Bumped Missing Tackles - Missing Targets

[Yoda_]

So, where do I start?

How many times do we allow opposition players to get there arms free? Hawthorn managed to get a kick away forward a handball to a team mate far to easily, and it really, really pissed me off.

To many goals were kicked from 'missed tackles', to many clearances from 'missed tackles'.

And it isnt the young guys like Heppel, it is senior experienced guys like Howlett, Jetta, Lonergan who have been in the system for a couple of pre seasons now.

As for out foot skills, they are atrocious. We need players who can kick, we need footskills, scrap the pace issue, pay some attention to blokes who can kick.

Think our list is in far worse position than even the coaching panel realise p).

 

[EVERLAST]

These two components are certainly killing us. We could have a gun recruit, but if we can't hit him on a lead or down the field, may as well pack up our bat and ball and go home.

This coming week will be a clinic for us on what a genuine side looks like and plays.

 

[AtomicBlonde]

So, where do I start?

How many times do we allow opposition players to get there arms free? Hawthorn managed to get a kick away forward a handball to a team mate far to easily, and it really, really pissed me off.

To many goals were kicked from 'missed tackles', to many clearances from 'missed tackles'.

And it isnt the young guys like Heppel, it is senior experienced guys like Howlett, Jetta, Lonergan who have been in the system for a couple of pre seasons now.

As for out foot skills, they are atrocious. We need players who can kick, we need footskills, scrap the pace issue, pay some attention to blokes who can kick.

Think our list is in far worse position than even the coaching panel realise p).

I think it has a lot to do with confidence though. These things creep into our game whenever we are in a funk, like we are now. Go back to the WB or St.Kilda games and we were all over them like pitbulls on poodles.

Having said that, how many genuinely skillful players do we have out on the park atm?

Slightly OT. Look at what Bachar is doing at Richmond after being given a chance to make his place in the side. He was clearly a great kick but he has taken the next step and being confident in his place has probably played a big part in that.

 

[Yoda_]

I think it has a lot to do with confidence though. These things creep into our game whenever we are in a funk, like we are now. Go back to the WB or St.Kilda games and we were all over them like pitbulls on poodles.

Don't try and sugar coat the situation, when we were 'on' we had two, three four guys going in to tackle, same thing happened on Friday night, Sam Mitchell was still able to break the arms free and dish a handball off.

Has happened most of the year to be honest, even when we were winning it happened, just not as glaringly obvious as what it is now.

Having said that, how many genuinely skillful players do we have out on the park atm?

This is my point, we simply do not have skillful players on our list. Even the younger guys I have question marks over. Silverlock, T.Slattery, Colyer just some of the guys.

 

[AtomicBlonde]

Don't try and sugar coat the situation, when we were 'on' we had two, three four guys going in to tackle, same thing happened on Friday night, Sam Mitchell was still able to break the arms free and dish a handball off.

Has happened most of the year to be honest, even when we were winning it happened, just not as glaringly obvious as what it is now.



This is my point, we simply do not have skillful players on our list. Even the younger guys I have question marks over. Silverlock, T.Slattery, Colyer just some of the guys.

Wasn't trying to but IMO, a team low on confidence will drop their resolves in almost every area of the game. Your highlighted problem was just one of them. Of course we have a pretty thin list for talent and skill and strength and smarts and...and...

Sam Mitchell is a physically strong bloke, we don't have the bigger bodied players to do much at all to him.

 

[Yoda_]

Wasn't trying to but IMO, a team low on confidence will drop their resolves in almost every area of the game. Your highlighted problem was just one of them. Of course we have a pretty thin list for talent and skill and strength and smarts and...and...

Sam Mitchell is a physically strong bloke, we don't have the bigger bodied players to do much at all to him.

This is just it though, you often see a small bloke tackle a bog bloke and make them stick, often we let the Hawks guys through.

 

[Colin D'Cops]

'Missing Run' not included HFF? Interesting.. I thought the Hawks on Fri night especially, absolutely cut us up around the ground. They always seemed to have double the amount of players at the fall of the ball compared to us.

