Toast Mick Malthouse

[Pie eyed]

I wouldn't want either of thos etwo because they would both coach too much like Mick.

Nathan is far more independent, and a smarter footballer.

He's already publicly shown he's not a fan of Mick's gameday coaching style.

The only thing I want Nathan to glean off Mick, is his ability to relate to his players.

Outside of that, I want Bucks to be his own man. Not an MM clone.

Agreed. Hence why I would have kept Mick 3 years ago and agree that we did.


Agreed hence we have Bucks contracted as Assistant for 2 then Senior Coach for 3.

No matter how you see Ed's reasoning for the deal, we the club, the fans ended up with a win/win.

To eat our cake so to speak.

The worst outcome would have been to gain an inexperienced coach who did not work out and then be in the Market, sans, Buckley in 2-3 years.
I'm not knocking Hardwick or any of the first year coaches, but I see nothing to indicate that Hardwick will be anything but an average if best coach...yet.... I'll add and I realise he has little to work with.

Malthouse was the best option in the absence of a better available coach and Buckley was the best option, albeit untried, if Mick was to go.

Really it is all moot because we have what have.

8-3 tends to suggest that even if there is some friction then it is not having any catastrophic effect.

Shep you and I disagree on many things but you claerly address your concerns in a manner relevant to the actual realities and on a game by game basis, for the most part.

Other do not and simply repost the same rote disdain at every opportunity.

Eddie has nothing to do with week to week form fluctuations, team selections or recruiting of players.

It is perfectly valid to question the coaches decisions in this regard.

Grumpy is only seen after a loss or when anyone ever says a good word about Malthouse and then simply regurgitates that which he has posted 100's of times is if by doing so time will reverse and decisions will be changed.

 

[Grumpy Bum]

Agreed. Hence why I would have kept Mick 3 years ago and agree that we did.


Agreed hence we have Bucks contracted as Assistant for 2 then Senior Coach for 3.

No matter how you see Ed's reasoning for the deal, we the club, the fans ended up with a win/win.

To eat our cake so to speak.

The worst outcome would have been to gain an inexperienced coach who did not work out and then be in the Market, sans, Buckley in 2-3 years.
I'm not knocking Hardwick or any of the first year coaches, but I see nothing to indicate that Hardwick will be anything but an average if best coach...yet.... I'll add and I realise he has little to work with.

Malthouse was the best option in the absence of a better available coach and Buckley was the best option, albeit untried, if Mick was to go.

Really it is all moot because we have what have.

8-3 tends to suggest that even if there is some friction then it is not having any catastrophic effect.

Shep you and I disagree on many things but you claerly address your concerns in a manner relevant to the actual realities and on a game by game basis, for the most part.

Other do not and simply repost the same rote disdain at every opportunity.

Eddie has nothing to do with week to week form fluctuations, team selections or recruiting of players.

It is perfectly valid to question the coaches decisions in this regard.

Grumpy is only seen after a loss and then simply regurgitates that which he has posted 100's of times is if by doing so time will reverse and decisions will be changed.

I am pretty sure we won this last weekend. Did you put on the wrong pair of glasses this morn?

How is it a win win for the fans, the club?

There is only one win win for anyone who supports Collingwood and it doesnt matter who coaches that win win, and that is a flag. Unfortunately the weight of evidence is against MM that he can achieve that ( 10 years is more than just a trend, its set in concrete). But I stand to be corrected if he can coach us to a flag. Do you think he will coach us to a flag in the next 2 seasons?

 

[Pie eyed]

I am pretty sure we won this last weekend. Did you put on the wrong pair of glasses this morn?

How is it a win win for the fans, the club?

There is only one win win for anyone who supports Collingwood and it doesnt matter who coaches that win win, and that is a flag. Unfortunately the weight of evidence is against MM that he can achieve that ( 10 years is more than just a trend, its set in concrete). But I stand to be corrected if he can coach us to a flag. Do you think he will coach us to a flag in the next 2 seasons?

Sorry I edited my post, I forgot to add or when ever anyone says a good word about Malthouse.

 

[Pie eyed]

I am pretty sure we won this last weekend. Did you put on the wrong pair of glasses this morn?

