Missing In Action - our forward line

[bigman]

We have lost another game because of this lack of firepower.

We need to find someone who can take an authoratative mark ahead of centre and someon who can kick a goal from greater than 40 metres out.

Perrie at best is a third stringer. He can take the occasional grab, but he makes so many mistakes. He would be better suited to the FP or coming off the bench for short spurts and to create a mismatch.

Welsh is out of form and playing in the wrong position for his height. Back to the twos.

TH needs to go back to defence for a few weeks. If Kennys achilles is playing up (even Ben Holland killed him in a footrace on every occasion last night) he could slip very nicely into CHB and Kenny could have a few weeks off to get over the problem.

Why did we not try going to the fat side last night. We did it twice for the night and scored goals on both occasions. Too often we kicked it wide to the pockets or to a space where there was three on one.

As WW said Mattner was awful. i am a big fan, but he looked slow. Was he injured or did he have the flu.

Why does JB get a game? His form has been below par in the games he has played. I like him as a footballer, but there appear ot be others at SANFL level who are playing better than him.

I hope Stevo can start showing some form for WWT, because we need him in the short term to give us a target.

Jericho also needs to be seriously considered. he played before his time last year, but given we have invested time into him ,he needs to play next week given his form in the SANFL.

I would also consider Watts. He too served his apprenticeship last year. he has the size to be a target down forward. He could possibly come off the bench in bursts.

I would also consider Ladhams. A genuine goalkicker and we need to see him play under Craig. He could alternate with Fergus.

Congratulations to Rutten, Hartie, Macca, Goodie, Tyson, Hudddo etc. You can only do so much. Eventually if you do not take your chances up forward you will get beaten.

 

[birdmanptr]

Just some thoughts.

Maybe put Trent to CHB and Ken to CHF Trent is quick enough to play there and give some run of half back like Chad Cornes does.Ken will stay at CHF and while he does not have to take 10 plus marks a game he can give a contest like Wayne Henwood did for Glenelg in 85 and 86 and keep the ball in the area,this will give our crumbers a chance to snap a few goals.

When Clarke comes back him and Biglands can ruck and Huddo can play up foward was only there for 5 minutes last night took a mark on a strong lead and kicked a goal it wont work every week but it might work more than it wont.

I remember leaving the 2002 prelim final thinking we were a key marking foward of playing in a grand final here we our 2005 and it looks like we are a key foward away from playing in the finals.We have Alan Stewart now lets hope he can develop some one like he did for port,as in thurstans and white and mahoney.

 

[bigman]

Just some thoughts.

Maybe put Trent to CHB and Ken to CHF Trent is quick enough to play there and give some run of half back like Chad Cornes does.Ken will stay at CHF and while he does not have to take 10 plus marks a game he can give a contest like Wayne Henwood did for Glenelg in 85 and 86 and keep the ball in the area,this will give our crumbers a chance to snap a few goals.

When Clarke comes back him and Biglands can ruck and Huddo can play up foward was only there for 5 minutes last night took a mark on a strong lead and kicked a goal it wont work every week but it might work more than it wont.

I remember leaving the 2002 prelim final thinking we were a key marking foward of playing in a grand final here we our 2005 and it looks like we are a key foward away from playing in the finals.We have Alan Stewart now lets hope he can develop some one like he did for port,as in thurstans and white and mahoney.

You amke some good points. One thing is for sure we need to change what we are doing now -because it is not working that effectively.

The kicking to the fat side is something we did not do that well last night.

 

[outback jack]

its been a while since the bigman has posted. Anyway, i think as i have said on other threads it is mainly the delivery and structure, as we were kicking to packs quite often last night. Didnt seem to be much of a plan to what we were doing last night.

 

[macca23]

The title of this thread is a bit of a misnomer, because it's not quite that the forward line is missing in action, but rather we haven't got a proper one in the first place.

Rucci summed it up well today in the 'tiser when he said we lack a key marking forward and a crumber up there as well.

The worst part of that is that IMO there is no immediate relief in sight. Stevo is barely firing in the SANFL, his namesake and Krueger are injured, and Watts and Meesen are not ready yet. Jericho is more of an assist rather than the main man.

As for a crumber, they're as scarce as hen's teeth as well. Ladhams could be that man if he could ever get his head straight, which looks unlikely.

On a positive note I really liked the look of Knights playing for WWT today. This kis can really play, and reads the fall of the ball beautifully. Excellent game for a league debut. A few more games like that and I can see him playing on a HFF for the Crows.

 

[outback jack]

The title of this thread is a bit of a misnomer, because it's not quite that the forward line is missing in action, but rather we haven't got a proper one in the first place.

