Autopsy Misfiring Dogs choke a top 4 spot v Gold Coast

[Proffessor]

Thank goodness one poster "understands the role better than most".

And all Oliver G's stats - actual recorded metrics - are irrelevant apparently!

Everyone else should stop posting, one person knows more than everyone else. Lol.

Just because something is recorded doesn’t make it right.

This being a classic example, where a recorded stat doesn't match up with easily accessible video evidence, as pointed out by me and others.

 

[BEaston]

I thought the Suns gave us a reminder/lesson in intensity and pressure. Their pressure on the ball, especially around stoppages was relentless. But really, their whole team played with effort and commitment.

If we had to be beaten by a team in this stretch then I've got some time for the Suns so OK. Hopefully the reminder a week before we play the Cats holds us in good stead for that game.

100%

Apart from maybe WC, there are no easy beats in this league. We can't turn up and expect to play at 50% intensity and win. It was back to what we were doing last year where we would turn off for quarters/halves/whole games at a time.

Such a shame after the week before against Adelaide where I thought our intensity and effort was the best it's been all season over a 4Q period.

Disappointing.

 

[hutchy31]

100%

Apart from maybe WC, there are no easy beats in this league. We can't turn up and expect to play at 50% intensity and win. It was back to what we were doing last year where we would turn off for quarters/halves/whole games at a time.

Such a shame after the week before against Adelaide where I thought our intensity and effort was the best it's been all season over a 4Q period.

Disappointing.

Yeah, felt a bit like that when watching. Not a great team to do it against either, as despite some of their faults they are a hard-working team with a strong ruck/midfield in the clearance and contested game and some hard running players around them.

Saturday night will be interesting, if we're able to be dispassionate about it (which I absolutely cannot be, but with five days to go can have a shot at it). English hasn't played great the past couple of weeks, but tbf he's not been terrible and it is two of the harder ruck match-ups in the comp with O'Brien and Witts. I'd hope he can stamp his authority on a team that doesn't really have a strong ruck division, and our midfield group should be relishing coming up against an opponent that have not really looked that great all year against anyone half decent.

Problem is it's Geelong, and they've had the wood over us for a fair while - at least in terms of win/loss. They also have to win, as looking at their fixture it's comfortably one of the hardest and going to 5-7 would make it pretty difficult to even make finals. Big, big game for both clubs.

 

[cherrypie]

By the way TO’B has copped a bit of flack for his kick up the guts late on Saturday night. Given that we were down by not much and time was running down quickly he didn’t have a lot of options. I was more disappointed in the lack of people presenting for him than his kick.

The behind came from a rebound and we only had two players inside defensive 50. Between the ball crossing the line and TOB running out of the square, there was only 7 seconds. No wonder people weren’t able to present so quickly.

The clock doesn’t run down until he leaves the square, just wait 10 seconds for us to set up and it’s fine, there’s no logical reason to rush that when we didn’t have a clear advantage at the contest.

 

[Dogs Rule]

I'm not going to have a crack at our backs.

We've basically turned around the Titanic this year with Jones and crew down there. We were leaking like a sieve last year and now we don't (as much).

Our backs have stood up for the most part but can't smash it every week and on those weeks it's up to our mids and especially out forwards to extract the digit and take some of the load. Win the clearances, win the contests and lock footy inside our 50 and importantly don't let it just waltz out of our forward 50. To me, I'm applying the heat to our forwards and lesser extent our mids this week.

Also, I think the club needs some sort of penalty to players for missing 'gettable' shots. Don't know what, but sometimes I doubt they fully appreciate how deflating constant inaccuracy is.

 

[Proffessor]

The behind came from a rebound and we only had two players inside defensive 50. Between the ball crossing the line and TOB running out of the square, there was only 7 seconds. No wonder people weren’t able to present so quickly.

The clock doesn’t run down until he leaves the square, just wait 10 seconds for us to set up and it’s fine, there’s no logical reason to rush that when we didn’t have a clear advantage at the contest.

7 seconds can be a long time, depending on the situation.

Remember the longer we take to move the ball the more time the opposition has to set up defensively.

We needed to react quicker in that situation.

 

[TiAn_]

It's difficult to judge who's playing on who. IIRC JO'D started on Lukosius and at various times all of TO'B, Jones and Gardner stood him. I dont think it was because Lukosisus was so great we couldn't find an answer. I think its just the way we set up our zone defence the very same reason he was able to get as many relatively easy goals as he did.

Yeah, agree with all of that. I was really just talking specifically to the stats with that comment. He seemed to be manning Lukosius at least in the immediate lead up to two goals, whereas the stats attributed him 1, so I’m not sure what the statistical marker is for when a defender is attributed an opponent goal. I don’t think his defending was egregious or anything.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Yeah, agree with all of that. I was really just talking specifically to the stats with that comment. He seemed to be manning Lukosius at least in the immediate lead up to two goals, whereas the stats attributed him 1, so I’m not sure what the statistical marker is for when a defender is attributed an opponent goal. I don’t think his defending was egregious or anything.

More observation than a criticism.

The improvement in our defensive half has been a big part of our 7 week run. Im not going to hang them out to dry after one poor game where it fell apart.