I guess what Friday night proved to me, at least, is that we really need to get a few more with pace into the side. Watson, Hocking, Howlett & Lonergan are all above average inside mids, no problems in that department. But Jetta & Zaharakis are pretty much the only mids that can break the lines and make things happen. They need some support and I think the inclusions of Colyer and Reimers may give us that little bit of spark we lacked last week.

 

[Yoda_]

'Missing Run' not included HFF? Interesting.. I thought the Hawks on Fri night especially, absolutely cut us up around the ground. They always seemed to have double the amount of players at the fall of the ball compared to us.

I guess what Friday night proved to me, at least, is that we really need to get a few more with pace into the side. Watson, Hocking, Howlett & Lonergan are all above average inside mids, no problems in that department. But Jetta & Zaharakis are pretty much the only mids that can break the lines and make things happen. They need some support and I think the inclusions of Colyer and Reimers may give us that little bit of spark we lacked last week.

I actually don't think we need to have 'pace'. Collingwood dont have speed as a weaon, Geelong havent relied on it, hell even the Bulldogs skills took precedence over speed.

When skills are hitting targets, then you are prepared to work harder as you feel more confident your team mate is going to hit you lace out. Yes every side needs some pacy players, we have them, we don't need more pace, do we? When Dempsey and Winderlich return, then we will see that line breaking again.

 

[Colin D'Cops]

I actually don't think we need to have 'pace'. Collingwood dont have speed as a weaon, Geelong havent relied on it, hell even the Bulldogs skills took precedence over speed.

When skills are hitting targets, then you are prepared to work harder as you feel more confident your team mate is going to hit you lace out. Yes every side needs some pacy players, we have them, we don't need more pace, do we? When Dempsey and Winderlich return, then we will see that line breaking again.

Collingwood have Thomas, Sidebottom & Krakouer who can break the lines in the midfield. Davis & and even O'Brien can break lines off half back. They can quickly turn defence into attack at pretty much the flick of a switch. Certainly skills are a major component to this no doubt, but pace/explosiveness is required to burn off/evade a player or two per forward thrust.

Dempsey and Winderlich will certainly boost our stocks in this department, but whilst they are out I see no reason for players such as Reimers or Colyer not to be given opportunities in the seniors (especially given recent VFL form).

 

[Phone]

pace is a bit over-rated. We look so slow because we do shocking kicks inside 50 where a loose man gets it and it just falls into place for the other team. No doubt dumping one of the rucks (hille for me) and getting another pacey guy in perhaps the back-line or on the wing will help that but I think the a bigger problem is a lack of patience.

We get the ball and we either do a shit kick straight away or move the ball fast for awhile...and then do a shit kick. You look at Hawthorn, they're very patient, if they have to do a lot of short kicking until something opens up they'll do it. We don't even get ourselves in a position where we see nothing is happening. We just get it and thump it to the pack.

And yeah I saw like 3-4 goals that could have been nipped in the bud with a strong tackle. Sadly that's why Welsh and McVeigh will survive. For better or worse they have strong bodies that will usually do the tackle.

 

[caboose]

I guess what Friday night proved to me, at least, is that we really need to get a few more with pace into the side. Watson, Hocking, Howlett & Lonergan are all above average inside mids, no problems in that department. But Jetta & Zaharakis are pretty much the only mids that can break the lines and make things happen.

This.

And it's what makes Knights' atrocious handling of Lovett the most catastrophic piece of player management we'll probably see at Essendon in a generation.

Mind you, a side's pace or lack of it looks a lot worse when they're losing. When they start winning again, they never look anywhere near as slow.

 

[Yoda_]

Collingwood have Thomas, Sidebottom & Krakouer who can break the lines in the midfield. Davis & and even O'Brien can break lines off half back. They can quickly turn defence into attack at pretty much the flick of a switch. Certainly skills are a major component to this no doubt, but pace/explosiveness is required to burn off/evade a player or two per forward thrust.