Rucci summed it up well today in the 'tiser when he said we lack a key marking forward and a crumber up there as well.

The worst part of that is that IMO there is no immediate relief in sight. Stevo is barely firing in the SANFL, his namesake and Krueger are injured, and Watts and Meesen are not ready yet. Jericho is more of an assist rather than the main man.

As for a crumber, they're as scarce as hen's teeth as well. Ladhams could be that man if he could ever get his head straight, which looks unlikely.

On a positive note I really liked the look of Knights playing for WWT today. This kis can really play, and reads the fall of the ball beautifully. Excellent game for a league debut. A few more games like that and I can see him playing on a HFF for the Crows.

a crumber is scarce cause we havent drafted one. Just go to the NT and basically put four aborigines on the rookie list and say heres your opportunity. One will come good, just needs the chance. They are very underutilised imo.

A key forward is a worry though.....

Dont you really think if we set up well it doesnt really matter how good our forward line is. Like how many teams have guns? I think hawthorn have shown this. As we dont have someone who takes pack marks then kicking to packs like we did, didnt make sense. Think we need to be leaving room to play the leading style until or if we get that JB type.

 

[cro_Magnum]

There's a decent forward somewhere in the list, we just have to find him. We didn't think we had a full back then Rutten came out of the blue. We have to experiment a little as a player may be lowsy in one position but good in another. Try Burton (at least it will get him out of the midfield - forget his aerobic capacity, he's always burning the ball), Watts, maybe even Rutten if they can replace him down back. Thinking outside the square, even Smith may be worth a try - can't be any worse than what we had the other night. And surely there must be a half decent crumber somewhere -it's not that difficult a position to play

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

The title of this thread is a bit of a misnomer, because it's not quite that the forward line is missing in action, but rather we haven't got a proper one in the first place.

Rucci summed it up well today in the 'tiser when he said we lack a key marking forward and a crumber up there as well.

The worst part of that is that IMO there is no immediate relief in sight. Stevo is barely firing in the SANFL, his namesake and Krueger are injured, and Watts and Meesen are not ready yet. Jericho is more of an assist rather than the main man.

As for a crumber, they're as scarce as hen's teeth as well. Ladhams could be that man if he could ever get his head straight, which looks unlikely.

On a positive note I really liked the look of Knights playing for WWT today. This kis can really play, and reads the fall of the ball beautifully. Excellent game for a league debut. A few more games like that and I can see him playing on a HFF for the Crows.

Our kpp options, excluding 2004 draftees and players in Friday nights 22, are:

Bock -
Smith - Injured,
M Stevens - Has no form with the Eagles.
S Stevens - Injured
Kruger - suprise, suprise - injured,
Watts.

Come on down Fergus.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Has anyone heard what is the latest with Krueger - the website suggests 1 week injury??

 

[Alex99]

I would like to Rhett Biglands play as a stay at home CHF where he can have the ball bombed on top of his head about 55 out. If he doesn’t mark it the ball can be brought to the front where Jericho and Ladhams (yes, our best option as a small forward at present) will be ready. Ian Perrie should be a leading fall forward with Watts in a pocket and a resting rover.


The forward six

FF Watts Perrie Ladhams

HF Jericho Biglands Edwards

Over the next 2 years Watts and Biglands could eventually change spots or Meesen can step into the forward pocket with Watts as the stay at home Centre half forward and Ivan Maric back up ruckman to Ben Hudson if Rhett’s form wavers.

The club has to evolve to a point of being considered good enough for a premiership or a wooden spoon. None of this middle ground BS. Lets see some action move forward or backwards with the kids for now.

 

[crowsarethebest]

Forward 6 next week IMO
FF: Jericho Biglands Watts
HF: Macca Perrie Skippy

Our struture is very demented really.. no Bgi key forward that can rip games apart ATM. Hope to pick up some guns in the draft this year.

 

[outback jack]

I would like to Rhett Biglands play as a stay at home CHF where he can have the ball bombed on top of his head about 55 out. If he doesn’t mark it the ball can be brought to the front where Jericho and Ladhams (yes, our best option as a small forward at present) will be ready. Ian Perrie should be a leading fall forward with Watts in a pocket and a resting rover.


The forward six

FF Watts Perrie Ladhams

HF Jericho Biglands Edwards

Over the next 2 years Watts and Biglands could eventually change spots or Meesen can step into the forward pocket with Watts as the stay at home Centre half forward and Ivan Maric back up ruckman to Ben Hudson if Rhett’s form wavers.

