Hot Topic Michael Voss - Coaching in 2026. Should he remain beyond that?

[windows1]

You don’t think panic is causing that? For example guv is/was one of our most reliable marks.

I think he has dedicated his year to self preservation. Doesn’t sprint. Desperate to avoid contact to avoid injury. He knows his afl career is totally over if he gets injured. So he’s focused on that. He will get a contract if he avoids injury. I think that’s where his mind is most of the time.

 

[Accidental genius]

I think he has dedicated his year to self preservation. Doesn’t sprint. Desperate to avoid contact to avoid injury. He knows his afl career is totally over if he gets injured. So he’s focused on that. He will get a contract if he avoids injury. I think that’s where his mind is most of the time.

Yeah that too. He’s been dropping sitters a bit too and without risk of injury.

Overall we were never really good with basic skills but this year we seem to have gone back a notch. Maybe not enough done in this area during training.

 

[Blue1980]

I think he has dedicated his year to self preservation. Doesn’t sprint. Desperate to avoid contact to avoid injury. He knows his afl career is totally over if he gets injured. So he’s focused on that. He will get a contract if he avoids injury. I think that’s where his mind is most of the time.

His career is done anyway the way he is playing

 

[Beyond Blue]

Getting sick of people saying 'the list isn't that good'.

The talent is there. When I am at the ground, I am seeing effort.

It's the gameplan. It is not working and it is sapping our players of confidence. They are constantly outnumbered, under pressure and confused. It makes them look slow. They make mistakes. They can't execute.

But Voss aint going nowhere. We've been down that road before. Just need to hope there is enough intellect at the club to figure it out and enough humility to make the necessary changes.

More of list management post but this list has a lot of holes in it everywhere, here’s a summary IMO:
- We have no small or medium forwards that are afl standard. That’s four spots out of 22 that we are immediately short.
- We are short a second key defender. Young is not afl standard.
- we don’t have a goalkicking midfielder
on the list at all.
- we don’t have anyone of afl standard capable of playing high half forward.
- I’m not sure we have an afl standard third defender. Gov has been awful although I have hopes for Kemp.
- we are short at least one afl standard wingman (2 if you don’t rate Acres).
- if we lose TDk then we will be short a ruck/forward.
- we have 4 blokes on the list who are never available due to injury (Cunners, Philp, Marchy, Martin).
- we have 2 players on the list who are unplayable this season at league level (Akeui, Mirkov).
- the majority of the players on our list lack pace, kicking skills, goal sense, basic football IQ and running capacity.

What we do have is a logjam of slow, one paced inside midfielders who don’t like running defensively.

Everyone keeps pointing to the 8-2 start last season that this list is good but the reality is we won 5 of those games by 16 points or less invariably relying on 1 really good quarter to get us over the line.

SOS and Austen have completely butchered the list build.

A new coach with a new game plan every couple years probably hasn’t helped either.

 

[BluStreak]

Lets get Pyke. next minute the team gets split into groups and marched of to some secret camp. Yeah thats a great idea.
Openning game of the season against Richmond and the boys form up into 'the stance'

 

[Ash24]

I've read this alot of times since the coaching debate heated up.

Cant sack another coach because we've been through too many. It will look bad etc.


If you don't think he will take us very far why persevere?

Like staying in an unhappy relationship because you think it would look bad if you go through another break up.

Read points 2 and 3 again.

Which coach available right now do people see as an upgrade on Voss? And even if they were interested in a return to coaching, why would they ever want to come to Carlton just to be sacked 2 years later?

 

[Dramoth]

List management wise, the game changed half way through. The 666, kick in and stand rule have made the game more outside and greatly emphasised leg speed and agility.

Game has gone from you apply pressure and defend by keeping the opposition ball movement close to the boundary, getting numbers around the contest, getting numbers to the next contest. Can't do that anymore. You apply pressure now by winning the ball and going forward quickly but also by your ability to close down on your opponent with leg speed and effort.

It was evident by our teams defence structure that the changes in the game caught us off guard and by our recruiting and list structure.

We already had Cripps but brought in Kennedy, Setterfield, Hewett. Slow slow slow. Really tone deaf to where the game is or was heading.

I think some teams saw the changes coming and correctly identified how that would change the game.