Especially because the only means I have to really judge them is from the narrow lens of a TV broadcast.

 

[TiAn_]

More observation than a criticism.

The improvement in our defensive half has been a big part of our 7 week run. Im not going to hang them out to dry after one poor game where it fell apart.

Especially because the only means I have to really judge them is from the narrow lens of a TV broadcast.

I don’t even think the defensive half is where it fell apart for us tbh, other than a couple of howlers from kick outs.

 

[hutchy31]

I'm not going to have a crack at our backs.

We've basically turned around the Titanic this year with Jones and crew down there. We were leaking like a sieve last year and now we don't (as much).

Our backs have stood up for the most part but can't smash it every week and on those weeks it's up to our mids and especially out forwards to extract the digit and take some of the load. Win the clearances, win the contests and lock footy inside our 50 and importantly don't let it just waltz out of our forward 50. To me, I'm applying the heat to our forwards and lesser extent our mids this week.

Also, I think the club needs some sort of penalty to players for missing 'gettable' shots. Don't know what, but sometimes I doubt they fully appreciate how deflating constant inaccuracy is.

Fair comment. We get frustrated because poor turnovers in the back line like a couple we saw on the weekend are almost automatic goals, but Naughton and a few others on/forward of the ball had nights to forget.

Of our 66 (!) inside 50s I believe 20 of them were in the second quarter for exactly two points. The suns had around half the inside 50s in that quarter and kicked 4.2. There’s the game right there, and it’d be a little unfair to lay that at the feet of the defense.

We’ve had some tough weather/ground conditions in some games, but have also had decent weather or been under the roof in several and only breached 100 points once in 11 games. While I agree with some of the points made here and in other threads re. defensive turnovers, missed assignments and/or team selection, there are more pressing issues offensively - not least of which is the continued inability to kick vaguely accurately at the big sticks by the guys paid to do exactly that.

 

[Outback Footy]

Our backline had a bad day it's that simple we handed them 4 goals from direct turnovers as i said bad kicking is bad football.. GC were the cleaner side in the conditions and thats why they won the game

They just looked cleaner all game. Less fumbles and second grabs. Perhaps they're more accustomed to the conditions and they maximised that advantage. Good on them.

In their history, I think this is a very important win for them. From past games and Stewie's pressers, he very clearly rates our midfield and contested game. It was almost their Everest to counter it and win. The fact that they were able to match us and prevail will be some cause for celebration in their ranks. I don't begrudge them as handy as a win would have been for us.

Horrible conditions and youve both summed it up. W cost ourselves the game, much like we cost ourselves in the first 2 through skill errors. If we were to lose a game this week was the perfect week to pick with most of our competition dropping games as well, so it didnt cost us significantly. Sure a win would have helped but it wasnt an 8 point loss, it was more a neutral place holding loss. And if its the message the boys need to hear to reinforce the importance of the pressure game, then Id rather it was the week before we play the handbags than most other weeks.

 

[SPower]

Just a few Comments.
I promise , I will not mention this again. Last and final time,
- Sick of us bombing high into the forward line and hope !!

- Aaron and Lobby did not have a commanding night in the air.


Recognising that early on , could they not take it upon themselves (or coaches) , we are off tonight, lets play defensive on Collins and Ballard, ensure they don't mark it and keep the ball locked In. Give Scott , Arty and Weightman chances off the deck.
FFS , I might be completely wrong tactically with being defensive, but apart from Jamarra the others were way off this week.

Finally , we need our "A" game and pressure at optimum level this week, otherwise no chance against the cats.
Only need to show the boys, the replay v Geelong , the night Libba had control of Dangerfiled and the Doggies were looking like a possible win. Pressure was unbelievable, only for Libba to get injured and Geelong ended with the W.
Cheers
Stephen

 

[Mr. Walker]

. We have a pretty benign run home all things considered, but only 2-3 losses in 12 games feels a little out of reach tbh.

When you say “benign” run home, is that because we play a number teams around GCS’ level on the ladder and so can mark those games down as certain wins?

 

[Mr. Walker]

By the way TO’B has copped a bit of flack for his kick up the guts late on Saturday night. Given that we were down by not much and time was running down quickly he didn’t have a lot of options. I was more disappointed in the lack of people presenting for him than his kick.

I would have thought the club would have a “ behind kickin, two points down, 30 seconds to play “ scenario set play that they train. Didn’t look like it to me. No set up so we had an outnumber, no taking the opposing ruckman wide, no plan at all. Either poor coaching, TOB went rogue, poor execution or GCS just too good.

 

[hutchy31]

When you say “benign” run home, is that because we play a number teams around GCS’ level on the ladder and so can mark those games down as certain wins?

Yeah, just to be clear I don’t have any real expectation that we will win those games

A top four team would win the vast majority of them though, so the opportunity is there. Whether we take it or not is up in the air.

 

[stefoid]

TOB has licence to take risk/reward kicks, I think that what the MC sees in him. He routinely makes kicks that Gardner or Keath would (rightly) not attempt.

I dunno. so many NQRs in our key defender stocks, I was amazed that JOD got a game so early, but maybe we can carry him through to finals?