How is it a win win for the fans, the club?

There is only one win win for anyone who supports Collingwood and it doesnt matter who coaches that win win, and that is a flag. Unfortunately the weight of evidence is against MM that he can achieve that ( 10 years is more than just a trend, its set in concrete). But I stand to be corrected if he can coach us to a flag. Do you think he will coach us to a flag in the next 2 seasons?

He is certainly the coach available when re-appointed with the best chance to.

 

[daics_35]

I love Mick and i would really like him to honor his contract and become cheif of coaching, whatever its called but i dont think we can win the flag with him as coach becuase he just changes the game plan when we play the benchmark sides and he has done this for a decade. After reading Buckleys biography i just rekon he will make a great coach, we have a great list and Buckley just needs to change a bit like guard the corridor when the other teams are coming out of deffence and when we are going forward make sure we make go through the corridor when ever we can. IMO thats all that needs to be fixed with our gameplan and i think we could beat the Cats. Its really disapointing Mick refuses to improve his gameplan.

 

[Grumpy Bum]

He is certainly the coach available when re-appointed with the best chance to.

But he will also be the best coach available in 2012, moreso than Buckley will be in 2012.

But that isn't really what AFL football is about long term. Matthews was better equipped than Voss at the start of 2009, even tho Matthews stood down ( read gently pushed). But Brisbane took a gamble and Voss acquited himself quite well in that first year. Why does Buckley need to be babysat where Voss didnt?

Collingwood should have realised that at the end of 2008 that MM probably had coached this list to its limit with that game plan. Its a good game plan if you want to beat 60% of clubs. But its not a flag winning game plan.

Much like Hawthorn proved, sometimes you got to go backwards so you can advance further than before. MM has coached for contract extensions, he keeps racking up finals, why would you get rid of him? The fans lap it up, EM can bask in the glory of taking the club from the depths and closer to the top. But in the final analysis many got seduced by finals finishes and forgot that its meant to be a constant move up the ladder, not stuck in a holding pattern just short of the mark.

But much like Richmond's 9th syndrome, we are stuck in that circling pattern but with much worse longer term consequences. Coming 4th means worse drafting or trading opportunities, which means less chance of making that full on tilt for the flag. You cant bridge the gap and it is substantial as we keep finding out. At some stage you have to bite the bullet, accept the pain and take a dive so you can rise again. We have prolonged our stay in the 8 longer than most would, all because MM coached to get juicy contract extensions. His game plan was never ever going to win a flag except for that one year in 2007 (forget 2002/3 that was a generation ago now, this is MM pt 2) when he may have fluked it. But he didn't.

The end of 2008 was the time to assess where he had taken us, saw that we had again fallen somewhat due to retirements, it was the time to start afresh. The list had serious deficiencies all because we had poor drafting opportunities or just plain poor recruiting, a game plan that has limitations and not one superstar that is needed to win a flag. All because of MM's philosophies on the game. He has coached for his own interests. Even he would concede that game plan, this list, will not beat a Geelong in full flight. So unless your happy to be second best for prolonged periods, you have to keep searching for that elusive ingredient. MM is not that elusive ingredient. He was closer to a flag in 2002/3 than he has been for the last 5 years.

Buckley comes in and hopefully he is not a conservative like MM. And if he isnt, the list will need serious modification. it will need a superstar, it will need to be more focused on quick attack, it will need to be like Buckley, an effective user of the corridor. Because that is how the last 3 flags have been won, and most likely again this year by Geelong. So he either has to work miracles with a list that does not have one superstar, is brainwashed into avoiding contests, has a decade of boundary line crap, or he has to clean sweep, hit the bottom to go find the talent that he needs. I dont think its going to be a picnic for Buckley in the least.

We could be 2 years into his new game plan by now, or at the very least year one, in a year where we probably weren't going to be a chance anyway. We have delayed this way too long.

 

[Pie eyed]

But he will also be the best coach available in 2012, moreso than Buckley will be in 2012.

But that isn't really what AFL football is about long term. Matthews was better equipped than Voss at the start of 2009, even tho Matthews stood down ( read gently pushed). But Brisbane took a gamble and Voss acquited himself quite well in that first year. Why does Buckley need to be babysat where Voss didnt?