I think Collingwood are where they are because they saw it coming and guess right how the game was going to change and have invested heavily in players with leg speed, are very competitive and have not restricted themselves to straight and narrow personalities as we have.

Our core group of players are still really good but we don't have leg speed, hard competitive types and highly skilled players who are willing over confident and rebellious enough to break the team rules for the benefit of the team.

Our list needs leg speed, needs small forwards, needs personalities who are going to go our and compete a little harder and ride on emotion a little more and lift those straight and narrow head droppers around them.

We also brought Dow for his leg speed and quick thinking. And after a good first 2 years under Bolton, he went backwards when Barker was the stoppages coach. He has been doing really well in the VFL and while he didn't see much of it last night when he was subbed in, he showed that he would add that inside/outside run we desparately need.

 

[gbatman]

We also brought Dow for his leg speed and quick thinking. And after a good first 2 years under Bolton, he went backwards when Barker was the stoppages coach. He has been doing really well in the VFL and while he didn't see much of it last night when he was subbed in, he showed that he would add that inside/outside run we desparately need.

That could be a step forward, he's an improving player.

 

[The Toad]

You give time when you have a young rebuilding list, or a young inexperienced rookie coach.

We have an experienced list and Voss is an experienced coach.

So why does he need more time?

The fact that we are going backwards with this list is alarming.

Well, IMO with every new coach starts a new re-build. they take time. That's what I mean.

 

[Sedated]

I want to make my stance on Voss clear.

My preference is to keep Voss provided we can get some quality assistant coaches to support him. If we were to get rid of him then I don't know who we should go for to be honest, it would be a huge kick in the guts as we've been down this road before and frankly I'm sick of the club constantly turning over coaches. The one thing the successful clubs have over us is coaching stability (Hawks, Swans, Pies, Cats even Port).

For the remainder of the season I’d like to see us do away with the current game plan and instead just go all out playing hard, fast, attacking footy. We seem to play like that for 1 quarter in most games to then revert to our chip, chip style.

 

[What else we can do]

Clarkson took over at the start of a rebuild, our rebuild started 8 years ago.

Hawthorn made a prelim 4 years prior to Clarkson's appointment a year after our last Prelim which is now 23 years ago.

 

[Crippa#9]

I've read this alot of times since the coaching debate heated up.

Cant sack another coach because we've been through too many. It will look bad etc.


If you don't think he will take us very far why persevere?

Like staying in an unhappy relationship because you think it would look bad if you go through another break up.

its a strange mentality some supporters have.

“we can’t sack another coach as that will make us look bad!”

it’s as is if some supporters would prefer to not be ‘embarrassed’ about a coach being removed than they are content with how mediocre the team is regularly playing.

weird.

professional sport is a brutal game. Players are sacked every year. EPL club sack their coaches if they have a losing streak of just five matches. Who cares if Jon Ralph & co bang on about it for a few days.

The most important thing here is getting this club back winning finals and being respected. right now, we’re back being the butt of jokes again. I for one have had enough.

 

[Revenant1995]

I really don't know how to feel as I am conflicted at a number of levels. But right now it feels there is a lot of emotion attached to this (including apathy and indifference). The reality at the moment is that on current form we won't make finals (I'm not giving up hope, but form indicates that is most likely outcome). Also, more than one poster who have closer associations to ITK have suggested lines of communication between Assistant Coaches and Voss may not be 100%. But what good does changing a coach, or Assistant coaches, or footy department really make now?

My view is that everyone (coaches, Assistant coaches, players, footy department, board members, etc) just need to tough it out and be the best versions of themselves until season's end, and not throw in the towel for the season or towards one another. And who's to say this is not happening now? But it's about character. Right now in these darker times there is a test of character. Let's see who will rise positively in a way that seeks to build others up and make for a better CFC and ultimately bring us closer to 17... Just the way I see it, and I know others will have different opinions...

 

[jpfalvo]

My biggest issue is that Voss had a year to evaluate our list and we collectively decided that we should throw money at our guns to stay and tweak the list adding only Acres.

He knew we lacked foot speed and opted for a quick length of the field ball movement game plan that would expose us badly if it broke down.

Not one thing was done to address the glaringly obvious one paced on ball brigade. I was concerned at the time but hoped that the talent off our top liners would overcome this one nagging issue. Instead, our top liners have fallen apart with the rest of the team.