 

[Some Idiot]

TOB has licence to take risk/reward kicks, I think that what the MC sees in him. He routinely makes kicks that Gardner or Keath would (rightly) not attempt.

I dunno. so many NQRs in our key defender stocks, I was amazed that JOD got a game so early, but maybe we can carry him through to finals?

He has a flatter kick which is more conducive to a short 45 degree pass I guess but he's unreliable and makes bad decisions frequently.

 

[Lex22]

From an on field performance perspective the match was lost between Q1 13’ straight after Naughton’s out on the full and HT.

You just cannot have 29 inside 50s for 1 goal and allow the opposition to kick 8 from 19. Once again we are giving up big streaks of goals against, if it hasn’t already it will cost us top 4…

Q1 13’ - HT

Inside 50s
WB: 29
GC: 19

Inside 50 Efficiency
WB: 21%
GC: 56%

Inside 50 Retention
WB: 34%
GC: 63%

Shots
WB: 6
GC: 11

Score

WB: 1.3 (9)
GC: 8.3 (51)

Clearances
WB: 19
GC: 15

Disposal Efficiency
WB: 68%
GC: 73%

Kicking Efficiency
WB: 62%
GC: 69%

The 21% v 56% Inside 50 efficiency is easily the biggest take from that, it’s where the game was lost. With a half decent fwd coach, things naturally tidy up a little and we win that (even though GC deserved it).

Certainly, not the worst loss (GC are as dangerous as any team when right) and maybe with all that travel & testing games, we probably had to drop one. To date, it’s been a hard fixture and 7-4 is a definite pass mark.

We went too tall and lacked an extra runner….Treloar is a huge in this week.

Needs to beat at least one of Geelong or Port and then NM before the bye. Can’t complain at 9-5 with what looks a favourable run home.

Given how it looked at stages, I reckon last year we give up in that last qtr and lose that easily. While the method is questionable at times, there’s plenty of heart in this group.

 

[_Mike_]

While the loss to GCS was frustrating the team is only 1-2 wins off a top 4 spot at the 1/2 way mark of the season. 7 wins at this point isn’t really a bad place. If they can win another 7-9 in the second 1/2 of the season they’re on target for a top 4 berth

 

[BEaston]

Gardner was definitely on him for 3 goals. Both marking contests were against Gardner and the volley from the goal square Gardner was right next to him.

Is it possible that the matchup statistics are counted for when the ball is turned over or from the last stoppage..?

Ie the volley on the goal square, had Gardner left his man to contest this ball? Was he actually defending two people and only went towards Luko after the the ball's trajectory was known?

I'm not saying he wasn't guarding him (although I'd certainly take CD's recorded events of the game as pretty close to 100%) but it could be a little bit more complex than just who is closest to who when a goal is kicked.

 

[BEaston]

I like almost all of this post. The only area I disagree with is the statement about O’Brien being much worse.

I seem to be bit more forgiving of TO’B than many here. Has he made a few mistakes? Sure, but his marking capabilities give him plenty of upside.

By the way TO’B has copped a bit of flack for his kick up the guts late on Saturday night. Given that we were down by not much and time was running down quickly he didn’t have a lot of options. I was more disappointed in the lack of people presenting for him than his kick.

You have to be the most biased poster on this site. It's not even close.

Everyone knows if it were Gardner you'd be roasting the s**t out of him for the same miskicks O'Brien did.

You even blame Gardner for not directing his spoils to teammates, which are infinitely more difficult to direct than a kick - never seen you say that a defender should have been marking the crumber more closely, no it's Gardner's fault for not spoiling 'correctly'. Just ridiculous.

The false pretense of impartiality you try to portray is insulting to the boards' intelligence.

 

[Doggy]

You have to be the biased poster on this site. It's not even close.

Everyone knows if it were Gardner you'd be roasting the s**t out of him for the same miskicks O'Brien did.

You even blame Gardner for not directing his spoils to teammates, which are infinitely more difficult to direct than a kick - never seen you say that a defender should have been marking the crumber, no it's Gardner's fault for not spoiling 'correctly'. Just ridiculous.

The false pretense of impartiality you try to portray is insulting to the boards' intelligence.

I mean, DMitchell is pretty bad with JUH

 

[perro_loco]

How?

Turnovers in the backline is already our biggest issue down there how does Naughton improve that when he can't hit a 20m set shot?

The guy is a massive presence, can intercept and outmuscle gorillas. Great teams are built from defense. that is the reason. his kicking is not as bad as you suggest either.

 

[Foxman98]

The guy is a massive presence, can intercept and outmuscle gorillas. Great teams are built from defense. that is the reason. his kicking is not as bad as you suggest either.

his kicking efficiency is 55% and he’s averaging 2.5 turnovers a game from limited touches up forward it’s really not that good

 

[maddog37]

his kicking efficiency is 55% and he’s averaging 2.5 turnovers a game from limited touches up forward it’s really not that good

You put Norty in the back half and you do not need the extra tall other than Jones.

Surround him with Dale, JJ, Ed, Doc and Caleb and all he has to do most of the time is farm it off after another towering intercept mark!!