Collingwood should have realised that at the end of 2008 that MM probably had coached this list to its limit with that game plan. Its a good game plan if you want to beat 60% of clubs. But its not a flag winning game plan.

Much like Hawthorn proved, sometimes you got to go backwards so you can advance further than before. MM has coached for contract extensions, he keeps racking up finals, why would you get rid of him? The fans lap it up, EM can bask in the glory of taking the club from the depths and closer to the top. But in the final analysis many got seduced by finals finishes and forgot that its meant to be a constant move up the ladder, not stuck in a holding pattern just short of the mark.

But much like Richmond's 9th syndrome, we are stuck in that circling pattern but with much worse longer term consequences. Coming 4th means worse drafting or trading opportunities, which means less chance of making that full on tilt for the flag. You cant bridge the gap and it is substantial as we keep finding out. At some stage you have to bite the bullet, accept the pain and take a dive so you can rise again. We have prolonged our stay in the 8 longer than most would, all because MM coached to get juicy contract extensions. His game plan was never ever going to win a flag except for that one year in 2007 (forget 2002/3 that was a generation ago now, this is MM pt 2) when he may have fluked it. But he didn't.

The end of 2008 was the time to assess where he had taken us, saw that we had again fallen somewhat due to retirements, it was the time to start afresh. The list had serious deficiencies all because we had poor drafting opportunities or just plain poor recruiting, a game plan that has limitations and not one superstar that is needed to win a flag. All because of MM's philosophies on the game. He has coached for his own interests. Even he would concede that game plan, this list, will not beat a Geelong in full flight. So unless your happy to be second best for prolonged periods, you have to keep searching for that elusive ingredient. MM is not that elusive ingredient. He was closer to a flag in 2002/3 than he has been for the last 5 years.

Buckley comes in and hopefully he is not a conservative like MM. And if he isnt, the list will need serious modification. it will need a superstar, it will need to be more focused on quick attack, it will need to be like Buckley, an effective user of the corridor. Because that is how the last 3 flags have been won, and most likely again this year by Geelong. So he either has to work miracles with a list that does not have one superstar, is brainwashed into avoiding contests, has a decade of boundary line crap, or he has to clean sweep, hit the bottom to go find the talent that he needs. I dont think its going to be a picnic for Buckley in the least.

We could be 2 years into his new game plan by now, or at the very least year one, in a year where we probably weren't going to be a chance anyway. We have delayed this way too long.

Key words...
Was.
If.
When.


2010 = Now.

8-3.

You'll get every chance to assess Malthouse in the future.

 

[Grumpy Bum]

Key words...
Was.
If.
When.


2010 = Now.

8-3.

You'll get every chance to assess Malthouse in the future.

I have assessed him already.

Key words:

16 years

11 years

4th, 4th, 2nd, 2nd, 6th, 8th, 73 points, Rintoul, Morrison, King, fat arsed players, blame, 800K+.......................

and how could I forget? HIT THE BOUNDARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Pie eyed]

A due.

 

[Grumpy Bum]

A due.

Is that our recent finals record?

 

[Kirby]

I hope MM wins a flag in these next 2 years. I don't know which I'd relish more, the glory of the win or watching the backpeddling from the master of avoidance.

Wow, that says a lot about you as a supporter.

Your hate for Eddie is at least equal to your love of the Pies?

Unbelievable really.

 

[Thommo 42]

But he will also be the best coach available in 2012, moreso than Buckley will be in 2012.

But that isn't really what AFL football is about long term. Matthews was better equipped than Voss at the start of 2009, even tho Matthews stood down ( read gently pushed).

you are just making up rubbish now, nothing could be further from the truth

But Brisbane took a gamble and Voss acquited himself quite well in that first year. Why does Buckley need to be babysat where Voss didnt?

He was babysat, they recruited assistant coaches like Wayne and Crag Brittain for that exact reason.

 

[No SPIN]

You can disagree all you want. The reality of the situation is that no-one in their right mind would sack a recent flag winning coach short of a Jesalenko type situation.