Remember that Voss declared we are a contested clearance team last year, over and over and that is what we want to be known as.

Now it seems we are supposed to be a quick ball movement team, like you can just add that layer in an on off-season without changing the personnel.

Now we are neither. We lose the contested footy stats because only a portion of our list are built for it, and we turnover the ball because only a portion of our list have the skills to move it.

We have some players who are neither strong enough or fast enough to play either facet unless under so much pressure their skills fail.

Too many times we have coaches coming in to add finals to a team that are close to winning, then discovering that group aren't suited to the plan they want to use so we have to strip it back to make them fit the current trends.

Malthouse tried this. All that happened is the value of our players went down and we started to break the list apart. Here we are again. Voss is trying to get our group to play a style that other teams have a head start on us with, and do it with a team that isn't particularly well suited to that style. He has sucked all of the enjoyment out of the game for them.

That's my huge concern. We have to strip it back to change the personnel, in order to play a style that other teams are far better at.

When does somebody come in, look at our talent and innovate to get the best out of them?

Exactly right.

So shouldnt this be where those talking to prospective coaches be asking about their coaching philosophy, assessment of the list and the gameplan they will employ.

How they will handle pressure when it comes.

Its also where the interviewing and selection process ideally should be happening in 2nd half of a season, not at the end of season

The Teague debacle led us here in my opinion. And I agree, it appears that we rested on our laurels across post season r22

Acres was never that 1 missing piece. Neither was pushing out setterfield and stocker the big moves that would shake up the culture.

Club's approach whether its because of salary cap issues and footy cap issues post r22 wasnt good enough.

Voss will be sacked due to his coaching failures, but also due to the clubs failures off field



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[DangerousD]

Hawthorn made a prelim 4 years prior to Clarkson's appointment a year after our last Prelim which is now 23 years ago.

We made the semi finals in 2013. The point that may have been lost is, Voss is not in the same spot as Clarkson as the other poster alluded to.

Voss took charge of a senior team of seasoned players, we had 6 All Australian players on the field Friday night, two of which are Coleman medalists and one is a Brownlow medalist and we haven’t kicked more than 60 points in weeks.

 

[jpfalvo]

When we get big names, we do it at a cost, we have to buy them.

Judd came to us for money. There were clubs he wanted but we forked out a fortune to satisfy West Coast and we paid him a huge salary which would go on to hamstring us.

Pagan was on the outer at North, god knows we probably paid him to get him, having a Carlton connection helped no doubt but the reputation wasn't there then and didn't bare so much weight as it does now.

Malthouse came on big money and again, we surrounded him with nobodies, the football department we put around him was dwarfed by what Collingwood supplied him with. He brought two blokes with him but we could not do anymore. We cleaned out a bit when he left but never improved a great deal. Malthouse probably had a quarter of what he had at Collingwood in terms of quality resources.

The only way we get someone with a reputation is with money. Good young people won't want to come here because we ruin reputations and we sack. High profile people come here only if we pay up. We are not a place where people who are good at what the do want to end up at. Going to Carlton is a risky career move and everyone knows it.

The fact we are not a destination club for off field people is the source of all our problems.

If Voss was at Collingwood he would have a top line senior assistant and some really good assistants and tactical people around him as well as years of better recruiting better in touch with the game and where it was heading and recruiting with direction which he hasn't got at Carlton.

The closes thing we have ever done in 23 years to support a coach was get Alan Richardson in to help Ratten and that still didn't make up for the years and years of carrying an atrocious recruiting team and the rest of the coaching and development staff being second rate as well as not having a list manager at all.

As we have done with All coaches who have walked through the door the last 23 years, we are doing our best to see that they fail.

Point here is valid

Comment on Voss as a hypothetical is valid. However in reality Voss didnt even make it past the 2nd round in the the collingwood coaching process. So they saw something in him that said not right for a senior gig

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[jpfalvo]

Would Leppitsch and McCrae be on massive money at Collingwood. Both have huge reps. Bet you they are on good money but not the money it would cost us to get them.

Voss needs a senior assistant and what you mentioned there, he needs to be fully equipped. Not half arsed which is the Carlton way. If you want to work on analysis then you do it on our assistant coaches, their records and backgrounds. There's not much going for them to suggest they might be high level.