The club has to evolve to a point of being considered good enough for a premiership or a wooden spoon. None of this middle ground BS. Lets see some action move forward or backwards with the kids for now.

biglands aint a CHF. And you dont want to be bombing to 55m out cause if biglands doesnt take the mark, which is going to happen 90% of the time it will come straight back down the corridor. Need to get it much deeper. I agree that mid-table stuff, which is what will happen this yr should be avoided, but ultimately as we decided to keep those older 3rd tier players last yr, which are better than our youngsters, so should be played. I can understand NC playing experienced players atm, cause we've won a lot of games and are a chance to make a real run at it.

We will probably come back to midtable soon, as we have some tough games and imo after this these third tie types should not be considered. We are rebuilding yet there are genuinely no youngsters in the 22. Bring in VB, watts, meeson, schuback, Jericho anyone else i cant think of and let them get a taste, with some of our gun players.

 

[Bockchoy67]

.
On a positive note I really liked the look of Knights playing for WWT today. This kis can really play, and reads the fall of the ball beautifully. Excellent game for a league debut. A few more games like that and I can see him playing on a HFF for the Crows.

I told you he was a steal at 56.

 

[Jerome]

The comments in todays paper from the Coach re: Welshy doesnt fill me with confidence. It sounds like there might not be any changes to the forward line this week.

 

[macca23]

The comments in todays paper from the Coach re: Welshy doesnt fill me with confidence. It sounds like there might not be any changes to the forward line this week.

Not necessarily no changes, but certainly that he wouldn't be dropping Welsh.

He has to make at least one change and that is to have a big body at FF with Welsh in a pocket. if he doesn't Welsh is in for a prick of a year.

Candidates are either or both the resting ruckman, Mark Stevens, Watts, Meesen, or Bock.

Not much in the offing is there?

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

biglands aint a CHF. And you dont want to be bombing to 55m out cause if biglands doesnt take the mark, which is going to happen 90% of the time it will come straight back down the corridor. Need to get it much deeper. I agree that mid-table stuff, which is what will happen this yr should be avoided, but ultimately as we decided to keep those older 3rd tier players last yr, which are better than our youngsters, so should be played. I can understand NC playing experienced players atm, cause we've won a lot of games and are a chance to make a real run at it.

We will probably come back to midtable soon, as we have some tough games and imo after this these third tie types should not be considered. We are rebuilding yet there are genuinely no youngsters in the 22. Bring in VB, watts, meeson, schuback, Jericho anyone else i cant think of and let them get a taste, with some of our gun players.

Watts Welsh McLeod
Goody Perrie Hent

 

[outback jack]

Not necessarily no changes, but certainly that he wouldn't be dropping Welsh.

He has to make at least one change and that is to have a big body at FF with Welsh in a pocket. if he doesn't Welsh is in for a prick of a year.

Candidates are either or both the resting ruckman, Mark Stevens, Watts, Meesen, or Bock.

Not much in the offing is there?

bock hasnt done alot wrong when hes played for us. Would need coaching but with his pace, could be a FF for us

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

biglands aint a CHF. And you dont want to be bombing to 55m out cause if biglands doesnt take the mark, which is going to happen 90% of the time it will come straight back down the corridor. Need to get it much deeper. I agree that mid-table stuff, which is what will happen this yr should be avoided, but ultimately as we decided to keep those older 3rd tier players last yr, which are better than our youngsters, so should be played. I can understand NC playing experienced players atm, cause we've won a lot of games and are a chance to make a real run at it.

We will probably come back to midtable soon, as we have some tough games and imo after this these third tie types should not be considered. We are rebuilding yet there are genuinely no youngsters in the 22. Bring in VB, watts, meeson, schuback, Jericho anyone else i cant think of and let them get a taste, with some of our gun players.

Good point jackie Boy. We are supposedly rebuilding yet our youngest player on Friday night was 21, Reilly and Rutten. Port played today with 1-18 yo, 2-19 yo's, 1 -20 yo, and 1-21 yo.

 

[Alex99]

bock hasnt done alot wrong when hes played for us. Would need coaching but with his pace, could be a FF for us

Are you watching the same ‘chicken man’ as the rest of us? He isn’t overly quick and hasn’t the most reliable shot at goal but he is a reliable defender with good hands and what promise he did show last year was at Centre Half Forward or back pocket. He would have to play CHF in the mould as Mathew Robran rather than a Warren Tredrea or Jonathan Brown as i doubt he would have the pace or endurance either of them has.