Dempsey and Winderlich will certainly boost our stocks in this department, but whilst they are out I see no reason for players such as Reimers or Colyer not to be given opportunities in the seniors (especially given recent VFL form).

When looking at replacements, I was hoping for a Browne or even a Hibberd to come in and play the Dempsey role, but due to more injuries, looks like they have been forced to play other roles (lock down small defender).

As for Winderlich, It looks like we are still trying to find that mid sized deffensive forward, Monfries, pfft..

As for Collingwood, I don't actually think Thomas is 'lightning' quick, above average? yes, but he is a smart player. Sidebottom is not even quick either. Whilst Krakouer is quick, yes, but his skills are sublime and knows when to go, and when not to 'go'. He is a line breaker, but none more so than Didak, Pendlebury, Swan, etc.

 

[Phone]

This.

And it's what makes Knights' atrocious handling of Lovett the most catastrophic piece of player management we'll probably see at Essendon in a generation.

Mind you, a side's pace or lack of it looks a lot worse when they're losing. When they start winning again, they never look anywhere near as slow.

uh....

 

[ant555]

Collingwood have Thomas, Sidebottom & Krakouer who can break the lines in the midfield. Davis & and even O'Brien can break lines off half back. They can quickly turn defence into attack at pretty much the flick of a switch. Certainly skills are a major component to this no doubt, but pace/explosiveness is required to burn off/evade a player or two per forward thrust.

Dempsey and Winderlich will certainly boost our stocks in this department, but whilst they are out I see no reason for players such as Reimers or Colyer not to be given opportunities in the seniors (especially given recent VFL form).

Rusty is not quick. He is smart and gets into space.
The Hawks are not super quick either, like Collingwood they react early and run to space giving the illusion that they are quicker than us as we are chasing them.
Their blokes take off and run as soon as they win clear possessions, sometimes before, our blokes do not, they simply amble over to pick up their opponent.

We do need someone to step up in the pace department but we also need to work much harder and use the ball better.


As for the OP and tackling, maybe we need a full time tackling coach as it is no surprise our best tackler, Hocking, did his own work with the wrestling coach we had down pre season a couple of times 3 or so seasons ago.

 

[ant555]

This.

And it's what makes Knights' atrocious handling of Lovett the most catastrophic piece of player management we'll probably see at Essendon in a generation.

Mind you, a side's pace or lack of it looks a lot worse when they're losing. When they start winning again, they never look anywhere near as slow.

What a load of total bullshit !!!
Worked out well for the Saints as well did it not.
Knights gave Lovett a million chances but when a player keeps missing training, continues to **** up off the ground and has the whole playing group wanting him out of the club then it is time to go.

To say Knights handled things with Lovett atrociously show a complete lack of knowledge or understanding of what happened leading up to him being moved on.
Knights met with him every week to try and keep him on track but they guy is a total tool who was not prepared to work hard enough to get it done and the players where not about to be happy with a bloke continually dodging the hard work and expecting a game every week !

 

[caboose]

What a load of total bullshit !!!
Worked out well for the Saints as well did it not.
Knights gave Lovett a million chances but when a player keeps missing training, continues to **** up off the ground and has the whole playing group wanting him out of the club then it is time to go.

To say Knights handled things with Lovett atrociously show a complete lack of knowledge or understanding of what happened leading up to him being moved on.
Knights met with him every week to try and keep him on track but they guy is a total tool who was not prepared to work hard enough to get it done and the players where not about to be happy with a bloke continually dodging the hard work and expecting a game every week !

Give me a break.

What on earth was the use of those meetings when Lovett ended up getting used as trade bait behind his back in 2008?

He showed Knights precisely what he thought of him with his superlative season in 2009, before then giving him the bird and walking out. Which was a disaster for both parties, unfortunately.

He is precisely the player we most need now - do you not agree?

 

[Phone]

And he and we have no-one to blame but himself.