Think we have our head in the sand, or somewhere worse on this.

How did we hire assistants with no input from an incoming senior coach.

Look at Ross Lyon. He brought a team he could trust to excute his plan

Same with Clarkson...


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[The Great Ian]

Extend Voss until 2026 and focus on improving the list with players who can handle pressure.

On CPH2065 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[RattAttack]

Whilst it may not look it, the effort is still there. This suggests the players are still ‘playing’ for Voss.

If we start losing games by 10 goals +, you know he’s lost them. Then he goes…

 

[Dramoth]

That could be a step forward, he's an improving player.

That kick to Harry in the last was sublime. Kicked into the space for Harry to lead into. Right where Harry could take an easy mark.

 

[Revenant1995]

I just want to add one more thing in relation to my previous post... Someone posted on this forum somewhere about a concerned look between Sayers and Cook after the game. Others may verify, but taking that as given, I am also expecting some changes at end of year...

 

[Accidental genius]

Lets get Pyke. next minute the team gets split into groups and marched of to some secret camp. Yeah thats a great idea.
Openning game of the season against Richmond and the boys form up into 'the stance'

Yeah those camps and stances were shjit but can we confidently say those were Pykes ideas? To me it sounds more like something a club phycologist might initiate.

Either way I reckon Pyke wouldnt go in that direction next opportunity he gets. Lots of backlash on it.

 

[Carl]

Voss is not the man for the job. His game plan doesn't install confidence in the players and it shows. How some players make the same mistakes over and over is unbelievable. I'd love to know what he says to the players when they review the game. Especially the soft players who don't want any contact. But we will still give them a game next week.

We can't even get the kick ins right. The amount of times we kick long to where we are out numbered is a joke. If you have no bloody idea, flood one side and kick it that way. Just get numbers to the ball and move it quick. Get the forwards to lead and move around. Easier to mark the ball on the lead than a pack mark. I could go on and on but no bloody point.

At the moment there is only 2 solutions. Untried coach or Hardwick if he's stupid and 100% committed to the job.

Or we ask the AFL to play all our games in the Sunday twilight time slot, so we don't ruin are whole weekend.

 

[gbatman]

You have a look at Port Adelaide at the moment, they all wanted Ken gone last season, were desperate to get rid of him. Not so much now. They managed to fix things so surely we can as well.

 

[jpfalvo]

Austin can't fall back on past selections by Silvagni to exonerate himself. He's been there long enough to start seeing the shape of things.

He opted to avoid the draft to get Saad and Cerra. He opted to spend on Williams and Hewett. He has tightened our cap by doing this and had a better each way on what we need to going forward. 2 slowish inside mids and 2 quick half backs, however one had a history of injury and he wanted to turn him into a midfielder based on one game.

We haven't tried to improve our ruck stocks in any meaningful way. We tried to get Weitering key defensive help with a late pick trade.

Before we sucked but with room in the cap. Now we suck with no room to move.

Yeah nah, Austin doesn't escape for his part.

They've all been exposed very quickly and shockingly.

Agreed [emoji106]

In addition to draft capital usage, we have a number of players extended and with very long term deals. For example Harry is out to 2030.

The 4 yrs to Pittonet, whilst a capable ruck, not going to be the panacea. Was he really in such demand.

Extending both Hollands and Cowan before the season even started, what was the rush?

Surely they retire off ed curnow.
Surely its time to cut losses with injury prone underperformers...

Austin and the club needs to get to work on making tough decisions on the list.

With any meaningful impact on the season over now, surely the club tells Voss that we need to start planning for 2024. Whether he is coach or not.

Lets have a look at different roles for different players. Give some senior players time in the 2s or a rest if they are either carrying injury, lacking confidence or not performing.

Why not give Binns ago.
Why not give Cripps a rest and play Dow in his role.

Why not leave Cincotta at half back.

Why not find Kemps best spot.

Why not give Lemmey a run. Van Rooyen is a first year and playing well.

Why not see if Harry can ruck fwd like Daniher?

To make valid list decisions, now, we need a good look over a stretch of games.

If Voss wants to save his job now, it will be flexibility and adaptability that will do it


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