend!

Even the next night after Origin 2 on 9, there was no mention of the game even though 9 covered it!


There is a lot of interest in RL here in VIC, but it simply never gets any help from some (thats SOME nicko) sections of the media.

 

[CharlieG]

Originally posted by Richoagain
The Swans cash problems have stuff all to do with promotion (the AFL is in charge of this as much as the Swans are).

Where they went wrong involves payments, in the millions, to persons whose name may rhyme with, shall we say, Terry Wallace and board members. A piece of gross financial mismanagement which a lot of their fans are down on them for - particularly as they'd turned a profit six years running before 2002.

Plus, a bunch of their major sponsors moved money into union for the world cup.

But hey - this is a topic for the Swans board, not the rugby league forum.

There's absolutely no evidence of this occurring, let me remind you.

The Swans' problems are in actual fact due to a combination of overspending on peripheral staff in the football department (which has been cut back), killer overheads at Stadium Australia because of a stuffed up contract that was to have included the Roos until they bailed, forcing the Swans to bear the full cost, as well as revenue from sponsorship and attendances flowing away from the Swans to rugby union, which shares our market.

Don't present rumour and innuendo as fact, thankyou.

 

[dr nick]

you know charlie... why wouldn't wallace flatly deny it? why does he avoid the question every time and get angry every time it is asked of him. i remember sam newman asked him very directly and he could have ended it there and then... but he just evaded the question. i don't know why he would do that.

 

[CharlieG]

Originally posted by nicko18
you know charlie... why wouldn't wallace flatly deny it? why does he avoid the question every time and get angry every time it is asked of him. i remember sam newman asked him very directly and he could have ended it there and then... but he just evaded the question. i don't know why he would do that.

That bugged me. I think it's that stupid attitude that people in that situation take - "I've answered that before, I'm not going to do it again."

Fact is, there's not a skerrick of evidence, which is why the story died. Without evidence, it was nothing more than a beatup.

 

[Joffaboy]

Originally posted by Mark Rudd
AFL fans would've have planned a weekend off and wouldnt have changed it for a Storm game. Anyway, the media didnt help with the biggest selling newspaper advertising everything under the sun to do in Melbounre with the week off(including the RU game), yet 'forgot' to mention that Storm were playing on the Sunday. Even Ch10 mentioned it on Thursday that they were playing yet the NEXT night mentioned that the RU test was the ONLY football game on the weekend!

This is rubbish. Storm take out a back page ad on the Hun at least once a week (it covers the whole of the bottom of the page) and advertises inside the paper with the same ad during the week. So i suppose the AFL supporters cant read the ad and see the time and the opposition in the said ad?????

Even the next night after Origin 2 on 9, there was no mention of the game even though 9 covered it!

It was pushed back an hour because of poor ratings, and it was all over the morning program on Channel 9 the next morning.
Old news by that night.


There is a lot of interest in RL here in VIC, but it simply never gets any help from some (thats SOME nicko) sections of the media.

The hoary old chestnut. It copped heaps of space during the 90's with 85,000 at the MCG SOO. The Melbourne public voted with their feet the next year and the crowd was down to about 50,000.
When the Storm started in 1998 they got 22,000 to the first match, and have gone downhill ever since. It is called novelty value and that novelty has worn out.

There is little interest in RL in Victoria, no matter what anecdotal evidence you and Ms Storm come up with.
The facts state otherwise.

 

[Fire Storm]

Its funny how EVERY fact about the AFL is 'correct', yet ANYTHING about the NRL is 'wrong'.


Yes Joffa. Whatever you say Joffa.



Typical paraniod AFL fans. From the CEO down to the smallest fan, they are so worried about their code.


Why?


As a high ranking official in the NRL said after another pathetic AFL bagging attempt, "We must be doing something right if their so concerned with us".



Last years NRL GF was the highest rating GF in Australia and it was only live in 3 states.

Great TV ratings in NSW and QLD.

State of Origin series watched by close to 10 million fans.


Yep. Their doing something righ alright.

 

[Richoagain]

Are you going to offer anything to rebuke Joff's comments? Or are you just going to put up some irrelevant remarks, bagging the guy out personally?

I thought so.

Oh, and by the way - last year's AFL grand final beat the NRL grand final by about 500,000 viewers.

The NRL grand final was only the highest rater in Australia if you count NSW and Qld as Australia - the AFL granny won overall.

But as I've heard about 6 people drag this one out in the last couple of weeks I doubt the figures mean anything.

 

[Crooked Rain]

He might be adding the regional figures into his claim, but I'm not sure. I have read where the league one was the most watched with the regional figures taken into account, but who knows???

crooked

 

[Richoagain]

I'm wondering if the original claim was using ratings as a percentage of viewers as opposed to estimated total viewer numbers.

In which case adding in a relatively small number of regional viewers could make a bigger difference to the percentage than it would to the total nationwide viewer tally.

Lies, damned lies and statistics...

As Crooked says - who knows?

 

[Crooked Rain]

I'd reckon those Hunter, Gold Coast and Illawarra figures would be handy though...


crooked

 

[Richoagain]

True - not much going for the AFL in either the Hunter Valley or Illawarra.

Gold Coast gets a bit of AFL support, between the Lions doing well and the big Vic expat population. Some very strong Aussie Rules clubs up there (think Southport, richest Aussie Rules club outside the AFL). But still plenty of numbers for the NRL in the ratings game...

The other places that would make the NRL granny's figures look very nice are Toowoomba, Rocky, Townsville etc - a lot of people in regional Queensland and not much bar rugby league (except Cairns I suppose, good AFL support up there, lots of southern states expats and a financially very strong AFL competition)).

 

[robbieando]

Originally posted by Crooked Rain
I'd reckon those Hunter, Gold Coast and Illawarra figures would be handy though...

That might be so, but when you add in Country Victoria, Country South Australia, Country Western Australia, NT and Tasmania which aren't included as well, the AFL will still come out on top and thats without the Riverina and Southern NSW which have a very healthy AFL following so I very much doubt the NRL Grand Final outrated the AFL Grand Final Australia wide.