 

[caboose]

Ever heard of the chicken and the egg, though?

Sure, he wasn't a saint (no pun intended) - but do you think it was all one way?

And why was he so much more of a tool (allegedly) under Knights than he had been before? Do you reckon the two things were unrelated?

 

[ant555]

Give me a break.

What on earth was the use of those meetings when Lovett ended up getting used as trade bait behind his back in 2008?

He showed Knights precisely what he thought of him with his superlative season in 2009, before then giving him the bird and walking out. Which was a disaster for both parties, unfortunately.

He is precisely the player we most need now - do you not agree?

Fine if you do not want to believe the facts then don't. Answer me this if it was just Knights then why did the players all jack up and send the leadership group to the coach to do something about it ?
He was offered for trade as the club was sick of him in 2008 but he had a year to go on is contract. He did not walk out, how do you walk out of a club that does not want you ?
The point of the meetings where to get the penny to drop, it did not.

Is he the player we need now, well the point is mute as he continued to **** up despite changing clubs and being given a new chance.
Yes he was ok in 2009 averaging 20 disposals but he still had periods where he stood on the wing with no defense at all and despite his pace he had bugger all tackles most weeks and only ran in one direction.
I doubt very much if he would fit into playing forward press all that well.

The bloke is an arse of a person who wasted his talent by not working hard enough and thinking he was some sort of god off the field.

We do not need down hill skiers who only work one way and can not stay out of trouble off the field. We need leadership and players willing to have a crack and are able to understand how to play smart team footy. Not individuals with inflated opinions of themselves !

 

[Duckworth]

Give me a break.

What on earth was the use of those meetings when Lovett ended up getting used as trade bait behind his back in 2008?

He showed Knights precisely what he thought of him with his superlative season in 2009, before then giving him the bird and walking out. Which was a disaster for both parties, unfortunately.

He is precisely the player we most need now - do you not agree?

You do know that Lovett was sacked by the Saints? He is currently not playing football. He sure showed Knights with that one.

 

[ant555]

Ever heard of the chicken and the egg, though?

Sure, he wasn't a saint (no pun intended) - but do you think it was all one way?

And why was he so much more of a tool (allegedly) under Knights than he had been before? Do you reckon the two things were unrelated?

He was a tool before Knights as well, as i said it was not only the coach who had enough, it was everyone at the club who had given him chance after chance after chance after chance.
After having the chances shoved back in your face many times you tend to know what the real problem is.

The bloke stuffed up under Sheedy and was dropped a few times for it, he stuffed up under Knights and he stuffed up within 5 minutes under Lyon so do not keep on pushing the Knights caused his issue wagon. It is simply not true. The bloke had more chances than John Farnham comebacks.

 

[caboose]

Fine if you do not want to believe the facts then don't. Answer me this if it was just Knights then why did the players all jack up and send the leadership group to the coach to do something about it ?

That feeds into the question I've just asked of Phone.

Ask yourself how and where this began. Was it all Lovett's fault, or did other people at the club piss him off just as much as he did them?

Of course people lose patience with a bloke if he keeps screwing up. But why did he keep screwing up? And would this sort of thing happened under Bomber at Geelong, or would the kind of thing that was done to Stevie J down there have happened instead?

And how on earth did anyone possibly think that attempting to ship him off (without even raising the issue with him first, and then bungling the whole thing horribly) in 2008 was going to make the situation any better?

There are a million questions still hanging here. To say it's entirely and completely due to Lovett is ridiculous, frankly.

 

[caboose]

You do know that Lovett was sacked by the Saints? He is currently not playing football. He sure showed Knights with that one.

Thanks for that, Sherlock.

So glad you set me straight - I wouldn't have known any of that otherwise.

 

[SirJimi05]

I can't believe what I'm reading. Are you ok, Caboose?

 

[caboose]

I can't believe what I'm reading. Are you ok, Caboose?

I'm fine. How are you?

And are you ever going to respond to Godzke on the other thread, btw?