EM wouldn't put in place a plan to move aside MM if he felt that MM hadn't gone as far as he could with this list. He certainly wouldn't put in place a plan to get rid of someone who by the end of his 12 years will most probably have been in the finals 6 years running unless he felt certain MM wasn't going to get a flag.

EM plays his politics hard and will not be made a fool of by any means if he can avoid it. He has rolled the dice here, knowing that if MM wins a flag in the next 2 seasons, he will have to make a harder decision than the contrived piece of crap he put in place last year. He must be pretty certain that MM wont win that flag, he is pretty certain he wont have to make a hard decision thats for sure, something he has not been able to to do internally since he took the presidency. EM loves taking on the world, but heaven forbid he make a decision to upset his constituency like sacking MM.

I hope MM wins a flag in these next 2 years. I don't know which I'd relish more, the glory of the win or watching the backpeddling from the master of avoidance. But I suspect EM has done his sums, he knows this will go off pretty much as planned. MM is moved aside hopefully with the veneer of civility, EM is made to look a hero by bringing home the prodigal son and finally Collingwood move on and try something different. Something they should have done at the end of 2004 or at the very least, at the end of 2008.

All EM is hoping is that doesn't blow his load publicly and rip into Buckley. Even the little displays of petulance towards Buckley, the snide comments so far would sit uneasy with EM. MM''s posturing that he wants to go on coaching and EM's blustering about lawsuits does not bode well for what is really happening behind the scenes where the real angst would be played out.

Buckley stands to be the big winner. if he holds his temper in the face of MM's petulance, then he will have done a good job. But I bet that he doesn't want MM in that bullshit job of overseeing coaching, I bet he wants rid of him as soon as that final siren sounds in 2011. And EM would do well to be rid of MM as soon as possible too. Whether it be media speculation or real angst behind the scenes, the club needs to have one on field general, not some fractured mechanism all set up because EM was to scared to do what every other club has done with coaches that don't win flags and that is cut the relationship outright.

You might not like this, it really doesn't matter, but I bet deep down, you know this EM, MM and Buckley thing is not as EM would have you think it is.

Your crap is breath taking,
Players can retire when they're on TOP but coaches can't - Are you serious.
Crawford retired after the 2008 GF, as have so many other premership players but a Coach can't?

Like I said - just like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[Snag Breac]

No point arguing lads; Grumpy Bum is actually Terry Wallace.

 

[Forgotten Legend]

No point arguing lads; Grumpy Bum is actually Terry Wallace.

Lol.

You can't reason with him Pie Eyed. Save your breath.

 

[Grumpy Bum]

Your crap is breath taking,
Players can retire when they're on TOP but coaches can't - Are you serious.
Crawford retired after the 2008 GF, as have so many other premership players but a Coach can't?

Like I said - just like shooting fish in a barrel.

If MM is retiring, why is he making noises about coaching elsewhere? Why is EM making noises about suing him if he goes elsewhere. Surely you dont sue someone if he retires do you?

Is being director of coaching actually retiring?

I thought retiring was actually not working.

Do you understand what retiring means?

Is the name No Spin actually a cry out for the world to stop spinning? .

Retiring .............. mmmmmm, I am sure that means not working

 

[Grumpy Bum]

Wow, that says a lot about you as a supporter.

Your hate for Eddie is at least equal to your love of the Pies?

Unbelievable really.

My dislike of letting him allowing MM to keep us in a rut is intense. You might relish coming 4th all the time. I think its as bad as coming last all the time, with less benefits.

It is unbelievable that EM has presided over a coaching regime that has gone the longest consecutive run of years with one coach and no flags. The fact that MM would have to be the longest time in the game without a flag is also amazing.

Now that is unbelievable.

Why does this happen to Collingwood? We laugh at Melbourne and Daniher, now we have even overtaken that!!

 

[Grumpy Bum]

[/B]

you are just making up rubbish now, nothing could be further from the truth



He was babysat, they recruited assistant coaches like Wayne and Crag Brittain for that exact reason.

ask Gubby

And we could similarly put in same structures for Buckley. All EM has done is delay Collingwood moving on to the next phase when we should have taken advantage of the fact that Geelong are top dog for another year or two, probably no-one will get past them. We could have hit 2012 with a coach 2 years under his belt

 

[No SPIN]

If MM is retiring, why is he making noises about coaching elsewhere? Why is EM making noises about suing him if he goes elsewhere. Surely you dont sue someone if he retires do you?