 

[outback jack]

Watts Welsh McLeod
Goody Perrie Hent

jack's realistic one, basically how it is but put the birdman there

B: Hart Rutten Bassett
HB: Torney McGregor Goodwin
C: Macca Roo Mattner
HF: Edwards Perrie Trent
F: Birdman Biglands welsh


or one way out there,(would never happen)

B Hart Bock Bassett
HB Torney Hentschel Goodwin
C: Macca Roo Mattner
HF: Rutten Perrie Edwards
F: Welsh McGregor Birdman
IR: Huddo Thommo Reilly

Might leave us a little vulnerable down back. But would atleast give us Rutten and mcGregor to aim at.

and the youngsters included when the season is gone

B: Johncock Bock Bassett
HB: Torney McGregor Goodwin
C: Jericho Roo Mattner
HF: Watts Hentschel Macca
F: Birdman Rutten Schuback
IR: Huddo Thommo Edwards
Bench: Biglands, Reilly, Skippy, Perrie

might have missed someone out there

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

jack's realistic one, basically how it is but put the birdman there

B: Hart Rutten Bassett
HB: Torney McGregor Goodwin
C: Macca Roo Mattner
HF: Edwards Perrie Trent
F: Birdman Biglands welsh


or one way out there,(would never happen)

B Hart Bock Bassett
HB Torney Hentschel Goodwin
C: Macca Roo Mattner
HF: Rutten Perrie Edwards
F: Welsh McGregor Birdman
IR: Huddo Thommo Reilly

Might leave us a little vulnerable down back. But would atleast give us Rutten and mcGregor to aim at.

and the youngsters included when the season is gone

B: Johncock Bock Bassett
HB: Torney McGregor Goodwin
C: Jericho Roo Mattner
HF: Watts Hentschel Macca
F: Birdman Rutten Schuback
IR: Huddo Thommo Edwards
Bench: Biglands, Reilly, Skippy, Perrie

might have missed someone out there

You can put your house, or in your case caravan , on Birdman playing on a wing. NC likes his physical endurance and can overlook all the clangers as long as Burton can run all day.

 

[Alex99]

You can put your house, or in your case caravan

His outback out house

 

[outback jack]

Are you watching the same ‘chicken man’ as the rest of us? He isn’t overly quick and hasn’t the most reliable shot at goal but he is a reliable defender with good hands and what promise he did show last year was at Centre Half Forward or back pocket. He would have to play CHF in the mould as Mathew Robran rather than a Warren Tredrea or Jonathan Brown as i doubt he would have the pace or endurance either of them has.

he is quicker than hentschel and rutten, there is something to work with i reckon. He only got better when he came in last yr. This yr he is apparently 10kg heavier so may as well see what he can do.

 

[Jerome]

Not much in the offing is there?

No, not too many of our tall forward options played well in the SANFL this weekend. There is very little pressure on the Crows players.

I keep thinking back to the lead up to Round One. I really wanted to see some new players in the team and I wish we had of taken a chance on Messan or someone new up forward. Opposition sides have worked out the Perrie, Welsh, Hentschel combo.

Somthing else I have thought of...someone mentioned that Ian Perrie seems to have forgotten the goal kicking routine that Jars set up for him. Who is our forward line coach? Who is in charge of developing our KPP's?

I seem to recall there was some concern that we don't have a KPP as part of the coaching panel. I wonder if not having a proven KPP player on the coaching staff is hindering the development of our young talls.
Some of them are not coming on in the way that we would like.

Perhaps its time to get in a part time KPP coach. For example, if we can get Mick Redden to come down from the country and coach the ruckmen, why cant we get someone in part time to smarten up the KPP's? Martin Leslie or Peter Caven for example.

 

[Alex99]

he is quicker than hentschel and rutten, there is something to work with i reckon. He only got better when he came in last yr. This yr he is apparently 10kg heavier so may as well see what he can do.

Bingo, that’s why Rutten especially was never given a go at fall forward and I highly doubt that Bock is quicker (Mentally and physically) than Trent Hentschel. As unfortunate as it is for Nathan Bock, the only way NB is going to succussed at AFL level is if he plays as a defender and we have an abundance of tall defender ATM.

A fall forward needs to have quick reaction times to make that instant lead, something Nathan Bock doesn’t have and something that is going to hold Fergus Watts back as well. Luke Jericho (Same as Modra) has very fast reaction time as would be a very good option as a one out fast leading forward.

If Nathan Bock was a genion option for an AFL fall forward spot wouldn’t you have thought that the WWT would have tried his as a fall forward at least once this season. I have seen 5 of their 7 games and not once as he ventured down to the attacking 50 m goal square this season. This gives me a lot of hope in suggesting NB as a long term option to kick some goals.