Is being director of coaching actually retiring?

I thought retiring was actually not working.

Do you understand what retiring means?

Is the name No Spin actually a cry out for the world to stop spinning? .

Retiring .............. mmmmmm, I am sure that means not working

Nice try sport:
FACT: your contention is that EM appointed MM for 2 yrs, knowing that MM could not win a flag, because if MM won a Flag EM couldn't retire a Premiership coach.
So as I said above why can't MM retire on TOP as so many other players have????

You can actually RETIRE from one career and begin another - as he will when he starts as a Director of Coaching.
So your conspiracy theory is again blown out of the water again - Shooting fish in a barrel

 

[Grumpy Bum]

Nice try sport:
FACT: your contention is that EM appointed MM for 2 yrs, knowing that MM could not win a flag, because if MM won a Flag EM couldn't retire a Premiership coach.
So as I said above why can't MM retire on TOP as so many other players have????

You can actually RETIRE from one career and begin another - as he will when he starts as a Director of Coaching.
So your conspiracy theory is again blown out of the water again - Shooting fish in a barrel

So, MM is going to win a flag in the next 2 years?

Is this what you are saying?

And that wasn't MM on the footy show at the start of the year saying he hadn't ruled out coaching elsewhere after 2011??? That's funny, doesnt sound like a bloke looking to retire if you ask me or anyone with an ounce of sanity.

When you are shooting these fish, you don't have your foot under them do you?

 

[No SPIN]

So, MM is going to win a flag in the next 2 years?

Is this what you are saying?

And that wasn't MM on the footy show at the start of the year saying he hadn't ruled out coaching elsewhere after 2011??? That's funny, doesnt sound like a bloke looking to retire if you ask me or anyone with an ounce of sanity.

When you are shooting these fish, you don't have your foot under them do you?

Ok - so you agree there is no conspiracy, and that you have been offering fairy tales, and baseless rhetoric in respect of EM's appoint of MM.

I've made my point - and will not be diverted into another mindless debate other than to say ,MM the grandad, and family man could well retire from coaching after winning a flag - and enjoy a quieter life as a Director of Coaching. All this is entirely plausible and possible.

But here's a surprise that you haven't thought of Grumpy. He may choose to continue coaching after 2011,if he doesn't win a flag, IF he, EM and CFC agree to release him from his contract (talk of suits is just crap) - but I doubt whether he will have the desire. So his comments on the Footy Show are plausible.

But so what -by then we will all be happy to see BUCKS take the reins after having served his 2 yr apprenticeship, and will thank MM for his contribution.

There you go - a perfectly plausible fit to all the elements of your story - and not a single conspiracy to be found.

 

[Grumpy Bum]

Ok - so you agree there is no conspiracy, and that you have been offering fairy tales, and baseless rhetoric in respect of EM's appoint of MM.

I've made my point - and will not be diverted into another mindless debate other than to say ,MM the grandad, and family man could well retire from coaching after winning a flag - and enjoy a quieter life as a Director of Coaching. All this is entirely plausible and possible.

But here's a surprise that you haven't thought of Grumpy. He may choose to continue coaching after 2011,if he doesn't win a flag, IF he, EM and CFC agree to release him from his contract (talk of suits is just crap) - but I doubt whether he will have the desire. So his comments on the Footy Show are plausible.

But so what -by then we will all be happy to see BUCKS take the reins after having served his 2 yr apprenticeship, and will thank MM for his contribution.

There you go - a perfectly plausible fit to all the elements of your story - and not a single conspiracy to be found.

Oh, plausible now!!! LOL

So now he is not retiring!!!

And EM was only joking when he threatened to sue him if he didn't fulfill his Director of coaching gig.

Shooting fish in a barrell or shooting yourself in the foot?

 

[Thommo 42]

ask Gubby

I don't need to asky Gubby, I'm 100% aware of all the facts.

Lethal was not pushed in any way shape or form. If he was, he would have said so - he is that type of bloke.